Har Karkom...Could it be the Actual Mt. Sinai??, page 1

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Topic started on 22-1-2009 @ 04:27 PM by coredrill

Today, I was reading a Novel "Pharaoh" by Valerio Massimo Manfredi (who is actually a professor of Classical Archaeology and the author numerous best selling historic fiction books). One key point in the Novel is about har Karkom.

Har Karkom ("Mountain of Saffron", also called Jabal Ideid) is a mountain in the southwest Negev desert in Israel, half way between Petra and Kadesh Barnea. OOn the basis that the Israelites travelled across the Sinai peninsula towards Petra in a fairly straight line, a number of scholars have contemplated the possibility of Jabal Ideid being the Biblical Mount Sinai. Following this theory, Emmanuel Anati excavated at the mountain, and discovered that it was a major paleolithic cult centre, with the surrounding plateau covered with shrines, altars, stone circles, stone pillars, and over 40,000 rock engravings. Although, on the basis of his findings, Anati advocates the identification of Jabal Ideid with Mount Sinai[1][2], the peak of religious activity at the site dates to 2350-2000 BC, and the mountain appears to have been abandoned between 1950-1000 BC; the exodus is usually dated between 1600-1200 BC.

Har karkom -wikipedia.org

Here is a link to Emmanuel Anati's website on har Karkom
Emmanuel Anati's Website on Har Karkom

Here is another link on the Exodus and Har Karkom
Exodus and Har Karkom

One striking feature in har Karkom is the petroglyphs

one particularly..

most of you would know the story of a staff and some snakes!

Have a read of the links and lets discuss!!

[edit on 22/1/09 by coredrill]

(ex and img tags)

[edit on Fri Feb 6 2009 by Jbird]

reply posted on 23-1-2009 @ 02:38 AM by coredrill

another link
Har Karkom

reply posted on 23-1-2009 @ 07:38 PM by invisiblewoman

Let's discuss! I saw this on the Naked archeologist and he did this thing where he went to all these sites ,very interestingly he showed many sites with evidence of prehistoric worship, petroglyphs like the one you showed and then on top of a low plateau said to be 'the site' of Sinai

My own take on all of this is this ,of course the 'Bible 'was not written in a vacuum . The things that are miraculous myths , such as Noah's Ark or the Burning Bush or the Plagues of Egypt are references to things that happened filtered through the regional religious ideas of the tellers or recorders.

most of the people of the biblical times never went more than 30 or 40 miles from where they were born,only wars and catastrophic displacements of people through climate change , or natural disaster result in these sensational stories of other people and places and origins

"God ' gets horribly misinterpreted when transplanted from one culture to another ,as do the old myths when taken to a new place or repressed by a new occupier

the whole thing is dang mess

reply posted on 24-1-2009 @ 09:53 PM by btyoung21

Yeah, I agree with you. Culture is an amalgation of other cultures mixed together, chop suey style.

Anyway, with regards to travelling in a fairly straight line, it could be possible that this is the Mt. Sinai from the Bible.

Good post!

reply posted on 6-2-2009 @ 03:35 PM by invisiblewoman

I do consider it likely that this could very well the site that is referenced in the Bile as Mt Sinai

apparently it and the region around it were religious gathering sites for millennia before this

Just think,whenever a new religion takes over or wants to get traction it piggybacks on the Holiest Most followed and revered of it's predecessors

one example would be Hagia Sophia,former Christian Basilica now Mosque

some Cathedrals in Europe are built on former Pagan High Holy sites yada yada

basically the Bible is just a story of warlord politics that we can see reenacted every day in the Middle East

nothing at all new under the sun

reply posted on 6-2-2009 @ 08:09 PM by Hanslune

reply to post by invisiblewoman

Religions tend to evolve, in that process they absorb aspects of earlier and peer religions. Religions also take on the social characterisitics of the culture in which they arise or are adopted by.

reply posted on 6-2-2009 @ 09:23 PM by invisiblewoman

Sure ,I think this is a story about This location being central to a Warlord.Moses,on his campaign to legitimize his rebellion and hold onto his followers by giving them a reference that they were already familiar with

oldest trick in the book *hahaha no pun intended

reply posted on 6-7-2009 @ 07:34 PM by Sargoth

Guys, I'm surprised you all haven't seen the real Mt. Sinai by now. It's been available for yrs. now. Just look up Jabel al Lawz or Mt. Sinai, or Ron Wyatt on youtube. It's all there with great photos. The "Burning Bush" is really a tree between 2 boulders. I don't know why they didn't take close up shots of it.

www.youtube.com...
www.youtube.com...
www.youtube.com...

[edit on 6-7-2009 by Sargoth]

reply posted on 7-7-2009 @ 11:55 AM by pause4thought

reply to post by Sargoth

Hi Sargoth. I am truly sorry to have to break this to you, but the case for Ron Wyatt's claims is far from proven. Sadly they may actually be fraudulent.

I went through great disappointment myself when I heard the other side of the picture, many years ago. I outlined briefly the case against these claims here:

Mount Sinai Found

I think all of us would likely benefit from doing some hard digging on the subject. It is so easy to get caught up on a bandwagon consisting of the arguments from one side or another without being sufficiently critical. In my case I admit getting swept along by the string of stupendous claims backed up by apparent evidence, telling others about it, then having to eat humble pie when it emerged the claims did not stand up well to closer scrutiny.

At the same time I would be as pleased as anybody if at least some of Mr Wyatt's major archaeological claims actually proved true.

reply posted on 7-7-2009 @ 06:38 PM by Sargoth

Well you can believe what you want Pause4thought. But i can't see how the Mt. Sinai info. can be denied. I don't think Wyatt was correct on the Noah's Ark info, and the Ark of the Covenant and crucifixion site haven't been proven yet, so I'm not going to argue those points. But if you or any one can give specifics on why Jabel El Lawz isn't Mt. Sinai, I'm listening. A lot of people always claim Wyatt was a fraud but fail to give specifics. Just because he didn't have archaeologist credentials means nothing to me.

Look at the dig they are doing near the Garden tomb where Ron Dug.
www.youtube.com...

[edit on 8-7-2009 by Sargoth]

reply posted on 8-7-2009 @ 10:35 AM by pause4thought

reply to post by Sargoth

...i can't see how the Mt. Sinai info. can be denied... if you or any one can give specifics on why Jabel El Lawz isn't Mt. Sinai, I'm listening. A lot of people always claim Wyatt was a fraud but fail to give specifics. Just because he didn't have archaeologist credentials means nothing to me.

Hi Sargoth. Wyatt's lack of professional credentials is not the ground for the main objection. The reason I pointed to my posts in the other thread is that you would have come across this link: Wyatt Archeological Research Fraud Documentation.

Saying "A lot of people always claim Wyatt was a fraud but fail to give specifics" misses the point: the onus is on the one making the claims to back up what he has said!

The common statement that R Wyatt was not able to back his claims up when challenged is illustrated by the article linked to above along with other links on the same page - though this only represents a small sample of the available refutations.

I repeat it is very regrettable to have to think in terms of refuting such claims, but at the end of the day what matters is whether they are factual, not whether we would like them to be true.

Here's an extract from the above article:

As to the so-called discoveries on Ron Wyatt's video entitled "Presentation of Discoveries," those interviewed whom Ron Wyatt presented with his "facts" put little or no archaeological value on any of the material. "Fraud" was the word most often used when discussing these so-called discoveries. Read the letters from archaeologists within Ron Wyatt's own denomination, Seventh Day Adventist, and you will see that even those who would have an interest in substantiating Ron Wyatt's claims find little or no scientific evidence to support any of these discoveries...

...In summary, "A Great Christian Scam" was written to warn the readership of "Dew from Mount Hermon" magazine of Ron Wyatt's deception. That was as far as I planned to tell the story. Since the story appeared on the Internet, we have received many inquiries from many Christian organizations asking for more information. Since Joel Davenport has chosen to publish a very misleading article written to discredit my article, I felt it necessary to release further documentation of the overwhelming evidence against WAR's claims of the greatest archaeological discoveries of all time. Read the letters. Write or call some of them. Those professionals who have seen the evidence (or lack thereof) and those who have had dealings with Ron Wyatt will make it plain to anyone that WAR's discoveries are hoaxes.

Returning to your opening point, claims that Jabel El Lawz is the real Mt. Sinai can certainly be treated with a great deal of caution, if not entirely denied, on the grounds that Mr Wyatt's other claims were very possibly nothing but the fraudulent basis of a flagrant money-making scam.

I will therefore treat this claim with a pinch of salt until presented with more reliable evidence.