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The Dangerous Mythology Of American Hope

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posted on Jan, 23 2009 @ 03:15 PM
The bad part about hope is when it is dashed.

I've been feeling for the longest time that it really wouldn't matter who won the electin, since whoever won would face the same intractable problems. It's might have been better for McCain (no, I'm not a republicrat) to win, as the pain of collapse would have been sharper but quicker, allowing rebuilding and true change to occur.

But too many people think that somehow historic equates with good solutions for massive problems, that somehow the magic of the moment and the man will make everything better. But the system's too far gone: economic momentum down is unlikely to be stopped because the financiers and economics don't seem to understand (or perhaps they do) that we have entered a new paradigm: old-school capitalism is gone for good unless we regress to the 19th century. But we've entered a phase I call mature capitalism, where the old-fashioned way of raising capital is no longer socially acceptable or effective: you can't rip off and enslave the natives and exploit their resources in the same way as the early capitalists did; the forests, fish stocks, game herds have been reduced to unexploitable numbers and need time to rebuild. Early capitalism traded time and reserves for money now and used up every resource faster than it could be regenerated. For the past few years they've been using up the accumulated wealth of this country (home and corporate equity) faster than it could be regenerated. Everything's gone now. We no longer have that option, and the bills are due today.

So when April and May roll around and people discover than things are worse, not better, they will lose that hope and be the worse for it. It won't be Obama's fault, probably; I'd like to believe he's honestly trying to make things better and not just trying to restore the old ways, but he's hamstrung by a broken financial system, and sheer economic inertia. April and May results are already written into the economic books and nothing much will alter them , much less reverse them.

By that time people will be truly desperate and will need results, not hopes of results, because they won't have the time to wait for a hopeful future.

False hope is the very worst kind, and false hope, I think, is what Obama represents, not realistic hope based on facts.

posted on Jan, 23 2009 @ 03:43 PM
reply to post by apacheman

What are the April and May results?

posted on Jan, 23 2009 @ 03:44 PM
reply to post by

The true opposite of hope is despair and I find hope to be preferable to despair. Nothing is possible with despair but anything is possible with hope.

If in fact hope is being used as a tool for evil, evil could cause its own destruction with its use. Hope has a way of washing away fear and evil in its wake.

Hope exists independent of any man or any group and even if used in a wrongful manner can still only lead to a positive result. Hope results in positive outcomes irregardless of the intent.

Perhaps you meant false hope which does not exist as no hope can be false?

posted on Jan, 23 2009 @ 03:58 PM
reply to post by Blaine91555

How can hope wash away fear?
It can maybe cover the fear but it can NOT make it go away! To make it go away you have to CHANGE something...and the only way to do(!) this is to DO something.
Reread my posts in this thread for further explaination.

Besides...when you constantly hope for change than you are constantly aware of the problem(s) but you are NOT THINKING about it and you are not DOING something about it aswell! And either your consciousness or your subconsciousness KNOWS THAT!
Hope is a way to bull#ing yourself! You trick yourself with hope to believe that sometimes (without me doing anything about it) things will go better.


It amazes me everytime!
And I wonder how much double-thinking people must be doing to believe that hope changes anything...

[edit on 23/1/2009 by zolom]

posted on Jan, 23 2009 @ 03:59 PM
Nothing is more dangerous then fear. Fear is part of the flight or fight responce, it comes from the most primal parts of the brain. Fear can often save us, but at what cost? Hope on the other hand comes from a higher place to inspire. It provides just that glimmer of light that calms our fear of what is beyond in the inky darkness.

Anyway, Sure the same band is playing the same instruments but the Conductor is different and I would much rather listen to a melody of hope then to a dirge of fear.

posted on Jan, 23 2009 @ 04:05 PM
reply to post by unknown known

With the dismal Xmas retail results, many REITs, building owners, mall owners, etc., will be unable to refinance their debt in the manner they are used to and will go into default, putting further pressure on the banks and financial systems in January. This will suck more non-existent dollars into the black hole of Wall Street, away from the real economy. More jobs will be lost and more businesses dislocated.

By February, mid-level suppliers will begin to go into bankruptcies, and more commercial paper will go into default as a result of the contracting economy. Pressure will increase on government services, requiring more outlays of money for unemployment, welfare,etc. By this time the state and federal governments should be noting a vastly reduced flow of paid income taxes, and nonexistent corporate taxes. If they are still talking about a "house mortgages problem" it's done: the root problem is a jobs problem. And jobs will continue to disappear at an accelerating rate for the next few months.

By April, most state governments and the feds will find that instead of tax payment checks, they will receive requests for extensions to pay, as few will have the cash on hand to pay their taxes, and fewer still will be inclined to see their money go to the banking industry, especially if states issue I.O.U.s instead of refund or unemployment checks, this will be the citizen equivalent.

So by May, the cash flow problem will be severe and there'll be little if any improvement. No matter what Obama does, the money can't flow to where it needs to go fast enough to prevent this, and by that time people won't want to hear anymore about how great it is going to be sometime in the fall: they'll need rent and food money now.

So that's what April and May will look like if everything goes well; if there's another Katrina-like natural disaster or more damaging floods or on nearly anything that stretches resources, well...things could fall apart lots faster.

posted on Jan, 23 2009 @ 04:09 PM
reply to post by zolom

Dude, you remind me of a booger that won't flick.

You swim alongside the OP and attack every response.
Like a parasitic Remora fish protected by a Shark.

Why don't you either let the OP respond, start your own thread or better yet.....STFU.


[edit on 23-1-2009 by kinda kurious]

posted on Jan, 23 2009 @ 04:16 PM

Originally posted by zolom
reply to post by Blaine91555

How can hope wash away fear?
It can maybe cover the fear but it can NOT make it go away! To make it go away you have to CHANGE something...and the only way to do(!) this is to DO something.

Hope is the catalyst that leads to change. You have answered your own question.

posted on Jan, 23 2009 @ 04:22 PM
Very well written. S&F! I truly enjoyed your description of our surroundings.
I agree on certain points. I think fear and hope can both be used for good depending on how they are implemented. I also think that hope is a motivating cog that turns the wheels of enlightenment and freedom. Fear can move people to become better but does not give them the necessary lubrication to turn the bigger cogs of this machine we call life. I have lived life in despair and hope was the possibility of something better that motivated me regardless of whether it was a false premise to stand on. Unfortunately hope is masquerading in the place of fear and control as politics and government are concerned. Hope is necessary, but from a realistic perspective of what can be changed and hoped for.

Without hope we would be a doomed race from the beginning. Change is a very attainable factor. Though it may not be a factor in my generation or the next. It is attainable but sadly times epic battle with change has proven change to be the defeated party for now. Only through pain and experience do we really learn and only upon standing on the brink of extinction we might decide with a full heart to change. We are a lazy and procrastinating species. Your opinion of hope is very well defined and termed and quite to the point as this veil of lies grows thicker with mold and rust further binding it closed. The farther we erode the harder we will have to try to fix ourselves but the harder we try the more that experience of pain and suffering teaches us, further setting us in a acknowledged state of enlightenment from which we free our self. Simply put, pain is the best teacher of all and some just haven't suffered enough to learn what is necessary.

And these fear tactics have been turned from fear to hope. I think you are 100% right when you say the orchestra is just playing a different tune.

Those among the herd do not understand what is happening and refuse to question their own beliefs further bringing their demise and welding the hinges on their cell shut. Many people can't deal with the truth and don't want to know the pain associated with it. Unfortunately truth can be painful but it is still truth. Much is to come in our time I believe and much of it will be extremely painful but by approaching that pain with a realistic and understanding viewpoint we can separate ourselves in an aspect that ensures our survival from doom to transfiguration and enlightenment.

I hope for the best and can only change myself. I question myself and everything around me and am willing to accept the fact that everything I think I know could be wrong. By doing this I do not set stakes and do not allow my cell door to be welded closed to any truth that might quietly float by. By this means me and others can truly free their self. For the sheep to transform into something entirely different the route to start is to question "Everything".

Who knows how it will come about or if it will. Time will tell as it always does.

[edit on 23-1-2009 by N3krostatic]

posted on Jan, 23 2009 @ 04:43 PM

posted on Jan, 23 2009 @ 04:46 PM
@kinda kurious
1. You havent brought in a single argument
2. My posts are on topic and always contain my views and most of the time they are specific responses to specific topics I'd like to talk about.
3. You are right, I shouldn't have attacked you. For me that would have been possible if you would have adressed any of the OPs arguments, but instead you accused him of beeing a charlatan with NO background but his writing-style (LOL)
To make it are ignored!

You mean the hope that "something could change" (if you do something about it)?
Or to examine if there even is the possibility for "change"?
Like when you've got a broken table and you go get your tools/glue and hope you can fix it (And after this, hope that it stays together)?

If yes then I agree. But this is not the hope I'm (And I guess the OP is?) talking about. I'm talking about the kind of hope that arouses from Obama. The hope that everything will get better now.
Like when you work like a lazybone and hope that you will get more money someday.

The hope that has been thrown onto the masses for the last 3/4 year.
The hope that lets one think: "Oh now I don't have to worry anymore, Obama will do it".
Or the hope of a black man who thinks: "Now since there is a black president I can become a rich and popular man too."
And he ineed CAN, but it won't be due to a black president but to his OWN DOING!

If you disagree, please elaborate.

posted on Jan, 23 2009 @ 04:51 PM
link reading your words...your use of them was refreshing.

Yet, I must add, that the opposite of hope is despair, and from despair, fear is born. I do not, and have mentioned in several posts earlier this week hold to the thoughts that the HOPEFUL CHANGE will be what most Americans were seeking.

Change will come, but not through elected governmental officials....only through ourselves. That is accomplished by living each second of each hour of each day of each week of each year, IN THE NOW and making our own changes as we progress in our lives.

Hope can be a myth in this regard, as you have stated.



posted on Jan, 23 2009 @ 04:54 PM
Hope and a dime and you can't get a cup of coffee!

Definition of hope: the feeling that what is wanted can be had or that events will turn out well.

A proverb goes like this:

"You cannot make straight that which is crooked."

Hope coming from a divine source can lead to an actual reality. Transplanting false hope to manipulate the masses without any real substance = false illusion. How can an individual create any hope that is real? How much power can one person actually have? Common sense is required.

If it is not real hope then it is false hope, and one that can be used by deviate people to manipulate the gullible masses. How well did this work in history with its; charismatic, save the world leaders?

Thank God for a higher power.

posted on Jan, 23 2009 @ 05:05 PM
reply to post by zolom

Yes, I think you are seeing it. I'll use the example of the simple act of sitting in a chair. Both hope and faith come into play every time we sit in one.

We hope it will hold us and that translates into the faith that allows us to sit in it without fear.

Without hope we would never take an action to begin with. The literal opposite of hope is despair. When we have despair, we have no faith, no hope and we will not even take the first step. Hope is the catalyst.

posted on Jan, 23 2009 @ 05:20 PM
Call me a jerk, call me a twit, call me a beefwitted footlicker, I really don't care, but 'hope' will accomplish nothing. If people in this country want to change anything, we all, collectively, need to learn to stop relying on others (especially the government) and do it for ourselves. The only thing 'hope' will accomplish is furthering the time we spend on our rounded posteriors, waiting for that magical handout that will fix everything. You want that, build a time machine and go live in the Soviet Union, remember how well that turned out? That's even if anyone bothers to read history anymore...oh that's right, I'm in America, of course no one does. Old school is right, the same orchestra is playing, they just changed the rhythm and the beat, but the undercurrent of the melody (the riff if your a rocker), is essentially the same.
I am absolutely furious, not at Obama, I never had any expectations for him anyway (or the others, save Ron Paul), no, I'm furious at the American people. We've had it so good for so long, we forgot that life is actually hard work. Now that times are tough, rather than rolling up the sleeves and forging ahead, we whine like children at the dinner table when the vegetables are scooped onto our plate, wondering aloud why we can't have ice cream instead. Shame on us, for being lazy, ignorant, and ill informed. All of our problems are OUR OWN FAULT. Because we were too lazy to pay attention and do anything about it.

posted on Jan, 23 2009 @ 05:26 PM
We create our own realities - whether it be hope or cynicism. The more people that buy into that reality the stronger the coherence of that realiy.

posted on Jan, 23 2009 @ 05:27 PM

Originally posted by kinda kurious
your intimate understanding of the human psyche seems to fall short.

My understanding that the "average" person is easily manipulated through compelling imagery and strong emotional messaging? Please elucidate as to how I fell short in such a base comprehension.

Didn’t you “hope” to impart your beliefs / observations on others by starting this thread?

I had "hoped" that I would not be compelled to write such a thread.

I had "hoped" that this eloquent new leader would get to real work and eschew manipulative rhetoric.

I had "hoped", long ago, that the citizenry would awake from its mental slumber and reject the system offered.

I had "hoped", even longer ago, that we who call our selves conspiracy theorists would not encounter material, events, and circumstances that inspire theorizing about conspiracies.

I see through this veiled guise by a charlatan masquerading as a virtuous and wise teacher simply as yet another attack on our new president through the use of fancy hyperbole.

Then you have not taken the time to really examine my presentation, or my body of work here on this web site. My "attack" has nothing to do with the person who swore the oath given to him by what looked like a stumbling nervous school boy. I'm not political. In fact I've demonstrated distinct anti-political tendencies.

The "attack", as you apparently defensively see it, is not on the current person du-jur occupying the office of President, but on the entrenched system. My focus is not on the apparent policies of the new faces in Washington, but on the long-term currents of manipulation and the direction in which such influences seek to carry us.

posted on Jan, 23 2009 @ 05:43 PM
Most non-Americans can't understand the concept of hope and it's amazing to see all of these anti-American people here get so jealous of American hope.

It was America's capacity for hope that:

1. Created a great free country (USA)
2. Got us through a Great Depression
3. Helped us defeat tyranny spreading in Europe
4. Win WWI
5. Win WWII
6. Help free countless people from oppression through out the world.
7. etc.

You should watch and learn from the USA and take the same critical look at your own Countries gov's.

posted on Jan, 23 2009 @ 05:50 PM
There's going to be a lot of 'disgruntled' Americans about a year from now when they start to figure out Obama's no different than rest of 'em ...

If he were 'different' he'd never have been allowed to achieve the presidency.

When everybody who 'bought' into Obama's message of 'hope' starts to catch on that he's just the same it's not going to be very pretty at all !

posted on Jan, 23 2009 @ 05:57 PM
reply to post by SpecAgentDW

We need to press on and put up with the pain as it teaches us.
And this is not a one liner.

[edit on 23-1-2009 by N3krostatic]

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