Obama to Lift Ban on Funding for Groups Providing Abortions Overseas

reply to post by Notroh est

Im arrogant and ignorant for taking an opposing position to yours?

No, you’re arrogant for thinking you can judge everyone, thinking that you can define what murder and a Christian are. Only your “God” can define what a true follower is, you think every Christian who disagrees with your opinion on abortion is not a Christian? Oh please, look who is being the huge hypocrite. I’m not putting you down because I oppose your opinion but that is exactly what you are doing to Christians who disagree with you. Nice try.

Christ is my God and his words are well documented, you should try and read some so you might have a better understanding of Christianity

I’ve read it. I've read both bibles. And the book of Mormon. And several other religious text, even the crazier scientologist stuff. You do realize that there are two religious text that your religion stems from, and one was written and passed down for another religion entirely right? If you think you understand the bible or Christianity or God then stop confusing the three, God exist without the bible and Christianity, part of the bible (or bibles) exist without being meant for your religion, your religion just uses and interprets pieces of it, and badly at that. What’s that quote from Lewis Black? “You never see a rabbi interpreting the New Testament so why do Preachers think they can interpret the old”? Something like that….






[edit on 22-1-2009 by rapinbatsisaltherage]

Why do keep telling me who my God is and what my religion is? This denotes arrogance to me
And secondly your view on Christianity is distorted at best, which would denote ignorance to me
Two bibles? You mean OT and NT yes, well I’m very aware of Christ’s Jewish heritage and also the Jewish heritage of all the disciples and Paul, I’m aware that Peter’s journeyed to Rome where the Church was founded there as Christ himself told Peter he was the foundation of his Church on earth
The only Church founded by Christ
If you view the book of mormon or scientology as Christianity I’d say you are indeed ignorant, they are both the religions of the people who founded them Mr Smith and Mr Hubbard, just as Lutheranism is the religion of Luther
I admit completely I have no authority to judge anyone, but I have a right to call a stone a stone, and if I think scraping an unborn baby from the wall of its mothers fetus, an unnatural elimination of life then I will do so

reply to post by Notroh est


Wow, you misunderstood everything I stated so badly that I do not know where to begin. I’m actually feeling a little surprised. I’ve had a lot of debates on ATS but never with someone who so grossly misunderstood every sentence almost. Either you don’t understand what I’m talking about in regards to religion, bible, and my other commentary or you’re just very tired and read my post wrong. I’m hoping the latter is true otherwise… I’m not sure how to respond to someone who doesn’t comprehend what I’m attempting to discuss. Would you like me to go through it all over again? Perhaps in a longer post where I spell everything out neatly for you?

You complain that Obama spends money "ending life" outside the US. But I don't hear you complaing about the billions and billions of dollars spent in Iraq ("ending life" as well)

reply to post by Notroh est


I notice you didn’t respond to your own arrogance and hypocrisy that I called you out on, but that’s natural. That’s usually the kind of dismissal I get from your types on the board, too stubborn to even acknowledge to themselves when they’re going in duplicitous circles.



[edit on 22-1-2009 by rapinbatsisaltherage]

No that I'm anti-abortion... I'm just anti-government funding (for pretty much anything other than law and order, defence, infrastructure). Like the US needs to print more money to send abroad... whatever happened to sorting your own house out first?

You voted for it, now suck it up and live with it Religious "Right". The Dems screamed bloody murder when you went into Iraq, now its your turn to scream bloody murder when they do something you oppose.

I failed to respond to you where you pointed out my own arrogance and hypocrisy did I? I’m sorry I must have missed where you pointed that out…
I don’t think it’s necessary for you to describe my religion and my God and what I should be believing in to me any more thanks anyways
But please do tell me your definition of murder, I think that is the ground of our contention, the point where you see me are an arrogant hypocrite and where I see you as in denial

reply to post by Notroh est


Again you miss the point. This is getting a little ridiculous. I pointed out your hypocrisy because you keep saying that you do not judge, and that I am judging you or putting you down for disagreeing when that is exactly what you have demonstrated in this thread with your attitude toward Christians that don’t align their beliefs with yours.

its completely of the thread topic. but its quite basic if a person claims to be Christian the person should follow the words and teachings of Christ, and act accordingly
not the words of J Smith, Hubbard, Luther, Marx, Lincoln or Obama
if a person claims to be Christian even preaches Christianity even a Catholic Priest who seems Christian but does not act as a Christian i would judge them as a non-Christian
if Obama says he is Christian yet endorses and funds mass murder I don’t think he is Christian, I think he is delusional

most of the abortions i know of, were conducted at extremely early stages of the pregnancies...

you cant seriously expect people (especailly young) to be "responsible" with contraceptives, or that they will work everytime...

although the prevention of unwanted pregnancies is easier and seemingly, "morally" superiour...

people have the right to choose abortion...

and thats important

reply to post by Notroh est


It’s impossible to entirely follow the words of your bible, it contradicts itself. As for following Jesus’ teachings completely this is also an unattainable goal. No human is perfect, that’s the point of penitence, you have no right to say anyone else’s interpretation or sins that need penitence are any worse than your own. That’s your lord’s decision to make.

[edit on 22-1-2009 by rapinbatsisaltherage]

Originally posted by Notroh est
More life has been terminated by abortions in the last 30 years then life lost in all the wars in history
The most dangerous place on earth to be right now is inside a mother’s womb
The most modest estimate of world abortions

Approximately 26 million legal and 20 million illegal abortions were performed worldwide in 1995
www.guttmacher.org...

So around 46 million just in one year! Times that by 30
1380 million and that’s modest! and not taking into account the increase of abortion rates over the last 14 years

I don’t think the supporters of abortion realize its murder but most just don’t want to admit it because the blood is on their hands
Anyone who openly supports it is not a Christian and Obama has shown his true colors with this his first act as President

hmmm....maybe we should start to address why so many women have decided that they don't want to bring a baby into their world??

I don't like wars...especially ones in far away lands that really weren't in much position to harm us....like Iraq!! seems, my tax money was used for that......what's the difference between this and the idea that the gov't shouldn't force you to pay for adivice on abortion because you don't believe in abortion? Do you believe in torture? I can think of alot of things the government does with my money that I think is morally wrong.....
And, well, I've felt the need to take action a few times because of it.....
I went beyond the words, the rhotoric, and I did what I could to take the money from them! I stopped buying all that unnecessary junk....less buying=less taxes on those sales=less money for the gov't to take! and I decreased my earnings, again, less taxes...

you don't like the gov't sending a ton of money to other countries, personally I don't, mainly because at this point all this money is being borrowed! If I was to borrow a mere thousand to help my neighbor, I would consider myself as being irresponsible....
but....want to talk about the outrageous cost involved in that nice new US Embassy in Iraq?? I still think it's purpose if to be a nice luxury mansion for one of Bush's cronies after whoever it is has to flee the US to avoid prosecution!

you can't see any possible time when it might be reasonable for some of these organizations to bring up abortion as an option to a pregnacy....no health danger is too great, no proverty too extreme.
I love this good ole compassionate conservatism that has been displayed the past eight years or so!!

tell ya what, when I see that compassionate conservatism being extended to those poor children that you insist should be brought into this world to the extent that it's been extended to those "poor" ceo's of companies like AIG, then I will listen to your gripe about how our little pittence of money that actually goes to advising women in these countries on birth control is against your moral code!
Heck, if you ask me there hasn't been much that's been done the past decade or so by the government that hasn't been against my moral code! and yet, they are still using my money regardless of what I think is moral....
why should your moral code be treated any differently than mine in their eyes?

I’m glad we can agree on this and totally!
If a person repents truly a wholly to Christ then forgiveness is theirs as only Christ can grant it, for he won the victory over all and every sin by carrying his cross to Calvary and having his innocent palms nailed to it for our sins
But if people don’t see abortion as a sin then I despair for those people
And that we can not agree on

Originally posted by paxnatus

Obama to Lift Ban on Funding for Groups Providing Abortions Overseas

www.foxnews.com

President Obama will continue the back-and-forth of presidents before him by using the Roe v. Wade anniversary to allow non-governmental organizations working abroad to use U.S. funding to give counseling on or provide abortions.

President Obama will issue an executive order on Thursday reversing the Bush administration policy that bans the use of federal dollars by non-govermental organizations that discuss or provide abortions outside of the United States.

Obama will sign the executive order on the 36th anniversary of the landmark Roe v. Wade Supreme Court ruling that legalized abortion in all 50 states.

(visit the link for the full news article)

Because only AMericans are so backwards when it comes to abortions - the rest of the world has evolved - Americans dont even believe in evolution, yet alone practice it, No wonder you have 15th century ethics.

Dawnstar I agree with what you are saying about the government wasting abhorrent amounts of money on death and destruction on vainglorious pursuits
And now America is suffering economically for those poor choices but the worst hasn’t even arrived yet
My personal opinion on why abortion is happening in the western world is GREED that stoic human trait
It began when families began establishing duel incomes 40 odd years back, to gain an economic advantage, wealth grew, but with it greed spread, inflation set in
And eventually two incomes (and good incomes) became necessary to establish a family
It became tougher for family easier for abortion, now its second nature for a young woman and the first thought of a young man if he even hears of pregnancy
It is rife in the western world to the point were indigenous Europeans are in decline in Europe! And America, Australia are the same
The influx of third world peoples into western nations has been just as shocking as the rate of abortions in those nations
I see abortion as social cultural and national suicide, as well as anti Christian and murder
And now Obama is forcing it on other nations to even out the death rate
As for my moral code as a Christian I don’t think the Governments of the west will ever return to the Church that nurtured the institutions they take for granted
I see a continuation of the passive policy becoming an overtly violent anti Christian movement world wide and in the west
my Lord alluded to it two thousand years ago, so I am not surprised just saddened by what I see

reply to post by Notroh est


ummm....so it's greed that drove women into the workforce...and that caused inflation and a rise in unemployment and all that, it cause the need of two income families, and that causes women to want more abortions....

one problem....I've been around a half of century, my mom's greatest aspiration was that I would find a nice rich man, marry him and he would take care of me, and her....when it came to money for college entrance exams, it was there for my brother.....when it came to me, I was told the prince charming story....

my mom worked for much of my childhood....SHE HAD TO!! come to think of it, so didn't my grandmother...and her mother, along with her sisters way back in the 1800's worked in their home making quilts and such and selling them those women who did luck out and marry rich young men and could afford to by them.
there was nothing wrong with these women wanting the same opportunities, the same pay as their male counter parts...what the heck they had the same needs!! they had families depending on them for their housing, their food, ect.

I'm kind of getting the impression that not only are you totally against abortion, but you are also against women being in the workplace? well, hate to tell ya this, but it was industrialization that did this one, not greed. before industrialization, you had millions of women around this country with weaving looms, sewing machines, and all kinds of things making these products for their and their family's livelihood. machines were invented that made it cheaper and faster to do it in the factory, and well, they had to move to where the jobs were, usually getting a pittance of what they were making before! probably because "religion" had centuries to embed into the minds of the people that the woman were intended by God to be dependant on the men, that she didn't need that much money, she had a husband supporting her, or if she didn't she should have! add to that the idea that had been fostered for centuries that women were so much less than men, well....sorry.....
motherhood is treated as a curse, people who have been kept in a dependant state are soon to become subservient, of lesser value...
and well....tell me, how all this is gonna encourage today's modern women to have a baby?? It's children that puts the women in that dependant state to begin with!

remember, that same bible puts the greater woe on those who causeth the transgression! how many men have run from the obligation to their families? heck this happened to my mother before she married my dad...just up and split and never heard from again....happened to my grandmother also.....
how many of you men now are giving 150 million reasons why you should have to pay your child support? you don't think that women see this and know, the father of their baby could possibly do the same?

and tell me, how many of you men after you and your wife have come home from a hard days work plop your tushes into the chairs while mom runs around like a chicken with her head cut off trying to help the kids with their homework, cook your dinner, get you your beer, and clean up the kitchen, bath the kids, and on and on, and then you still expect her to be up before you with breakfast in hand?

by the way....I don't see where obama is forcing it on other nations. I've read a few stories where these organizations have come in provided birth control to the women, and well, they have also provided loans and such for the women to group together, work together making something and selling it worldwide...and because of this, their whole community is better!
china is the only one that I know of that is actually forcing women to abort babies, and gee...they are such good friends of bush and buddies, we are now practically owned by them!

and I see you didn't comment about those times when abortion just might be the most logical, most humane thing to do....
what the heck, do you really think it's proper that all women be willing to sacrifice their lives to bring another baby into the world? what about those mothers who are living the life I described above, who live on less than five hours sleep, who are working 40 or more hours a day to come home to grumpy husbands demanding dinner, children who need to be cared for, houses than need to be cleaned, ect. ect.......tell me, just what kind of "dad" that man is gonna make after she is dead and he has not only the children he had to take care of, but another one, and well....one less wage earning in the household.

like I said, address the issues that are making women not want to bring the babies into the world. Accept some of the responsibility you have for the children you bring into the world...it doesn't stop with the portion of the paycheck that you decide your family deserves!

oh, and the reign of the fish (Pisces) is fading, I'm am sorry but your religion will be replaced when it does....it's just the natural progression of time, set in the beginning destined to take it's course. man will evolve and grow into something new. hopefully better...weather it is bloody or not, well, depends just as much on how the people of the church accept the fate as it does to everyone else on the planet...





[edit on 22-1-2009 by dawnstar]

[edit on 22-1-2009 by dawnstar]

reply to post by paxnatus

...greatest gift: that of life,

The Greatest gift God even gave man was FREE WILL.

And not you or anyone else has the right to take that away.

peace

[edit on 22-1-2009 by silo13]

Originally posted by spinkyboo

Originally posted by lynn112
Our national debt is climbing to unseen levels, our people are having a hard time meeting very basic needs & yet one of his first moves as POTUS is to send our money overseas to fund ending life.....

And this is different from any other adminstration how?????

What a lovely way of forcing tax payers into supporting abortion whether they want to or not.

You are describing war here. Do you believe in war?

Since my stance on war seems important to you, I'll answer.

My opinion has changed some over time, I do think that Iraq and it's people needed help. They lived under an oppresive government who slaughtered it's own people.

Do I think we should still be there? Absolutely no. I think the plan to have the Iraq people take over took to long and our troops should of been home by now.

Do I think the debt incurred by the war is a huge problem, yes and no? Yes, the debt incurred by the war is to much IMO, but in the end of it all, the people of Iraq will finally be able to live without worry that their own government will kill them. The world also gains one more country in the Middle East that is not embroiled in constant battle. Most importantly, the people of Iraq will, for the first time in decades, be able to decide their own furtures/fate.

Back on topic, right now, regardless of stance on this issue, the fact of the matter is in the CURRENT economy we need to keep this money home. Once our economy is doing better, then let's talk about sending money over-sea's to help, until then, we should be helping our own.

Originally posted by paxnatus

Originally posted by asmeone2
Some links to support my position:

www.womensenews.org...
media.www.bgnews.com...

I do appreciate the links. Here is the difference though, Clinton just like Obama
wants to take life, while Bush wanted to preserve it.


A baby take it or leave it! No big deal! Thank you, Barry!

BWHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHA!!!

Thank you for the laugh. I guess it's cool to kill adults, babies and children than to abort a baby? Fvck off.

Originally posted by silo13
reply to post by paxnatus

 

...greatest gift: that of life,

The Greatest gift God even gave man was FREE WILL.

And not you or anyone else has the right to take that away.

peace

[edit on 22-1-2009 by silo13]

Yes, God did give man free will. Ultimately, the choice IS our ours. He will not interfere and choose for you. However, as humans we sometimes make wrong choices and there are consequences not imposed by me so I don't want to come off as self righteous, but imposed sometimes by man and sometimes by God.

First and foremost, God gave you life. he breathed life into you when he created you. Along with life he gave you free will. Free will would not matter if you had never been created. THIS IS MY OPINION, please understand everyone here is entitled to their opinion. You have every right to feel as passionate about yours as I do about my mine.

I'm not judging anyone based on their decision. I am just disagreeing with the principle of abortion.