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Originally posted by uplander
That's asking a lot, isn't it?
Originally posted by NatureBoy
reply to post by truthquest
I feel quiet bad now, i didn't mean to take away anything which makes you feel good - i think that it's impossible for someone's life to exist outside of our mindset but that doesn't mean i think life is meaningless, or death empty - the things we do in our life effect the whole of humanity in one way or another, if everyone is good to each other and the whole world vibrates with positive actions then only good things will come, the world will turn into heaven - all our hopes and dreams for the future will be made real and we (people made up of our actions, etc) will enjoy the world.
I see the bible as a wise book, with whole sections written / edited by evil men, which holds the basic universal truth of the world, though much of it is wrong or silly or immoral it does all have a certain wisdom and i almost believe that the answer to any question can be found in the bible (answered both ways) -american am radio has proved that too me the section you provided is interesting, it states that heaven is the best of the best, best of all possible worlds - this is surely where we will end up if everyone is good to each other? The 'spirit' of us that gets to enjoy it, surely that is our spirit living inside our great grand children - doesn't it talk about sins of the father payed for by the child, they are trying to tell us that community is the only way to create heaven on earth, does not god only give to those who help themselves?
i really think the magic place in the sky is a way of trying to explain what they saw when they looked into the future - we can either be good and try to do things the smart way and create heaven, or we can ruin the planet and turn it into hell.
Originally posted by NatureBoy
...No, its not that i don't know the exact mechanics of Heaven - it's that i know its a paradox - that is to say it's impossible. ...
Originally posted by NatureBoy
Heaven is an impossible concept and religion has been covering up the lie with faulty logic and by ignoring the real issues.
Here it is, When i was born i was but a babe empty headed and illogical. I grew and learnt about the world from those i was close to, from my mother i picked up kindness and empathy from my father cynicism and pragmatism. I merged these with my own thoughts and a thousand outside influences and became a person of my own, i learnt how to think, how to question and how to discover stuff for myself but i also learnt how to get along with people, people taught me things and i developed into a man. Those friends which have taught me so much have made me who i am and are part of my very being -and i am part of theirs.
When i die and lay in the ground till the end of time my friends may go on living a while but eventually we'll all end up in gods hall awaiting eternal justice....
God will pick out some people who have been good (440,000 or something wasn't it? but lets assume thats nonsense for now and that i or someone i know has a chance of being picked) and some who have been bad, What if I alone among my friends have been holy enough to get upstairs, heaven would suck. Yeah i'ld make loads of new friends 'oh hi tomas de torquemada good to see you' but i couldn't enjoy heaven without my friends, knowing they're suffering in hell i couldn't go and peer over and laugh like I'm supposed too.
So heaven could only exist for me with my friends, i won't even get into the issue of what happens if someone who likes me wants me to be in their heaven area but i don't like them -another impossible paradox. If you've ever seen the thing where they prove that everyone in the world can be linked via 7people you'll know that this means if you could get your mates into heaven everyone in history will thus automatically be let into heaven.
One of the many theological answers to this paradox is that when you rise to heaven it's your soul not your earth form which goes, well my entire being is made up of my life experience -i remember my mother teaching me how to understand why people act when i predict someones actions, i can feel the long line of working class people in my family history as i do a hard days graft, not a spiritual power but by way of my upbringing - my grandmother had been brought up to do things herself, my father grew up learning how to fix his own cars and i have no aversion to greasy hands or sore muscles -I am the product of my upbringing. That doesn't leave a tangible part of my awareness left to enjoy heaven, and i was promised i'd enjoy it.
You can't take away the bit of me that loves my friends and family, you can't bring all my family to heaven and i can't enjoy heaven without them.
So, the very concept of eternal bliss is impossible for me to ever win -I might as well not even try, really i better have as much fun this life as possible while still trying to make sure what's left of me (i.e. my imprint in the future generations) is as positive as possible. Then i can enjoy the silent sleep of death.
Originally posted by thisguyrighthere
I dont know why people worry so much about whether or not there is a heaven or hell. Worse case scenario there is nothing so you best not waste the short time you do have. Make the most of it. Dont be an asshole.
Best case scenario, there is an afterlife. Dont waste your life here and get tossed to the less desirable place. Dont be an asshole.
It's pretty simple really. Dont be an asshole.
Everything else as far as life after death and god(s) and what not is completely moot when you boil it down to the root of it. Dont be an asshole. It just so happens that blowing yourself up on a bus or sniping an OBGYN are pretty asshole things to do.
Originally posted by lel1111
Sometimes our thoughts of heaven or hell, or nothing or whatever, are oftentimes based on one specific religious teaching. There are almost as many different views on this as there are people. Sometimes even within specific religions people interpret things differently. Many people think that Christianity is the one true religion; the only way. So that means the rest of the world population, of all times, will go to "hell?" Probably other religions think the same about all "other" religions.
I just hate to think that an all-loving God would allow such unimaginable, eternal suffering to so many people that mean well.
Only love is real.