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Tasteless jokes are now a crime?

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posted on Jan, 29 2009 @ 08:08 AM
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Originally posted by TasteTheMagick
If I shoot you, I have attacked you.
If I say some unpleasant words, I have not.

I never said that people should go around raping and doing things like that. I said that people should be able to express their opinions. And thankfully, our CONSTITUTION says that we can. It gives us the freedom to say whatever we want no matter WHO disagrees with us.

It's people like YOU that make me more proud to be living in America than I have ever been.


Oooh i think you need to read the manners and decorum thread - are you saying that ATS is wrong?????




posted on Jan, 29 2009 @ 08:11 AM
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Originally posted by MCoG1980
Try telling that to some poor kid at school who daren't go back because his life is made a misery through verbal jokes. Some people even consider or even commit suicide because of this.


Well in this case it is a PUBLIC FIGURE that put a lot of effort into becoming the "leader of the free world". If you seek fame, people are going to talk about you (that is in fact the whole point!).

Every young actress/singer is going to be scrutinized if she gets too fat, or loses to much weight. Should it be a "bias crime" everytime a celebrity gossip rag makes fun of an actress that is too thin, or too flabby?

As far a commenting on the president's race, why not? All anyone talks about is how "this is the first black president". It is a national obsession, yet only GOOD comments are allowed? No.

[edit on 29-1-2009 by Sonya610]



posted on Jan, 29 2009 @ 08:28 AM
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reply to post by Sonya610
 


Think you got a bit carried away their - the reply was to taste the magik not the OP.

I'd hate to live in a school run by anyone who can excuse bullying in the way that you have just tried to.

Teacher: Why do you have slash marks on your arm

Pupil: i dont feel worthy of this world, i am fat an ugly and all the other kids contantly tell me so.

Teacher: Grow up and stop being immature, get a life, words don't harm you, do they leave bruises do they.

week later

Bereaved Parent: Why did you not help my child, her diary says she told you her problems but you failed to acknowledge them.

Teacher: Ahh, get over it, freedom of speech.



posted on Jan, 29 2009 @ 08:39 AM
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Originally posted by MCoG1980
I'd hate to live in a school run by anyone who can excuse bullying in the way that you have just tried to.

Teacher: Why do you have slash marks on your arm

Pupil: i dont feel worthy of this world, i am fat an ugly and all the other kids contantly tell me so.

Teacher: Grow up and stop being immature, get a life, words don't harm you, do they leave bruises do they.


Uhhhhh....that example makes no sense. Most states have LAWS that require teachers to take action if they suspect an underage student is being abused or they may harm themselves.

Your example would be like calling 911 to report a fire, and having the operator say "who cares if your house burns down, go fix it yourself" and then hanging up. That is NOT merely expressing ones opinion that is failing to take action, and there would be legal consequences.

Your example has NOTHING to do with free speech. Free speech is the right to express ones opinion. It has nothing to do with fulfilling ones professional obligations.

[edit on 29-1-2009 by Sonya610]



posted on Jan, 29 2009 @ 09:18 AM
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reply to post by Sonya610
 


Ok, i'll make it clearer. If it is ok to call people names then where can a teacher come in and say it is wrong if name calling does no harm? Are teachers taking away freedom of speech from the the other pupils who are doing the name calling/jokes at the victims expense - oh yeah they are victims but i suppose you lot wouldn't think so.


Like i said, my reply was to the posts made by tastethemagik - re-read and it should make sense.


Well i'm done here because this thread is making me
realising that no-one other than a certain few can see that name calling is wrong. Proud to be a brit who thinks this way than an American that doesn't.

Quite ironic really, this being no name calling week an all that, take a look you might learn something from it - hopefully
:

www.nonamecallingweek.org...



Effects of Name-Calling
Any negative label or insult has the potential to hurt a child's feelings. Children who are frequently insulted by their siblings often remember the experience with pain even in adulthood. Children who have been insulted by their parents (i.e. being called "stupid," "careless," "sloppy," bad" etc.) also often remember the pain throughout adulthood.

However, remembered pain is not the worse consequence of name-calling. Far worse is the impact name-calling can have on personality development. Even fully grown adults who are subjected to regular insults (verbal abuse) are eventually affected by it: they come to feel less adequate, less competent and less loveable the more they experience being insulted. This effect is much much more powerful in childhood when a youngster's sense of self is not yet fully formed. At this point, being called names can leave the child truly believing that he or she is damaged, worthless, useless, bad and defective, as well as unlovable. Once a child entertains such notions about him/herself, the child tends to act in ways that are consistent with that poor self-image. So a child who is regularly called "stupid" for example, comes to believe that he can't do things like other people and then he stops trying to succeed. The label can be crippling. Of course the negative labels used regularly by parents tend to be much more damaging than those used only by siblings, but the effects of sibling-abuse must not be underestimated.



source:www.parenting-advice.net...


news.bbc.co.uk...



[edit on 29-1-2009 by MCoG1980]



posted on Jan, 29 2009 @ 10:24 AM
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if your racist or sexist or biggoted in some other way, keep it to yourself, don't sully those you keep company with..... simple as



posted on Jan, 29 2009 @ 10:40 AM
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reply to post by adamclement
 


Exactly, Think all the racist bigoted crap you like..in your HEAD!!

Don't spout it off, nobody wants to hear it... except other racists and bigots....



posted on Jan, 29 2009 @ 01:16 PM
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reply to post by blupblup
 



I am in agreement with the 2 posts directly above this one.


[edit on 29-1-2009 by MCoG1980]



posted on Jan, 29 2009 @ 01:23 PM
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reply to post by MCoG1980
 


Thanks for at least providing an actual situation. However, your situations, while adequate, only prove that if you ALLOW the words to hurt you than that is your own problem.

There are people, who are weak minded, that think that everyone elses opinion is so important and allow these situations to "hurt" them. You are only perpetuating that by saying that words hurt people.

If people like you didn't go around saying that words could hurt and pushed for all this PC crap, it wouldn't be that big of a deal.



posted on Jan, 29 2009 @ 01:31 PM
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reply to post by TasteTheMagick
 


I disagree, i grew up watching the harm it does.
even our soaps address the issue, it can be mentally scarring:


Heather was introduced as the life-long best friend of Shirley Carter, who loves cheese and karaoke and is a fan of George Michael. She lived with her controlling mother Queenie until she moved in with Shirley. Her parents' marriage broke down when she was young, and Queenie told her that her father had left because he couldn't stand living with Heather. Heather grew up being mentally abused by her mother, who called her "Pig".



source:

en.wikipedia.org...



posted on Jan, 29 2009 @ 01:35 PM
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reply to post by MCoG1980
 


You can disagree all you like. That's the beauty of free speech. You can sit there and disagree with me and I can still find you wrong. And no one can do anything to you OR me just because we disagree.

People should be able to say whatever they want.

In America, people can, and you can bet that we wont just give it up because a few people like to whine about words being "hurtful".

Grow up.



posted on Jan, 29 2009 @ 01:41 PM
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reply to post by TasteTheMagick
 


Hmmm I think i am the grown up here but if thats how you wish your country to be then fine, watch it crumble into hatred for each other. I am not pushing anything, i believe that when i open my mouth i should not wish to be hurtfull to another person, if you beleive different then thats you. I know what type of person i'd rather be.



posted on Jan, 29 2009 @ 02:46 PM
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reply to post by TasteTheMagick
 


hard to argue against free speech - so I won't



You can disagree all you like. That's the beauty of free speech.


it is beautiful - beautiful enough to never ever need tinkering



People should be able to say whatever they want.


unless it incites dangerous, violent or illegal behavior

that's a debate right there - a long one

still, hate speech is like obscenity - I may not be able to define it - but I know it when I see it

the real beauty of true free speech is that everyone can feel safe to express what they want to - more or less in the way that they want to

and everyone else is free to tell them what they can do with it

more or less in the way that they'd like to



Grow up.


no - you grow up

:-)

I think this argument deserves a better come back than that

edit to add:

Hate speech - what is it if not inciting?

or, then, what is it?

when is it?

you'll know it when you see it

edit - to make a sentence make more sense

[edit on 1/29/2009 by Spiramirabilis]



posted on Jan, 29 2009 @ 06:03 PM
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I actually came back here and re-read a lot of what was said. I'd like to recant my statement but to a degree. The man who said this should not be legally charged, but I think there is a limit. If the man who did this were to say "Happy death of Martin Luther King Jr. Day! Time to go out there to kill 'dem n*gs on my street!". I think we would have much more of a problem, because then you are actually impeding with the welfare of any African American's living on your street for example.
I mean either way I personally think the guys a douche. I personally don't understand racism, never have. It seems a majority of it stems from our ancestors or trials and tribulations that took place in their past. Their past is not OUR past. You can't blame a white man walking down the street for what he did to your people if you are Native American. Now if we had a time machine...that may be a different matter....It's time to move on!



posted on Jan, 29 2009 @ 08:32 PM
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Originally posted by Spiramirabilis
Hate speech - what is it if not inciting?


Opinion.


reply to post by NativeAmerican
 


Hear, hear!!!



posted on Jan, 29 2009 @ 09:33 PM
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reply to post by Tuning Spork
 


absolutely - opinion

and we're all entitled to have one - out loud where everyone can hear it - free from retribution or persecution

we don't have to like what someone says, we never have to agree with them - we can in fact hate what someone else says - and go on to actually hate the person who says it

but we have to tolerate it - because that's the only way any of this will work for all of us

the links to the original story lead to nothing - I can't say much about that situation - but based on what I've heard in this thread - he should not have been fired

his facebook page - he gets to be as ugly as he wants

unless they can prove he was representing the company in a very real way - that might be different

I don't feel bad at all about the scrutiny

the only real way to fight what we feel is wrong is to do exactly what we're doing now - drag it all out in the open and duke it out (verbally of course)

to me it's about intent - which I admit is a very dicey thing to prove - if not out and out impossible

hate speech may be just opinion - and protected

but to pretend that words have no power is a rationalization

the ugliness is not something I'm willing to just let go - I'm certainly never going to ignore it

I'm free to call it as I see it

it's a beautiful thing



posted on Jan, 29 2009 @ 09:38 PM
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Originally posted by GENERAL EYES
When Freedom of Speech becomes an excuse to be a bigoted ass - I have to step back and think about the greater good of the Nation as a whole.


Well said and worth being requoted.

Peace



posted on Feb, 1 2009 @ 05:48 AM
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This Thought Crime Legislation is disgusting. The members here who support it disgust me. You have every right to disgust me - I would never turn you in.

In any case, I have found an image that is representative of the situation that most of Europe (And Canada) now finds itself in.

I believe that regardless of your stance on this particular issue, this image will resonate with you as it is based upon the sad truth of the reality with which we are all faced:


(Image Courtesy of Sullivan-County)

[edit on 1-2-2009 by Exuberant1]



posted on Feb, 1 2009 @ 11:45 AM
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reply to post by MCoG1980
 


But don't you see that "hateful" words are subjective? Each person has their own opinion on what is and is not "hateful" language. It's ridiculous to tell people what they can and can not say.

Words only hurt people too ignorant to know that words can't hurt them.



posted on Feb, 18 2009 @ 12:49 AM
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reply to post by GENERAL EYES
 


The fact that any American would actually think this is a good thing, is disturbing. I would gladly let this country burn to the ground before I would want to see it abandon all reason and and infringe on even one persons right to free speech. This is sad



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