Warning! Enlightenment is Dangerous!

reply to post by watcher1960


I dont think that is the point, putting aside wether or not the bible mentions anything like that, which im quite sure it doesnt.

If you have any beliefs in religions then your basically going to have problems reaching or coping with enlightenment.

Any sort of warnings or fearfulness in anything is bad.

Simply put.

reply to post by watcher1960



or maybe because you will encounter something they dont want you to be aware of?

I also think that once you reach "True Enlightenment" you realise that Good and Evil/Light-Dark can co-exist within yourself, so you can either use your God like knowledge for purely Good or Evil or maybe theres even a middle way point?

Middle way actually seems to make more sense if one is to become truly enlightened.

reply to post by markjaxson


Thats true to a point i think. I think once you can acknowledge you have a darker side you can't escape morality. Like, you are REALLY are aware or what is good and bad, and YOUR concience really is YOURS. I do recognose this, and i try to see the good in everything and everyone and can often see why people do bad things, sometimes i even feel sympathetic, however if i see they are fully aware of their actions i feel sadness and disappontment,resentment but never hate. Apart from that, my emotions seem to have got a whole lot stronger. When i'm sad, i could cry a river. It is never for myself (sympathetic) it is always in empathy.

just a little something else to consider;



Ezekiel:

The Bible may contain the oldest recorded case of temporal lobe epilepsy. Ezekiel, the prophet whose visions are recorded in a book of the Old Testament, apparently had all the classic signs of the condition.

Earlier in 2001, Eric Altschuler, a neuroscientist at the University of California at San Diego, claimed that the Biblical strongman Samson may have been the earliest known sufferer of antisocial personality disorder. Now he says that records in the Bible reveal that Ezekiel, who lived about 2600 years ago, showed extreme classic symptoms of temporal lobe epilepsy.

People with the disease experience partial seizures, often accompanied by a dreamy feeling that things are not quite as they should be. Patients are often misdiagnosed with psychiatric problems. Neurologically, Ezekiel displayed some obvious signs of epilepsy, such as frequent fainting spells and episodes of not being able to speak.

source: www.newscientist.com...

other prophets with signs of epilepsy:

www.epilepsy.com...
www.mindhacks.com...

"With TLE, I see things slightly different than before. I have visions and images that normal people don’t have. Some of my seizures are like entering another dimension, the closest to religious or spiritual feelings I’ve ever had. Epilepsy has given me a rare vision and insight into myself, and sometimes beyond myself, and it has played to my creative side. Without TLE, I would not have begun to sculpt."

This testimony comes from a woman who suffers from — and, obviously, often exults in — temporal lobe epilepsy. This condition (TLE, for short), is caused by unusual electrical activity in the brain’s temporal lobes A significant proportion of people with TLE report that their seizures often bring on extraordinary experiences of transcendent wonder, luminous insight — or, at times, harrowing, uncanny fear.

Take, for example, the numerous reported cases of "alien abduction." TLE researcher Eve LaPlante has noted that many abductees feel mild, epileptic-like symptoms just before they are "captured." Some abductees feel heat on one side of their faces, hear a ringing in their ears, and see flashes of light prior to an abduction. Others report a cessation of sound and feeling, or an overwhelming feeling of apprehension. All of this is typical of certain kinds of epileptic seizures. In fact, LaPlante suggests that the most famous abductee of our time, best-selling author Whitley Strieber, suffers from TLE.

www.science-spirit.org...





[edit on 22-1-2009 by MCoG1980]

Originally posted by MCoG1980
Thats true to a point i think. I think once you can acknowledge you have a darker side you can't escape morality. Like, you are REALLY are aware or what is good and bad, and YOUR concience really is YOURS.

Exactly 100%.

Sounds harsh but, If you do Good then Evil will do something back to regain the balance, if you do Evil then Good will do something back to regain the balance.

I dont like using Good and Evil terms all the time but you can always change this to Light/Dark, Love/Fear etc.



[edit on 22-1-2009 by markjaxson]

reply to post by markjaxson


Yeah, that would be karma

Nice to hear that someone else experiences are very similar to my own.

reply to post by MCoG1980


Haha yep that would be Karma, but theres something beyond karma that isnt a choice.

Best way to describe what im saying is fundamentally we are perfect beings outside of this incarnation.

Originally posted by OmegaPoint
There is a point at which man is NOT meant to penetrate, at grave peril to his immortal soul.

There is a mystery of God, and a place in man (at the crown chakra) where that mystery and the living Spirit of God which accompanies it, must be dilineated from the "little I am" of being human, and to cross that line involves an abomination, since what is above is perfect, holy and pure, and what arises from below, is corruptible.

It is akin to cross the line from "I am a child of God" to "I am God".

Trust me on this - you don't want to go there or try to walk that sacred ground of being, it's best left as it is - an eternal mystery.

Therefore, on approach to the mystery, there is a threshold which we are NOT meant to cross into.

Friends, keep your spiritual scullcap on your head at all times!

Actually, if you think you are the father and not a child of the father, then you are not very enlightened. It means you have seen the father within yourself, but have failed to realize the father in others.

So what you are describing is actually not a higher state of enlightenment, but a lower one.

To become "the father", would mean "You" as an individual would cease to exist. As the father is the sum of all consciousness/soul, you can not keep a single individual consciousness/soul and the higher self at the same time. Therefore, if any man claims to be the father, or christ alone - he is lieing.

This is why you can also not see the entirety of god. Because this existence as the son/daughter is based on a limited perception, and to actually see the father would cause one to lose your individuality/soul.

Now I know people like to think Jesus said this. But he doesn't. He always makes the distinction between him and the father. However, the father does speak through him. The words you hear from Jesus most times is not the words of Jesus, they are the words of the father who speaks through him. And he does this for your benefit, not his own. Because he already knows the truth for himself.

The deepest you can go down the "rabbit hole" and still maintain individuality from my experience is to see only you and the father. The 2 of you. You can at that point understand why it is 1, but you can not actually take on the perspective of the father and maintain your individuality. When this happened to me, the first words out of my mouth were - I am god, and I am arguing with myself. Since then I've found the bible, and so this same thing I would now express in the manner of John 14:20. At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you. That is what I realized on that day.

So to see the father within yourself and deny and not see in others I would say is not a higher form of enlightment, but a lower form of enlightment.

It's like true knowledge is not measured based on what you know, but rather on the questions you ask. Because the questions you ask are based not only on the knowledge you have, but also on the insight to see the next step or beyond that knowledge. To know the father is in you and not in others is to not have the insight to see it in others. To not realize there is a bigger intelligence and consciousness than your own is not a higher form of enlightenment.

However, I do see that others have not realized it yet, and that the father doesn't speak in them. But when people speak certain truths, then I know they have meet the father and that the father is speaking through them. This is how I recognized Jesus as being true when he says the father speaks through him.




[edit on 22-1-2009 by badmedia]

Originally posted by markjaxson

Originally posted by MCoG1980
Thats true to a point i think. I think once you can acknowledge you have a darker side you can't escape morality. Like, you are REALLY are aware or what is good and bad, and YOUR concience really is YOURS.

Exactly 100%.

Sounds harsh but, If you do Good then Evil will do something back to regain the balance, if you do Evil then Good will do something back to regain the balance.

I dont like using Good and Evil terms all the time but you can always change this to Light/Dark, Love/Fear etc.



[edit on 22-1-2009 by markjaxson]

There is only one problem i have with Good & Evil.

Whats to decide what is good..and what is evil? I think that there is no such as good or evil, but rather intent. ever herd the saying One mans hero is another's war criminal? To someone something may be good, to another person it might be bad...which one is right?

For example, 9/11. The "attackers" of 9/11 thought of it as a good thing and the right thing to do. On the other hand the rest of the united states felt that this was a bad thing, and a terrible thing to do. which one is right? I think the concept of Good and & Evil is just a label to place on someone in an morally objective society to point out deviants and what not so that you can keep the masses the same. Of course I'm not advocating doing bad things at the extent of others i believe that there is a Universal evil, and that is the physical, mental, and spiritual damage to an innocent person. But you see....that is MY opinion of an Universal Evil. it might not be to others.

This of course is just my opiion on the idea of Good and Evil.

reply to post by bushidomason


I disagree. You are here to learn good and evil, to gain knowledge. You can not understand hot without understanding cold. You have to experience both to actually understand either. Without both you are ignorant to the the truth. Love/Hate, Dark/Light and so on.

However, what you claim is that if you sow good things, you will reap bad things. And that is simply not true. If it appears this way, then it is a result of your own hypocrisy. You did bad, and so you reaped bad.

Generally this is done by things you feel are "justified". When they are not. Vengeance is mine sayeth the Lord. You are never justified. If you feel it is justified for you to kill another human because they killed a human, as it is not your place to do so, then the only thing you are sowing is to kill yourself. This is to be a hypocrite.

And into a world of hypocrisy and ignorance is where evil takes you. If you say it is justified to kill because of 9/11, then you are in fact being evil and doing evil. This is why Jesus calls people hypocrites and tells them to judge not. Because when you judge in what you feel is justified, you are committing sins yourself.

You do not rid the world of evil by fighting it with evil. You will merely replace the evil with your own greater evil.

While there is both good and evil present here, to have wisdom is to have the ability to choose correctly. And that would be to choose "good". And when you actually have the knowledge as a basis of the wisdom, this you will do. The rich man in the eyes of god is the man with wisdom. The man who knows both good and evil, but chooses and walks the good path. The man who seeks the truth, but then also acts accordingly.



[edit on 22-1-2009 by badmedia]

reply to post by bushidomason


Yeah i agree with you on everything you mentioned in that post.

Its almost like you described what i meant better than i could do myself.

Originally posted by badmedia
reply to post by bushidomason

 

I disagree. You are here to learn good and evil, to gain knowledge. You can not understand hot without understanding cold. You have to experience both to actually understand either. Without both you are ignorant to the the truth. Love/Hate, Dark/Light and so on.

However, what you claim is that if you sow good things, you will reap bad things. And that is simply not true. If it appears this way, then it is a result of your own hypocrisy. You did bad, and so you reaped bad.

Generally this is done by things you feel are "justified". When they are not. Vengeance is mine sayeth the Lord. You are never justified. If you feel it is justified for you to kill another human because they killed a human, as it is not your place to do so, then the only thing you are sowing is to kill yourself. This is to be a hypocrite.

And into a world of hypocrisy and ignorance is where evil takes you. If you say it is justified to kill because of 9/11, then you are in fact being evil and doing evil. This is why Jesus calls people hypocrites and tells them to judge not. Because when you judge in what you feel is justified, you are committing sins yourself.

You do not rid the world of evil by fighting it with evil. You will merely replace the evil with your own greater evil.

While there is both good and evil present here, to have wisdom is to have the ability to choose correctly. And that would be to choose "good". And when you actually have the knowledge as a basis of the wisdom, this you will do. The rich man in the eyes of god is the man with wisdom. The man who knows both good and evil, but chooses and walks the good path. The man who seeks the truth, but then also acts accordingly.



[edit on 22-1-2009 by badmedia]

But you must see you're decisions of Good and Evil are your own. Everyone has their beliefs of good and evil. What I'm trying to get at here is what is the true only Good and Evil? If there is a differentiation between the people of this planet on what is Good and what is Evil, how will we ever know what is truly Good and what is truly Evil?

You can't pull stuff from the bible and say because this says this, this is the way it is, because not everyone in the planet lives by or goes by the bible. There is no true definition of Good and Evil, because it is subjective in nature to the individual.

We label each action Good or Evil from our "knowledge" of our past actions and experiences. We will choose differently on each action due to our individual preference.

All I'm saying is that there isn't an Objective true definition of Good and Evil.

Good and Evil is a subjective label placed on a deed or action due to the individuals beliefs, traditions, experiences and sociological views that he or she finds fit for the same.

of course this is all IMO.

reply to post by OmegaPoint


Here is some inlightenment i might not like. There is no god to me and if there is its all realit. No imaginary conches being juging every actiion just cause and what ever happens.
We have no souls. Just a complex intertwined coduct of nurves and nurons that move energy. ( it make the little world you see and you react 80% of the time on what you see. meaning light impacts the light sensitive flesh on your head and moves you in the way you are trained to reacted.)
Sence your were born you been trained my friend. Just ask your mom and dad. The wird food comes up when your hungry hey. That was in your training remember. Its not in your hed though. Its in your energy and the way it goes through the resisters.

oh and don't drink the cool aid

[edit on 22-1-2009 by eightpoundworld]

How is this for enlightment

There's a simple story of David and Goliath. A young boy and a giant. And that boy killed that giant with a sling and stone right into the middle of his forehead.

Now if you believe in the bible than you should immediately see the symbolism here and what we are to think about having a third eye.

reply to post by iamnot



Sorry, i dont believe in the bible, do you, who's word are you taking for that? Could it be that the people writing that had these awakenings also, except today people are ridiculed, back then they listened


Back on topic, the danger. Well i may not be alone in thinking about the fire being dangerous from the Kundalini (i still believe epilepsy also) - it is claimed to be the probable cause of spontaneous human combustion:

www.uri-geller.com...

Originally posted by bushidomason
But you must see you're decisions of Good and Evil are your own. Everyone has their beliefs of good and evil. What I'm trying to get at here is what is the true only Good and Evil? If there is a differentiation between the people of this planet on what is Good and what is Evil, how will we ever know what is truly Good and what is truly Evil?

You can't pull stuff from the bible and say because this says this, this is the way it is, because not everyone in the planet lives by or goes by the bible. There is no true definition of Good and Evil, because it is subjective in nature to the individual.

We label each action Good or Evil from our "knowledge" of our past actions and experiences. We will choose differently on each action due to our individual preference.

All I'm saying is that there isn't an Objective true definition of Good and Evil.

Good and Evil is a subjective label placed on a deed or action due to the individuals beliefs, traditions, experiences and sociological views that he or she finds fit for the same.

of course this is all IMO.

Simply not true. Most people how operate on a lower level of thinking(decieved) may believe this to be true, but it is not. Sure, you are pretty much expected to make mistakes, but also to learn from them.

You will reap what you sow. What you have to actually look at is your actions. Realizing that they are never "justified". Rather than saying I am justified in doing an action that is normally "evil", realize you are still committing that action.

Only when people try to justify their actions does this confusion arise. I tell you simply there is no justification, there is no excuse.

You have to actually be the change you want to see. Reaping what you sow means the universe is somewhat like a mirror. Most people keep trying to change the image they see in the universe, but fail to realize they need to start with themselves that projects that image out in the first place.

This is why hypocrites never see or get anywhere. They can see the evil in everyone but themselves. To see your own hypocrisy, put yourself in the other perspective. And then see how would you like it if someone did the same to you. Then you can see your own evil.

Btw, yes this is repeated by Jesus in the bible. But I did not learn from the bible, nor do you actually need the bible. I learned from the father. I call Christians the church of Satan(church of evil).

There is a level in which there is no good and evil. Where evil serves a higher purpose. But that is not the path for the wise man.

[edit on 22-1-2009 by badmedia]

Do this. Imagine a society where government and laws are not needed. How would people in this kind of a society need to act towards each other? How do they need to act towards each other? If you do such, I'll bet you'll come up with a society that acts like Jesus does. To see and understand this is to believe for the very works sake.

This is how the father presented this to me. I wasn't told - go be like Jesus. I was given understanding like this. When I look at how people would have to act towards each other, then you can see the way of Jesus very easily. Not judging and punishing each other. And so then because you reap what you sow, or because of how the universe is like a mirror, if you want to actually get such change, then you must actually be that change.

If you still being evil did not follow this. Then how can you expect to have such a society? You would be the corruption in the society. The evil, and then the entire society is no longer possible. Thus why you had to be removed from the garden, to protect the way of life of those who did not have evil in them. And you won't be getting back in either until you become wise and make the right choices.

Honestly, it's not that hard to live by gods laws. It really just means live and let live. When you actually understand the truth, then it's even easier. When you understand the truth, you will know why to kill another person is not just a crime, but a sin against god.

Where does God say knowledge/enlightenment is evil? I don't recall it being one of the Deadly Sins. Couldn't enlightenment bring us closer to God?

This thought would have left us in the Dark Ages and still believe the world is flat.

Originally posted by KSigMason
Where does God say knowledge/enlightenment is evil? I don't recall it being one of the Deadly Sins. Couldn't enlightenment bring us closer to God?

This thought would have left us in the Dark Ages and still believe the world is flat.

He doesn't.

The rich man in the eyes of god is the man with wisdom.

"The ability to discern or judge what is true, right, or lasting; insight."

Wisdom is made up of knowledge, understanding and experience needed to make those correct decisions.

Wiki definition:

Wisdom is knowledge, understanding, experience, discretion, and intuitive understanding, along with a capacity to apply these qualities well towards finding solutions to problems. It is the judicious and purposeful application of knowledge that is valued in society. To some extent the terms wisdom and intelligence have similar and overlapping meanings. The status of wisdom or prudence as a virtue is recognized in cultural, philosophical and religious sources.

The entire reason those who wish to control need to manipulate and keep knowledge hidden is so that the people can not make wise decisions for themselves.

This thread went from mumbo... to alotta mumbo jumbo.

I mean alot.