The Dangerous Mythology Of American Hope

Originally posted by Pilot
It's already happened, look at the young people engaged in the process. It isn't about hope or Obama or a new boss at all, this hope as I see it is manifesting as citizens getting off our collective butt and making change, real change happen.

Indeed. While I hesitate to make the direct comparison, for obvious reasons, I would suggest some examination of the pre-WWII events in Germany. A fine example of the expert utilization of hope and exuberance as tools of manipulation.

It ain't about them, it's about us.

Until we unify to send an appropriate message of revolution and meaningful change, there is no "US", only "THEM".

I urge you to be vigilant and observant as hope is used as a catalyst for the furtherance of long-feared agendas.

I love how hope is now dangerous and a myth. Funny how that didn't happen until Obama took office..

reply to post by mister.old.school


It could happen here, agreed. Nationalistic fervor is dangerous under any guise, be it hope fear, whatever. This is a vast, diverse population, one that may be very difficult to steer down a narrow path towards the kind of end you allude to, I think it could be averted if the engagement of the citizenry manifests itself on the local level first, economic collapse will aid that I think.

In Oklahoma there is a 20 year old Mayor in Muskogee who recently caused a stir by trying to make the city council more transparent, he was voted down by the council, however it is a start. That's what I'm talking about. Change at the cellular level of the body politic.

I feel that we have been played in a classic police officer tactic: Good cop; Bad Cop. We have been dealing with the bad cop for so long that when the good cop arrives and shows some compassion and seems humane by doing a couple of "the right things" we are willing to cooperate.

We lose sight that they still represent the same entity.

This tactic is used in torturing P.O.W.s to manipulating entire nations.

Hope in another person to make the world a better place is an extremely dangerous thing. You put your trust in that person and comply with requests that are made of you because you BELIEVE they will do the right thing.

Is this not what every dictator has done? Rally the support of the people promising change, hope, and a better future?

The only thing that I hope for is a leader that promises LESS control, more freedom.

Is this a foolish hope? Probably, but it is one that I will maintain nonetheless.

Hope invokes TRUST...Fear=Mistrust; That is the big difference The first HOPE was fulfilled, BHO actually made it into office, something a lot of people didn't think would really happen. The "FIRST 100 DAYS" I think we are going to see hope and trust building in America. I think some seemingly "good" changes will be made. After you have used hope to gain trust, well then, anything is possible. Someone mentioned the con-man using hope, and the best con, GIVES a LITTLE before he TAKES A LOT. That requires the patient practice of building trust with the mark. So we are going to get some sensible changes to feed the hope of the masses that there really is something new going on, a reason for a little more trust. I stopped listening to Mr. Hope myself. We have to take a serious look at who he is surrounded by and ask, is this not the same old thing delivered in a fresh new way? If you really want to go really deep, take a look at the last 8 years and look at what has happened to hope & trust in this country. It is almost traumatic! Did you know that one of the symptoms of PTSD is "suggestibilty," the response of the affected to pretty much follow blindly whatever he may perceive a way out of the "hopelessness."

Excellent post, and I could not agree with you more. Unfortunately, we'll have to wait and see what OUTLANDISH proposals will be made once everyone has restored confidence in the "NEW & IMPROVED" Government. And I for one, firmly believe they about about to get really crazy.

[edit on 23-1-2009 by odd1out]

reply to post by mister.old.school


I was just talking to some friend about this. He didn't know to much about politics or policies, just your kind of average blue collar guy. He understands that things are messed up as anyone could really find that out by turning on the news or discussing with others, but he just keeps saying "I hope Obama fixes all this", which is not a problem IMO, I hope the guy does too. but He is just one of our separation of powers. I see people looking forward to what is really unknown aka "the change". It is like he leaves it up to your imagination to cope with what you believe is a prosperous nation, which just ends up providing emotional solace and in enables you to take into his suggestions as he is the man with the plan.

It is the next stage, first the fear, then the hope, then the tolerance and then the acceptance. That is of course if you believe in manipulative totalitarianism.

'Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar'
- Sigmund Freud

But then that concept requires hope. Essentially the only answer is for everyone to become nihlists and goths.

Big government is the beast, so go ahead and line up to shake their hand and cheer for them. They are all the same using hope, fear, or whatever means possible to get what they want. No one man should rule over all other men, because that power is already in place and is called GOD (universal mind). The pain and suffering wont end until the people stop accepting the bull# that is fed to them on a regular basis.

Originally posted by odd1out
Unfortunately, we'll have to wait and see what OUTLANDISH proposals will be made once everyone has restored confidence in the "NEW & IMPROVED" Government. And I for one, firmly believe they about about to get really crazy.

The analogy of "good cop" -v- "bad cop" mentioned by one is apt.

Let us combine that which we learn here on ATS with the events of the past decade, and walk together down the winding path of speculation.

As a preamble, let me make it clear that I reject the notion of "empire building" as the motivations of those sinister "Powers That Be" within the United States. While the overt actions of certain individuals and groups may be interpreted as just that, it is the longer-term subtleties for which I base my concerns.

Consider, if you will, the events of the past few years. Viewed on the macro scale, we have witnessed what some are now calling the "controlled demolition" of the American Empire.

The failed foreign policies of a once-trusted nation has eroded our prominence on the global stage. But given the lessons of history, it appears these policies were designed for certain failure.

The rise of international terrorism, with the American Empire in the cross-hairs, has birthed a cult of fear and "enemies in all corners" mentality. But given this nation's covert actions, including its role in the creation of radicalized Islam, who now is surprised?

The catastrophic failure of the financial system, and the complex investment products based primarily on over-extended American consumers, has devastated our global financial dominance. But, given the lessons of history from the "great depression", it appears the entire system was designed to catastrophically implode.

Now, just when the collective national despair has reach a near-crescendo, we are presented with this handsome, intelligent, soft-spoken, well-educated, and stunningly articulate "savior" who will offer us the hope we need to correct decades of misdirected intentions.

Are we so easily fooled?

We here, we conspiriacy theorists, are supposed to be the vigilant watchdogs who remember history and recognize the drumbeats of the globalists. Do not forget "we" saw "9/11" coming. Do not forget "we" saw the Iraq invasion coming. Do not forget "we" saw the financial collapse coming. Do not forget "we" knew the Gulf of Tonkin was a false flag. Do not forget "we" knew the CIA/FBI created crack coc aine. Do not forget "we" knew there was a weapons-for-hostages deal with the Iranian government.

So now, what do "we" see in these hope-filled events?

Let me leave you on our speculative walk with one thought -- this "good cop" will lead our people gladly down the path of regionalization, and eventually globalization. Consider some not-too-distant moment in time when his calm voice of reason proclaims to our hopeful population that our only chance of emerging from this multifaceted crisis is to join with our friends in Canada and Mexico and create the North American Union. Certainly, "you" conspiracy theorists know this is a longer-term plan of the globalist "Powers That Be"? Certainly, "we" conspiracy theorists can see how these converging events could be the long-planned catalyst that completes the new Union.

Are you still hopeful?

YES!!! Thank you OP for this brilliant post!

Hope causes inaction!
You don't hope when you DO....you just DO IT!
When you are hopeing then you are doing nothing!

When you start a business and you HOPE that you will sell something then obviously you didn't DO anything to get customers and you will most likely fail!
On the other side when you ARE DOING something (or everything) to get customers you surely won't hope that you will sell anything.
Now you can HOPE for more customers...
...if you want don't want to DO anything for it!
And again when you are DOING something (or everything) to get more customers you won't hope for that anymore aswell.
And IF you are hoping that you get more customers even though you DO something about it, you seem to have no clue about what you are doing!
Everything else is expectation!
A scientist won't hope for results he will EXPECT them!
So will do an engineer!
So will do a teacher!
So will do a POLITICIAN!!!

The only places where you can hope are things that are out of your hands!
Like you hope you won't be struck by lightning.
Or hurricane, or Tsunami, flodding, nuclear strike, worldsplosion, pokemon, etc.

And Obama said it to the sheeple...
Things are out of your hands! You can only hope now!

and its for a good reason.. if they want ppl to go along with the NWO they are currently announcing.. what better way to do it under the guise of "hope"

anyone with half a brain and doesnt watch television more than an hour a week can see how screwed up everything is.. theres no coming back from this.

the ppl that cant see it and refuse get what they deserve im slowly coming to the bitter conclusion.

To OP,

While you mastery of the English language is obvious by your eloquent writing style, your intimate understanding of the human psyche seems to fall short.

Didn’t you “hope” to impart your beliefs / observations on others by starting this thread? Otherwise, why not simply go listen for a tree to fall in the forest?

I see through this veiled guise by a charlatan masquerading as a virtuous and wise teacher simply as yet another attack on our new president through the use of fancy hyperbole.

Articulated by someone who deems themself slightly elevated above the rest of us.

Don’t read too much into it people. Just more sour “Old School” grapes.
And, by the way, I am 50+.

Just because you've been around the block a few times doesn't mean there's not a better short-cut home.

Toodles……………kk

[edit on 23-1-2009 by kinda kurious]

HAHA!

You think that the OP just posted it to pull people onto his side?
You think the OP hoped for that?
Are you hoping to pull people on your side with your post?
Or did you just express your opinion just like the OP did?
But oh no must be a charlatan because he attacks my new god's words!
You just want an ENEMY! It doesn't come to your mind for one second that people can have opinions without bull#ting everyone to get to their "goals"!
Most likely because you keep *SNIP* yourself all the time!
You can see trough this you say?
You didn't even bother adressing the agruments the OP made!
And you will never THINK about what he said!
You just saw an attack on your new GOD!
And you jumped on your ENEMY!

You disgust me!

Mod Edit: No Porfanity please

[edit on 1/23/09 by FredT]

We have all felt this for a long time, just because the OP presents it in a different way doesn't mean hes trying to convert people to his beliefs.
WE, believe! We have been believing.

There is no change, just stays the same.

[edit on 1-23-2009 by Springer]

If I could award 100 stars and flags, I would.

There seems to be a misunderstanding of hope as in seeing a way out, and hope as in being given the promise of a way out.

And we are not being given (yet?) a way out, but merely promises. And in that lies the manipulative factor.

So I understand what you have posted and agree wholeheartedly.

Originally posted by mister.old.school
Are you still hopeful?

Yes. As long as there are people such as yourself who can eloquently point out the charade, we've got a fighting chance.

I'm not counting on the politicians, to be sure. And I agree that manufactured "hope" can be used as a means of control, but it won't last very long. It's easier to use fear. Hope requires some conscious decision. Fear is more a visceral knee jerk reaction. You have to consciously try to maintain hope. You have to consciously fight to suppress fear.

We'll be back to fear soon enough.

Don’t kill the messenger. I have been uneasy for the last few months because I wonder what can be done to turn the tide. Certainly the last administration did not care a bit for the common man. Everything they did they did for self, family and cronies. How much money did Carlyle Corp. make on day 1 of the Iraq war, just taking care of Poppy Bush. How much did Dick C make on his Halliburtan options over the last 8 years and wasn’t he going to give all that to charity? They were blatantly robbing us blind and no one did anything to stop them.

Now we have a ‘new’ man and things are going to change or are they? If the powers that be don’t want change then there won’t be change. Or it will be change with continuity. 30 years ago over 30% of the labor force was in unions now it closer to 12% even if it goes back up to 20% what’s really changed? If the taxes on the wealthy go from 37% to 41% for a few years the back down to 33% what’s actually changed. The puppet masters know people are unhappy so throw them a bone. Give them Obama and then build up a toxic story with the blessings of a docile press and in 4 or 8 years at the most their back in power and taking from the poor and giving to the rich. Actually it was Clinton who got through NAFTA and Woodrow Wilson who passed the Federal Reserve Act so mr. old school hit the nail on the head. Hope is just a four letter word that can be stripped away with the stroke of a pen or a shot from a gun.

reply to post by SuperSecretSquirrel


I've read many posts here and there saying, "I don't care who Mr. Obama appoints....What's his name? ...If he appoints so and so, I trust so and so...because I trust Mr. Obama!"

Scary!

Originally posted by yeahright
You have to consciously try to maintain hope. You have to consciously fight to suppress fear.

I disagree!
Hope doesn't change anything... only DOING something will changes things!
Like I explained...
When you maintain hope you are maintaining INACTION! And that is what resonates through the masses. Even here!

And how does fear dissolve?
Simply by THINKING about what makes you fear. Try to understand it and it's curcumstances and if you can do this then your fear vanishes and you can THINK about what to DO about it!

HOPE causes INACTION!
FEAR will stop your THINKING!


UPDATE:
This is how the elite managed to keep their powers. They didn't hope for it. They THOUGHT about it and DID something about this!
And they don't fear the sheeple. They think about them, understand them and manipulate them perfectly!

[edit on 23/1/2009 by zolom]

Great conceit. It plays on my conspiratorial heart-strings.

Hope is good for two things: perpetuation and abasement.

Perpetuation: Given sufficient 'hope', subjectively defined yet broad as a cultural phenomena, people will place the future ahead of today. This can be used to 'boil the pot', gradually piling small agenda-advancing change upon change, goading the public to live not in the reality of the day, but their own illusion of tomorrow. Do we wonder why economic crisis struck, as majority of the country was turning purple holding their breath for the 'change' of a new administration, looking only to that day?

Abasement: At some point, rhetoric based on 'hope' must be tied to concrete change. At this point, cognitive dissonance can arise. When faced with actual 'change', to be written in law, that they find personally objectionable, how does the public react? Well, if rejecting that instantiation requires rejecting themselves, in that they have allowed their personal emotional comfort to be defined by their interpretation of hope, there's often a stunned, impotent silence. This unvocal despair can be managed, manipulated, and leveraged.

Given that, M.O.S. (and thank you again for your well-spoken words), what do you feel might be the 'milestones of abasement' of this phenomena of hope? Foreign policy (look, missiles were launched today!)? Economic initiative (more taxes and you want community service from me!)? Will this 'hope-bubble' be burst by small, partisan bickering and deadlock, deflated by the slow realization of 'business as usual', before it can be leveraged for the strides in the globalist agenda you mention? If not, how will it be maintained?