First Embryonic Stem Cell Trial Gets FDA Approval

reply to post by AshleyD


I know Ashley, but is not easy to bring ths type of issue without empirical discussion base on the benefits and cons of these type of medical research if the topic turns into a moral anti abortion issue.

I wish it could be discussed without the babies are been killed for this.

This is a very interesting topic and a very interesting issue and a great moment for science.

But I guess I and done for now.

Originally posted by paperplanes
Did anyone bother to read the article Ashley linked? The moral sentiments expressed following this revelation seem to suggest that the scientists in question specially ordered a fetus (or several) to be aborted for use in the stroke treatment. This is not the case. These were babies that had already been aborted and were being utilized after the fact by scientists for the betterment of ill individuals.

I'm sorry I seemed to miss that part. Can you please quote the segment from the article that gave you the impression abortions took place just for the research? I see nothing of the sort. It just says from an aborted fetus, implying exactly what you just said: An abortion that had already been done.

The article nor myself say anything remotely like abortions are taking place just for the research.

Originally posted by marg6043
I wish it could be discussed without the babies are been killed for this.

Yes, me too! I wish it could be discussed that way too but since the FACT is babies have been killed, it's kind of hard not to mention that. You know?

Originally posted by paperplanes
Perhaps I have more faith in humanity than you do.

I have no doubt of that. In my daily contact with humity however, I can list the reasons why I don't. I love them, just don't expect them to do selfless things.

Originally posted by paperplanes
I do not forsee the mainstream scientific community embracing the abortion of children for use in stem cell research.

I hope your right.

Originally posted by AshleyD

Originally posted by paperplanes
Did anyone bother to read the article Ashley linked? The moral sentiments expressed following this revelation seem to suggest that the scientists in question specially ordered a fetus (or several) to be aborted for use in the stroke treatment. This is not the case. These were babies that had already been aborted and were being utilized after the fact by scientists for the betterment of ill individuals.

I'm sorry I seemed to miss that part. Can you please quote the segment from the article that gave you the impression abortions took place just for the research? I see nothing of the sort. It just says from an aborted fetus, implying exactly what you just said: An abortion that had already been done.

The article nor myself say anything remotely like abortions are taking place just for the research.

No no, I am referencing the sentiment of thread members. A few seem to think that the situation mentioned within the article is an argument against embryonic stem cell research due to the use of aborted fetuses. My argument was that the scientists were merely utilizing fetuses that had already been aborted and were set to be discarded, and that the article in no way presents embryonic stem cell research as dependent upon abortions.

Just as an aside, I won't be participating in the thread any longer if we do decide to follow in suit with the new forum. I'm not keen to rehash the abortion and religion debates.

reply to post by AshleyD


Yes you can!!!!while talking about the benefits and the great opportunity that people with severe spinal cord injuries can look for, the loved and wanted babies that are born with genetic disorders can get from all this to have a better shot at life.

Yes is many issues behind this type of research that are all good news and positive in nature.

You are a smart person and you know exactly my point.

But is sad that you made your choice and is not geared to this side of the issue.

Pity.

reply to post by marg6043


I'm sorry Marg but I disagree. You want to focus on the beneficial aspects while ignoring the horror of what makes it possible. I cannot do that. It's like me saying where can I find a bar of soap made out of human lard. It makes me feel so clean- doesn't matter where it came from.

This is such a heated issue and we'll have to agree to disagree. This is my last post to the thread. I know when I actually start sweating in my computer chair, I'm getting too passionate over something I feel strongly about.

So take care everyone. No hard feelings. I know I'm coming across as the 'conservative pest' but it's my honest opinion. I still think all you guys are awesome people. We have to have some fun withe the hotter subject too and I think we've all done a great job on this thread tackling a heated issue while still being civil.

Originally posted by AshleyD
So take care everyone. No hard feelings. I still think all you guys are awesome people. We have to have some fun withe the hotter subject too and I think we've all done a great job on this thread tackling a heated issue while still being civil.

Wholeheartedly agreed.

reply to post by paperplanes


I'm glad you acknowledge that embryos are alive and therefore are killed and harvested for stem cells. That actually allows the discussion to move forward a bit. I appreciate that you've clarified that for it to be an issue for you it must be sentient however denying a being from becoming sentient when by due course of biology it can become such should be a cause for alarm. Following this train of thought, it would then be okay to drug/gas someone beyond recognition and then take their life. After all, they're not aware and the person's parts can be used in a heart transplant.

[edit on 23-1-2009 by saint4God]

Originally posted by marg6043
Yes you can!!!!while talking about the benefits and the great opportunity that people with severe spinal cord injuries can look for, the loved and wanted babies that are born with genetic disorders can get from all this to have a better shot at life.

I agree with you entirely. I remember how upset I was about stem cell research being denied years ago. I first heard about this yesterday I think and all I could think was: Finally, all those benefits are finally able to be explored. It's a great thing that I'm so glad has finally been reopened.

Originally posted by saint4God
reply to post by paperplanes

 

I'm glad you acknowledge that embryos are alive and therefore are killed and harvested for stem cells. That actually allows the discussion to move forward a bit. I appreciate that you've clarified that for it to be an issue for you it must be sentient however denying a being from becoming sentient when by due course of biology it can become such should be a cause for alarm.

I have never denied that embryos are living. At the beginning of our argument, I noted sentience as the dividing line between you and the blastocysts in question. This was never in dispute for anyone who bothered to read my posts, though observing your behavior suggests that you fall outside of this category.

Following this train of thought, it would then be okay to drug/gas someone beyond recognition and then take their life. After all, they're not aware and the person's parts can be used in a heart transplant.

You continue to dazzle me with your wild analogies. Remedial logic is in order if you cannot point out the fault here.

I don't foresee any fruitful development by way of our continuing discussion. The best idea would be to civilly end it at this juncture.

Originally posted by saint4God

Originally posted by marg6043
...finally we have a president that cares about science

Good try, but he doesn't care about science really (notice he hasn't a science background). I care about science, which is why I became a scientist. I was very happy to hear that the job I got was in healthcare. Guess what? Farming embryos is not healthcare. It's a cheap way of mining death for parts. Wondering when the in-vitro baby factory begins, surely it's the next step.

[edit on 23-1-2009 by saint4God]

Farming death???


Who is it that died???

What name did they have?

Did they like to watch movies?

Are they alive when they are frozen in the first place?

Well you guys don't have to use any products produced by the method...

You cannot convince an embryo is anymore valid than a sperm, a chunk of snot or a toenail.

Doesn't have eyes. brains or an identity.

Like I said don't use the products and focus on saving things that live, breath and think.

Stem cells don't just come from embryos. They come from adults when they donate. They come from placentas, they come from cord blood. Stem cell is a generic term.

Now these are embryos that are not used, and rejected, and otherwise thrown away. So I don't understand why the can't be put to incredible use?

these embryos are artificially grown. Regardless that they are human, they are just embryos grown in a petri dish, not even a natural life. Saying stem cell research is killing babies is crap, while it is true to some level, though, an embryo is barely developed and doesn't even have a beating heart. what if we were to use chimp embryo's, So what right? they're just chimpanzees, not humans. Anyway, I'll have my opinion and people who say an artificially grown embryo, an abomination really, deserves life will have theirs.

damn our opinions. There will always be the naysayers and the, uh, yaysayers.

I am completely for Stem Cell Research, especially in its potential for curing Paralysis, which is an injury I have pondered as to why they have not yet figured out a way to reconnect damaged nerves.

However, I fail to see why we need Embryonic Stem Cells, when we have SO Many other sources for such Experimentation.

I think denying scientist the ability to do this research is so incredibly stupid it boggles my mind. The arguments against stem cell research are totally illogical and RIDICULOUS!

Use your head people. Just reading some of your guys posts arguing against science that can really truly help humanity makes my blood boil over. My father's neck was pretty much crushed by a runaway branch while he was doing his job as a logger. He is completely paralyzed from the neck down. Having a disability like that is so incredibly difficult and painful to live through and you people will never understand what it's like until you watch one of the closest members of your family suffer every single day of their life just trying to make it day by day. After watching him do this for most of my life I still couldn't even imagine what it would be like to live like that, especially after having all those freedoms you never thought about until you lost them all in nothing but a second.

Most people that bitch about this focus on how it kills babies and how scientists are going to get an uncontrollable desire for baby blood and are gonna go around knocking out pregnant women and stealing their unborn children straight outta their womb. I'm embellishing a little but it sounds just as retarded as the real protests.

First off, there is always going to be abortions. I am totally against abortions except in the case of incest,rape,etc..but irresponsible piece of garbage mothers are still going to do it. These people do not care one way or the other if their dead child is going to be used for life saving research or thrown in the garbage. This should be obvious to most of you simply because the mother already made a decision to terminate her child. Simple logic. Whether or not her dead baby is going to go towards something positive matters not, it is not going to sway her one way or the other. If we were not using these babies for research, they would be useless and just something to be disposed of. So why not use them for something that could greatly benefit humanity as a whole.

I don't really know how to argue my point more thoroughly or explain it better because to me this is simple black and white logic. Unless we make it illegal to kill your unborn child there will ALWAYS be abortions. Whether or not stem cell research even existed DOESN'T MATTER. The fetus is DEAD ANYWAYS. It has no choice in the matter. If you have issues with that you should take it up with the MOTHERS that make the decision to have their child killed.

It has NOTHING to do with the scientist who take something horrible and try to do something good with it. All you accomplish by harassing them and dragging this out forever is impeding progress of something great that could be used to change the life of so many people for the better. I bet if you guys had to live with a some of these crippling disabilities that stem cell research may cure would be playing a different tune after a very short time.

All this phony bleeding heart activism makes me sick. Why don't you guys find something useful to pretend to care about and be offended by.

There are plenty of other things in this world to apply your efforts to that may actually help someone instead of hurting so many and impeding scientific progress that may change their lives forever and cure them.

Once again, as I read through some of the posts in this topic alone I feel as though I'm frothing at the mouth over here.

Those here coming up with all these absolutely ludicrous and absurd analogies basically comparing the Nazis medical research to this (and other equally stupid comparisons)...are you all insane? Do you actually believe these things you are typing? I mean, if you actually had some sort of decent argument for why this should be stopped then I (and others) would be happy to take my time and try my best to understand it, but stuff like this makes you people look crazy.

This is why I think most of you bring up stuff like this to make it seem like your so incredibly deep and morally righteous that you have the balls to actually take a stand for something. When you make over the top stupid analogies like you have here it makes it seem like you are arguing against something your feeble minds do not fully grasp or understand. I'm not saying this is the case, just that it appears that it is. You are simply throwing out nonsensical emotional garbage trying to get knee-jerk reactions out of other phony pretend-to-give-a-damn jerkoffs.

Just learning from the best I guess. I mean every time someone is trying to show a bunch of sheeple how bad something is you just have to come up with as many nazi/hitler analogies as you can. Usually it works, I give you that.

Still, I'm very much at a loss of words for you people and all the others you parrot.

Black pastor warns Obama

Black pastor warns Obama not to preside over genocide of blacks through abortion.

That's what embryonic harvesting is. Even if it's in a dish in a lab.

When a person's eggs and sperm are for sold to the drug companies for research, who do you think will be selling them? Rich people? No. The poor will be the biggest sellers.

America will be pushing for medical research on the preborn children of the poor. We will be abusing the poor. Even if they are willing participants in order to get the $$$ - we are still taking advantage of their lower economic status.