Does anybody really think that Israel is evil?

Do you think that the average Israeli wants to continue killing their Arab neighbors?

Israel had used it admittedly heavy hand to quell attacks that were targeting and terrorizing their citizens on a daily basis. Certainly, the death tolls were way out of proportion, but when you've got a neighboring country bombing you daily eventually you're going to get sick of it and stick back with brutal force.

Do you think your average Israeli greets with joy the news that scores of women and children were killed as a result of an air strike?

Certainly there are some in Israel who would like to see every Arab move to the neighboring Arab countries, and to hell with those who try to stay. Conversely, there are many in Palestine who would like to see every 'jew pig' 'sent back to the ovens.' (the words of one very vocal Arab-American activist).

In all reality, your average Israeli wants to live in peace, to coexist with their Arab cousins.

Hamas needs to disband, give way to a more moderate regime open to working with the Israelis. On the flip side, there are many war mongers in Israeli politics who will hopefully over the next few decades give way to more moderate, secular officials in high office.

It will take some time. The walls will come down when the suicide bombing stops, and the suicide bombing will stop when the two neighbors finally act together progressively, and most importantly secularly, to set aside their differences and work together for the common good of the region.

Israel has as much right to exist as the US, or Canada, or Australia or New Zealand, or any other nation with a native peoples who were oppressed for generations.

The moral of the story is radical Islam combined with radical Judaism is making a mess of the world situation.

Religion is at the root of all this, not land, not retribution. We need to take religion out of the equation. The ironic thing about all of it is that Jews and Muslims worship the same God, and God who was designed to unite everybody under a single Holy Spirit.

I'm sure I'm not saying anything revolutionary in this post, although I expect to be jumped on by the 'anti-zionist' crowd who would take offense if I pointed out their true, thinly veiled nature.

Israel is not evil, they are doing the job they are asked to do in this big wide conspiracy world.
The people of Israel are just like you or I, they have dreams for their children and hopes for the future.

People are not evil, foundations and political parties are evil, they have little reguard for anyone but themselves, your average citizen would find it very hard to do something evil.

reply to post by Monger


Not evil.

Insular, in-bred, self-centered, greedy, voracious, ruthless? Absolutely!

Holding the good of Zion above all else, without remorse or sympathy? Of course. (just look at the "victims" of Bernie (isn't that a good, wholesome Jewish name; 'like buttah') Madoff)

A danger to their selves and others (see parenthetical above)? I don't know; what do you think?

Deny Ignorance.

jw

Originally posted by jdub297
reply to post by Monger

 

Not evil.

Insular, in-bred, self-centered, greedy, voracious, ruthless? Absolutely!

Holding the good of Zion above all else, without remorse or sympathy? Of course. (just look at the "victims" of Bernie (isn't that a good, wholesome Jewish name; 'like buttah') Madoff)

A danger to their selves and others (see parenthetical above)? I don't know; what do you think?

Deny Ignorance.

jw

If I were to call you an anti-Semite, which you are, admit it, I'd be jumped on.

"OH NO!" they'd say. "He's an anti-Zionist! Typical Zionist response . "

I recognize that there's a difference between the two.

The majority of Madoff's victims are Jewish, what are you trying to imply?

Israel has every right to exist. It represents a bastion of modernity in a part of the world mostly stuck in the middle ages.

I don't dislike Islam, but I do happen to think that Muslim extremists are the biggest threat to our safety out there, short of, say, a pole shift or a gigantic meteor strike.

I want to see the Jewish State work in conjunction with the Arabs. That's my dream, of peace in the middle east. Nothing short of total security for Israel, and for freedom for the Palestinians.

Remember that the walls and checkpoints exist because extremists were blowing themselves up amongst crowds of civilians. I'm not going to argue the fact that Israel hasn't done some terrible things to the Palestinian people, that's clear.

Scores of civilians have been killed, and the situation just keeps getting worse.

Israel is one patch of land in a wide expanse of habitable land. Why so much fighting over it, you ask? Religion. The irony of that disgusts me.

[edit on 22-1-2009 by Monger]

[edit on 22-1-2009 by Monger]

I do not dispute Israel's "right to exist." But must the U.S.A. carry them and subsidize them forever?

When can a legitimate nation be expected to stand on it's own two feet?

Why is it permissible for them to steal from the hands that feed them? (You know Israeli supporters and Mossad steal secrets from their allies, right?)

Israel is NOT evil. Self-absorbed? More than any people or nation in history.

Show me an instance, just one, where the Nation of Israel or the Israeli people, have put someone else's interests above their own.

It has never, and will never, happen for the "chosen people" of Israel.

Deny Ignorance.

jw

reply to post by Monger

If I were to call you an anti-Semite, which you are, admit it, I'd be jumped on.

"OH NO!" they'd say. "He's an anti-Zionist! Typical Zionist response

. "

I recognize that there's a difference between the two.

The majority of Madoff's victims are Jewish, what are you trying to imply?

Israel has every right to exist. It represents a bastion of modernity in a part of the world mostly stuck in the middle ages.

I don't dislike Islam, but I do happen to think that Muslim extremists are the biggest threat to our safety out there, short of, say, a pole shift or a gigantic meteor strike.

I want to see the Jewish State work in conjunction with the Arabs. That's my dream, of peace in the middle east. Nothing short of total security for Israel, and for freedom for the Palestinians.

Remember that the walls and checkpoints exist because extremists were blowing themselves up amongst crowds of civilians. I'm not going to argue the fact that Israel hasn't done some terrible things to the Palestinian people, that's clear.

Scores of civilians have been killed, and the situation just keeps getting worse.

Israel is one patch of land in a wide expanse of habitable land. Why so much fighting over it, you ask? Religion. The irony of that disgusts me.

But of course you're entitled to your opinion without anyone thinking less of you. Islam is no threat to our way of life, people are. Yo face the same type of danger with people like John Hagee than you do with a Muslim. Blame religion, I don't know. People are people, Jews, Muslims, Christians, Atheists, no-one is innocent. The few that are, are too dead to care.

Besides who isn't a militant, or freedom-fighter, or even a terrorist in an occupation?

reply to post by Monger

Israel is one patch of land in a wide expanse of habitable land. Why so much fighting over it, you ask? Religion. The irony of that disgusts me.

Israel formally Palestine used to be home to Muslims, Christians and a small Jewish minority who had co-existed for many generations. I think the issue is that, this "one patch of land" had people living throughout it prior to the huge influx of Jews. The people who occupied the land and the homes in it, were kicked out to make way for new people who for generations lived in Europe. These people were persecuted in Europe, Europe should have componsated them with land not the middle-east.

My family lost their home and all their belongings in 1948. Without componsation, without purchase of their land or home. The situation is a religious one because it was overthrown by a religion. It is called a Jewish state for a reason.

I'm of the opinion their Government is evil, but the people are just like you and I. They just want to live in peace.

Unfortunately, these days Governments' idea of peace is forcing others into submission.

Originally posted by Monger
If I were to call you an anti-Semite, which you are, admit it, I'd be jumped on.

Lets get something perfectly clear.

It is entirely possible to question the motives and actions of the Israeli government without wanting to see all jewish people dead/opressed/enslaved.

There is a clear difference between questioning jewish peoples right to exist, and questioning the actions of their government.

Originally posted by neformore

Originally posted by Monger
If I were to call you an anti-Semite, which you are, admit it, I'd be jumped on.

Lets get something perfectly clear.

It is entirely possible to question the motives and actions of the Israeli government without wanting to see all jewish people dead/opressed/enslaved.

There is a clear difference between questioning jewish peoples right to exist, and questioning the actions of their government.

Well said. Im tired of people calling other people things like anti-semite or anti-American, or terrorist, simply because they dont agree with the actions of the collective. Ralph Waldo Emerson said

A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds, adored by little statesmen and philosophers and divines. With consistency a great soul has simply nothing to do. He may as well concern himself with his shadow on the wall. Speak what you think now in hard words, and to-morrow speak what to-morrow thinks in hard words again, though it contradict every thing you said to-day.

Evil...? It depends. Is the State of Israel fighting to defend what is theirs or are they fighting to protect ill gotten gains?

I don't know the answer to this myself. But if Israel is truly defending what is rightfully theirs, then Israel is not Evil. On the contrary...It would be the enemies of Israel that are profoundly Evil.

So, Israel's enemies will continue to die violently until the stars burn from the sky and they have themselves to thank for this situation.

Israel is evil as it permits apartheid ..

If Israel and your governments are evil...it means you are evil by proxy because you are forced to play the game of evil to survive. Your being is programmed by what you were taught. These teachings eventually make its way into your DnA to where you are on auto-pilot. We perpetuate the lie our rulers and authority figures gave us. We teach one another no matter how much we vow to do it differently.

You would have to spend as much time on deprogramming yourselves as you do on making money to live to effectively break free.

The longer you make excuses for Israel and other nations whether its group A against B or group B against A you will only have more of the same.

On anti-Israeli rhetorics - it is fine to critisize Israel, it is not antisemitism. State of Israel is not without problems. So just as US,Iran,Syria,UK, Russia,.. and countless of other countries can be critisized so can Israel be critisized and even disliked. Of course just as in other cases not only labels, but showing actual examples of Israeli wrong-doing will make it a real case.
However claiming that population of Israel is "Insular, in-bred, self-centered, greedy, voracious, ruthless" or other nonsence is not anti-Israeli rhetorics. It is either total ignorance of demographics of Israel and its social structure ,or racial rhetorics (aka antisemitism in this case).
sadchild01:
Care to provide example to apparthaid?Just i fail to see it, living in the same Israel.

Do I think Israel is evil?
No - it is just a state doing its best to provide what it thinks its people desire.

Do I think Jews are evil?
No - they are just poor brainwashed peoples enslaved thousands of years ago by racist and genocidal leaders and their scribes' words.

Do I think Judaism is evil?
Yes; Unequivocally, yes.

The Jewish religion is organized anti-socialism, anti-libertarianism, and anti-humanism. It is a religion that is vehemently opposed to inter-community cooperation, philosophical growth, and spiritual advancement.

Judaism is a religion born of conquest, deceit, theft, and genocide. The religion is the historical whitewash (propaganda) for an ancient tribe's ungodly and inhuman behavior.

The Jewish people are a group of people ham-strung by their own ancient absurdities and lies. Instead of living in the real world, they seek to create some imaginary holy world described in their holy books.

Their ignorant fanatical adherence to these monumentally stupid written works is the Jewish people's only failing.

Jon

[edit on 1.23.2009 by Voxel]

reply to post by ZeroKnowledge

israeli apartheid:
www.abovetopsecret.com...

reply to post by sadchild01


Israel is not an apartheid country:
link:
me.
If you got any points to prove your position, exept a declaration by group of respected people from South Africa without any examples for such or an incredibly weird suggestion that wall between Israel and Palestinian terrirtories (what is supposed to be two different countries) is an apartheid (US wall on border with Mexico is clearly a sign of an apartheid of Mexicans in US or simply a border?) - then my link is correct and yours is not.
Once i will see this kind of sign in Israel - South African politicians and various activists can draw analogies:
"http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:durbanSign1989.jpg"
Edit - link problems.

[edit on 23-1-2009 by ZeroKnowledge]

[edit on 23-1-2009 by ZeroKnowledge]

reply to post by Voxel


So am i to understand that refusal of Christian to join a wide multicultural Roman way of life is ok, Muslims effort to preserve their identity in Europe or any religious group/culure's attempt to preserve its way of life is a normal thing but when Jews are concerned their refusal to assimilate is a crime or proves their evil nature?

reply to post by Monger


Where to begin? Actually, I have just about ran out of patience for Israeli apologists and propaganda merchants and can't be bothered to play their stupid games on here any more so I will just answer the title question and you can search my previous posts for the reasoning behind it:

Probably, yes (but that doesn't mean every individual is).

reply to post by ZeroKnowledge


I am actually glad you brought that up because I didn't mention the other religions of ignorance and control directly though I did have them as much in mind when I wrote my previous post.

What do Islam and Christianity have in common? Judaism.

The fervor with which I oppose Judaism is match only by the fervor with which I oppose Christianity and Islam. The fact that the illegitimate children of a corrupt and genocidal institution are themselves corrupt and genocidal does not come as a surprise to me.

The only thing that surprises me is that someone as intelligent as Jesus really thought he take a terrible thing such as Judaism and make it honorable, moral, and a force for positive change.

In that respect, at least Mohammad was more of a realist in his use of Judaism as an excuse for conquest and subjugation of other tribes. The irony is that he also tried to make Judaism less violent and genocidal. Look at how well that worked out!

Jon

[edit on 1.23.2009 by Voxel]