The Obama Presidency : Here Comes Socialism, page
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ATS Members have flagged this thread 3 times
Topic started on 23-1-2009 @ 04:52 AM by 44soulslayer
Now we all know that Obama is just starting out, so its a bit unfair to bash him straight away without knowing how his policies will turn out right?

Well projection and analysis are tools which enable us to envisage what will happen as a result of his policies. We may be wrong, but it is worth considering the possibilities anyhow.

The following is an excerpt from a brilliant op-ed piece by Dick Morris, former advisor to Republican senators and also to Bill Clinton. Morris is the archetypal advocate for the "third way" method of politics and economics- that is a blend of left and right wing policies.

Let's see what he has to say :

Obama will accomplish his agenda of “reform” under the rubric of “recovery.” Using the electoral mandate bestowed on a Democratic Congress by restless voters and the economic power given his administration by terrified Americans, he will change our country fundamentally in the name of lifting the depression. His stimulus packages won’t do much to shorten the downturn — although they will make it less painful — but they will do a great deal to change our nation.

...

But it is not his spending that will transform our political system, it is his tax and welfare policies. In the name of short-term stimulus, he will give every American family (who makes less than $200,000) a welfare check of $1,000 euphemistically called a refundable tax credit. And he will so sharply cut taxes on the middle class and the poor that the number of Americans who pay no federal income tax will rise from the current one-third of all households to more than half. In the process, he will create a permanent electoral majority that does not pay taxes, but counts on ever-expanding welfare checks from the government. The dependency on the dole, formerly limited in pre-Clinton days to 14 million women and children on Aid to Families with Dependent Children, will now grow to a clear majority of the American population.



You can read the full article here.




Replaced 'quote' with 'ex' tags for external text.

Please read Posting work written by others

[edit on 23/1/09 by masqua]


reply posted on 23-1-2009 @ 05:49 AM by Tentickles
reply to post by 44soulslayer



lol I dont see why everyone is so afraid of it... I for one have no opinion either way about it, just another title for another thing I dont really need to know about.



reply posted on 23-1-2009 @ 06:01 AM by 44soulslayer
reply to post by redled



The rubric of "liberalism" is a misnomer in my point of view.

I think the debate is between free market forces versus state intervention.

Third way systems may be "balanced" in the sense that they appear to cater to both camps, but when it comes to the personal liberties vs state control, it falls squarely into the state control camp.

reply to post by Tentickles



I'm sorry I don't understand what you are trying to say. Do you mean that socialism isn't bad?

If so, I agree. Its not bad, its just another way of doing things.

The question is, do you want your country to be one where the majority of folks are reliant on the state as opposed to being self-reliant?

Its that question of self-sufficiency (ie sailing the waves of the free market) vs state control (forced to stay at harbour) that America must answer.

If America chooses a bigger state, then I will be unhappy but accept it as the changing tide of public opinion. It would be unconstitutional in my opinion, but in the face of a majority nothing can be done. That is democracy.


reply posted on 23-1-2009 @ 06:47 AM by redled
Originally posted by 44soulslayer
reply to
post by redled



The rubric of "liberalism" is a misnomer in my point of view.

I think the debate is between free market forces versus state intervention.

Third way systems may be "balanced" in the sense that they appear to cater to both camps, but when it comes to the personal liberties vs state control, it falls squarely into the state control camp.


It's more a case of melding the two. What you need to consider is that the truth is in one way like a multi sided crystal, depends how you look at it. Different people have different takes and each comes out with 'truths' and to a degree the odd bit of BS where a mate puts you straight. Political bodies of thought are the works of groups of people, even if only one summarises them. These bodies of thought in themselves are prone to be right and wrong, the point of melding them is to respect all sides of the argument and to try to tease the truths from the various bodies to develop new thought. This is exactly how science works, but politicians tend to keep out the scientists so have little grasp of the tolerance and respect required for this. The 'third way' is a misnomer (and a screen - Kundera or Vision - see my signature), there have been more than two before it, eg Feudalism. I was being slightly pedantic with 'Liberalism,' it just happens to be the middle of the three main parties in the UK parliament......

[EDIT] Clue: Chimpanzees are Fusion Fission animals, sometimes they want to be individualistic, sometimes they act as a group, like male female, they are just different sides of the same evolutionary coin.



[edit on 23/1/2009 by redled]

[edit on 23/1/2009 by redled]


reply posted on 29-1-2009 @ 07:42 PM by The Cyfre
reply to post by 44soulslayer



I am also Libertarian and I would much prefer a capitalist society where the people who HAVE, do so because they worked for it. And I don't happen to believe that this is a "special circumstance" under which the government should be bailing out private industry. I hate that both Republicans and Democrats are behind this idea so long as the earmarks keep coming.

But I really don't think it's any reason to think Dick Morris has any kind of a point, when his piece is nothing more than a stream-of-consciousness rant about when good Presidents go bad or something. It holds no merit and he should be ashamed for having submitted it for public reading!


reply posted on 31-1-2009 @ 09:35 PM by The Cyfre
reply to post by TasteTheMagick



So, are you going to return your stimulus check with a strongly-worded letter, or are you just going to tear yours up and go about your day?
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