Many atheists have blind faith in good & evil.

Originally posted by The Bald Champion
If you are looking for answers I suggest you narrow your theory.

BTW I think the laws of mankind are flexible much like your better worse assertion, more natural - like nature and existence itself.

I've already learned a lot from this thread but you are right I may learn more if I do narrow my scope.

For example I have learned that moral values are not only blanket rules like "stealing is wrong" but also from posts like yours that moral values can be (or at least are claimed to be) situational and different for each case. I don't at all understand how situation morals would work however. I suspect that to determine situational morals you would have to depend on a higher set of higher non-situational morals.

I suppose my theory has changed to be that those who believe in a moral value system are doing so based purely on emotion and not logic. Logic is a how we make decisions where we have data, but emotion is how we make decisions where we have little to no data. To me it makes sense simply to guess even when you have no data and that is why I believe I have blind faith and furthermore see it has being highly helpful to one's success.

Originally posted by truthquest
Yes, morals originate at least mostly from our genes.

Wrong.

Our morals - speaking of morality as a code of behaviour - are derived from our instinctive understanding of right and wrong. This understanding is encoded in our genes and expressed in instinctive moral behaviour; but our morals, which we have developed for ourselves as reasoning beings, are not. We speak of the biological bases of morality, we do not state that morality is biological.

From a purely logical standpoint, one should just dump what their genes are having them do and start doing what self-interest tells them to.

Instinct is basically the codification of the calculus of risk and reward you were going on about earlier. It represents the distilled learning from millions of years of decisions, some correct, most mistaken, that have made us what we are. By all means disregard them if your logic tells you better - and if you can. That is only possible to a degree, never entirely. And remember that your instincts contain the accumulated wisdom of all your ancestors, embedded in you as a set of operational routines. The chances of you knowing better what's good for you than they do are slim, to say the least.

"Logic is a higher form of reasoning than emotion(or faith)".

First you confuse instinct and intuition, now you get instinct mixed up with emotion! Are you sure you really understand what instinct is?

Emotion is the lever by which instinct modifies behaviour. It is not, in itself, instinct. Overcoming instinct is not the same as overcoming emotion. The latter demands only a certain degree of self-control. The former can only be achieved through years of conditioning.

A main function of logic is to correct our instinct when our instinct tells us to do things that are not in our best interest.

No. See immediately above.

For example, if we are running late to work and have to go to the bathroom, or logic often over-rides the emotional desire to go to the bathroom and delays the event until after we have clocked in.

Not logic. Toilet training. Again, see above.

And now >averts face; picks up quotation with tweezers<

Many if not most people have stolen at least one thing of value in the past, so it is not correct to single me out as someone who currently has a policy of stealing... the other day I walked past a nice looking group of tools [and did not steal them]...

I made no accusations against you. It was you who confessed that your CV contains the word 'thief' in it. Although your protestations that you're no worse than others fail to impress, I personally don't give a hoot whether you're happily reformed or busily engaged in planning your greatest heist yet. However, I was burgled a few weeks ago, and it has strengthened my instinctive antipathy towards people who steal from others.

reply to post by Astyanax


"By all means disregard them [your morals] if your logic tells you better - and if you can."

Everyone's logic frequently tells them to disregard their morals. And they listen to their logic. For example, some people hold the moral value "lying is wrong". Yet, the majority of the population tell "white lies" on a regular basis.
Source: abcnews.go.com...

Since most people have found logical reason to lie based on the article, then based on the choices they have made they hold the belief that "Lying is neither right nor wrong.".

[edit on 29-1-2009 by truthquest]