Josef Stalin

On week-end i will download somewhere the documentary: "Trotsky. The Secrets of World revolution" with english subtitles and post here the link,
Would be interesting to duscuss.
Actually a lot of facts they reveal there were new to me as well

reply to post by Russi


Thank you!
That would be interesting!

reply to post by Russi

The russian orthodox church functioned though and the stories about blackwood creaks are just stories not grounded on reality. thouse who wanted to baptize kids could do it the usual way.

The reason that the Russian Orthodox Church was allowed to function was simple. The KBG had firm control of the Orthodox church. Records indicate that a large percentage of the Orthodox "priests", were in reality, KGB agents. In fact, Patriarch Alexy II was a KGB agent.
www.orthodox.net...

RUSSIAN PATRIARCH WAS KGB AGENT, FILES SAY Patriarch Alexiy II received KGB "Certificate of Honour" by Seamus Martin The Irish Times, 23 September 2000

RUSSIA: The head of the Russian Orthodox Church, Patriarch Alexiy II of Moscow and All Russia, was a long-serving KGB agent and even received the agency's "Certificate of Honor", according to archive documents left behind by the Soviet spy agency in Estonia.

The papers detail the activities of Patriarch Alexiy, who was code-named "Agent Drozdov" (the thrush), in actions against orthodox clergy and believers.

Patriarch Alexiy has been a strong supporter of President Putin, himself a former KGB agent, and has issued public statements defending Mr Putin's conduct of the war in Chechnya and his stance on the sinking of the nuclear submarine Kursk. He has consistently opposed all proposed visits to Russia by Pope John Paul II.

Under his patriarchate the church has received special privileges, including the right to import alcohol and tobacco at reduced rates of duty for sale in the Russian Federation.

There have been allegations against the Patriarch for some time but they have been consistently denied by the church. The most recent denial was made on Wednesday by a church spokesman, Father Vsevolod Chaplin, who said: "There are no data indicating that Patriarch Aleksiy II was an associate of the special services, and no classified documents bear his signature."

But the Keston Institute, an Anglican religious rights organisation, has informed The Irish Times that it has "reviewed all the available documentary evidence from the various archives of the KGB" and has concluded that the allegations are based on fact.

Representatives of the Keston Institute have had access to documents in Tallinn which reveal that the Patriarch was recruited by the Estonian KGB on February 28th, 1958. Although he is referred to only as "Drozdov" the documents make it clear that they refer to the then Father Alexiy Ridiger as the personal details given match those of no other priest of the Estonian diocese.

The document in the Estonian State Archive (record group 131, file 393, pages 125-126) signed by the chairman of the Estonian KGB, Col I.P.Karpov, and the head of the Fourth Department "Belyayev" notes that Drozdov "positively recommended himself" to the KGB.

It adds: "During secret rendezvous he was punctilious, energetic and convivial. He is well-oriented in theoretical questions of theology and the international situation. He has a willing attitude to the fulfillment of our tasks and has already provided materials deserving attention which are forming the basis for documentation of the criminal activity of a member of the leadership of the Johvi Orthodox church . . .

"In addition, `Drozdov' also provided valuable material for the case under way against the priest Povedsky. At present he is working on improving his knowledge of German. After consolidating the agent's experience in practical work with the organs of state security in the cultivation of agents, we intend also to use him in our interests by sending him to capitalist states as a member of church delegations."

KGB papers in the Moscow archive state that Drozdov was sent to England in 1969 as part of a church delegation, that he and another agent were involved in "educational work" with monks in Pskov in western Russian in March 1983 and that he was sent on a mission to Portugal in 1985.

According to Keston, a file in the archive dated February 1988 states: "An order of the USSR KGB chairman was prepared to award Agent Drozdov the Certificate of Honor."

Here's my two cents, hopefully I'll not offend anyone.
To the poster who said that WW2 could not have been started by Hitler, true...with an explanation.
Despite essentially being the same philosophy (read Jim Marrs 'The rise of the Fourth Reich'), Fascism and Bolshevism were opposed to each other. If you read Mein Kampf (not reccomended, unless you can stand brilliant madness), you'll understand that Hitlers goal was not so much world domination, but the destruction of the Soviet Union. Stalin, not a stupid man, understood this, and the 1939 pact signed between Germany and the USSR was a means to keep watch over the Germans and to establish a buffer zone in Poland between Germany and the USSR in the event of a war, which Stalin knew was coming. Hitler had no idea that the British and the French would wage war against him, as he assumed, blindly actually, that they would support him in a war against the great enemy of the west, Soviet Russia.
The campaigns in Denmark, Norway were designed to outflank the western alliance and the war of 1940 in France and the Low Countries itself was a preemptive strike, a strike that Germany never, initially at any rate, intended.
If you read the two volume epic on the Soviet German war by John Ericson (The road to Stalingrad, The road to Berlin), you'll see that Stalin and the STAVKA toyed with the idea of launching an assualt against Hitlers Germany before they could strike. THe massive wargames in Beloruss and Ukraine in early 41 and the subsequent massive deployments tot he border were the outcome of the nebulous ideas of a war (designed to be waged in 42 or 43) against Nazi Germany. In a sense, and I know this flies against most history books, Hitlers invasion of the USSR with Operation Barbarossa was a war of a preemptive strike.
Now, as far as Stalin himself goes, as far as the historical record goes, he was a tyrant who slaughtered just as many as his own people as Hitler did. But remember, the Western Allies did not win WW2, the Soviets did. Only 1/3rd max of the German military was ever arrayed against the allies, the majority always faced the Soviets, and 80% of all German losses were against the Red Army, not the British or Americans.

The documentary promised is here:
Trotsky: secrets of world revolution. avi
with en.subtitles (not perfect, but detailed, checked)

www.mininova.org...

the file is 620 mb, so uploaded via torrent. no other way it seems

reply to post by Russi


Hey, I don't have Bittorrent or anything to download this type of file and my computer doesn't recognize it. My e-mail is down, so I can't sign up in various host-sites.
What can I do to see it?

O.K., I'm using Vuze to download it. Hopefully it doesn't contain viruses!
It's taking a long time to download. EDT is around 12 hours?

well, i guess about 6 hours
more than 200 downloads over night, but as i see only 11 seeders now and plenty of leechers...
so maybe even quicker
no viruses - checked.
subtitles though cover nearly all th sreen in some frames

[edit on 26-1-2009 by Russi]

[edit on 26-1-2009 by Russi]

reply to post by Russi


Well, it's still downloading, but my concern with viruses was about Vuze, itself.
I used hijackthis and it seems it had something called Azuearia, or something. I'll try to watch the documentary and THEN do a scan/removal. Thnx!

[edit on 26-1-2009 by Clearskies]

I'm watching it, now.
Very Good!
A LOT of info us in the US don't have access to!




edit to add:
Thank you, Russi for the English version!

[edit on 26-1-2009 by Clearskies]

I began watching some more of it, when I wasn't cleaning or cooking, etc...
Is there a way I can download it into my personal files or realplayer?

Why not?
Just save it in your files.
you wont be able to buy it anywhere in anyway. in russia they showed it once on tv and that was it. never shown again anywhere. this copy is that very one, some guy managed to record it and uploaded in internet.
if you watch it you will understand why... the real facts there produce depressing impression... (the Russians were taught that they made revolution and all their leaders were Russians...in reality the people were just used as cattle so that the emigrants of certain nationality and financed by the known and still existing banking houses could plunder their own country and murder 20 million in the process) ... but it opens the picture on what followed next, especially on the actions of Stalin and why he closed the borders and who were the people in nkvd and ogpu...who still had to pay debts to their hosts.



as a follow-up to the documentary: here is the digram that shows gold production and reserve from 1900 (yellow - Russia, red - other countries resrves in 1995)
russtat.h1.ru...
all the gold of 1915 were sent abroad as the documentary shows
1953 - the year of Stalin's murder. the highest figure... he managed to save it, produce and keep it in the country and left to the next leaders who wasted it away...
as you see the next figures...

if one studies the economic and demographic results of these 29 years Stalin was leader, one will feel dizzy...
show me at least one leader who will raise such a large wild country from ruins, make 90% of ignorant and illilterate peasants educated, scientists, engineers etc., and after death will lie in his coffin in worn-out shoes and will leave only one bankbook with 23 rubles on it...
when his daughter who had everything in the USSR ran to the USA, she married and her husband, as she told afterwards, married her only because he thought that her father had left her millions in foreign bank accounts. when he realized that there were no millions, he divorced her...
she is living now in a geriatric home in the usa...





[edit on 27-1-2009 by Russi]

reply to post by Russi


WOW!
I just finished watching it! GREAT!
Those men, so many of them, (Trotsky, et al) were real animals!
Poor Russia!
Who was the man who took over after Stalin?
Trotsky is BARELY mentioned in the US, except by communists, University people with fond devotion!
SICKENING!
You should start your own thread!
Inform Americans, The British, Australians, Germans, Everyone! Thank you!


edit to add:
Are you for or against communism?



[edit on 27-1-2009 by Clearskies]

This information sure puts perspective on Hitler's Germany and the Russian pogroms!
I used to send money for Russian Jews to go to Israel to escape pogroms.
Israel is not much better for them.

khrushchev took over after Stalin.
during the great purge, he was famous of creating a kind of competition between the regions of the Soviet Union: who submits more "enemies of people" to be shot. the procedure was simple: they called upon people to write information against their neighbors and without much checking just included such people in the lists of "found enemies"and sent to the Kremlin (Stalin) to be approved for extreme penalty - the more the better. his letters to stalin are also opened now. in one of them he writes: how is it? we (ukraine) have submitted 12 000 names and you approved only 2000 to be shot, when in other regions you approved a higher number...

\Trotsky is BARELY mentioned in the US, except by communists, University people with fond devotion!
SICKENING! \

i know it. especially people from Berkeley - the jewish elite. i knew little at that time of history and was always amazed at their heating discussions of trotsky. also marx ideas, communists etc.,
i used to work in the us for two years just after the university -joint science research projects - medicine.

\Are you for or against communism? \
im not into communism or any other ideology. the study of practical results is of more interest/
in anyway, "redistribution of wealth" goes one way
the results of the stalin rule amaze me, especilly the unique system he created. the ideology was replaced by a set of moral rules (abolished after his death, its the so called Moral code), and it worked...it seems he took all this marxism ideas and did everything the other way...
the problem is that most of his works are still classified...especilly his critic of marxism.
also his library of 5000 books with his notes on the pages that was confiscated after his death and stored in special archives is still classified.

Jewish pogroms in the USSR times? which years?
there were no any pogroms after the WWII

Originally posted by Russi
khrushchev took over after Stalin.
during the great purge, he was famous of creating a kind of competition between the regions of the Soviet Union: who submits more "enemies of people" to be shot. the procedure was simple: they called upon people to write information against their neighbors and without much checking just included such people in the lists of "found enemies"and sent to the Kremlin (Stalin) to be approved for extreme penalty - the more the better. his letters to stalin are also opened now. in one of them he writes: how is it? we (ukraine) have submitted 12 000 names and you approved only 2000 to be shot, when in other regions you approved a higher number...

Sickening.

\Trotsky is BARELY mentioned in the US, except by communists, University people with fond devotion!
SICKENING! \

i know it. especially people from Berkeley - the jewish elite. i knew little at that time of history and was always amazed at their heating discussions of trotsky. also marx ideas, communists etc.,
i used to work in the us for two years just after the university -joint science research projects - medicine.

I don't understand the people who idolize Trotsky, Lenin or Marx..

in anyway, "redistribution of wealth" goes one way

Yep, mainly into the pockets of the 'distributors'!

the problem is that most of his works are still classified...especilly his critic of marxism.
also his library of 5000 books with his notes on the pages that was confiscated after his death and stored in special archives is still classified.

That's a shame.

Jewish pogroms in the USSR times? which years?
there were no any pogroms after the WWII

This was in 2000-2006.
It was the ministry of Christians and Jews, or something, also World Jewish Congress, but they never said 'pogroms'.
They had videos of swastikas and broken windows, people with cuts and bruises.

\This was in 2000-2006.
It was the ministry of Christians and Jews, or something, also World Jewish Congress, but they never said 'pogroms'.
They had videos of swastikas and broken windows, people with cuts and bruises\

it would be enough to say that it was a program of bringing the russian jews to israel to improve the demographic situation there... it was succefull if even you donated money... but the russian jews preferred to avoid settling in israel and went instead to the usa or germany ... and many stayed here since have a good life here)) why changing a respected status here for a welfare in the usa where you will be nobody even for the local jews... i saw a lot of the "clever" russian jews who answered the call of israel and emigrated to the usa: former directors of plants, respected doctors became nothing there, living on welfare and telling stories of who they used to be...
there were and there are groups of young fascits of course who once in two years throw smth at a synagogue without hitting anybody...
skinheads are of more trouble since they do kill and beat the africans.
i guess such groups exist in every country.


[edit on 27-1-2009 by Russi]

reply to post by Russi

Oh, that organization of Christians and Jews DID call it pogroms.
That's where I learned the term from!
Have you thought about starting a thread on this, yet?

ed\In a sense, and I know this flies against most history books, Hitlers invasion of the USSR with Operation Barbarossa was a war of a preemptive strike\

Why does it fly against most history books? you mean books in english, right?
well, its in all soviet-russian textbooks for schollchildren and its true. The original Barbarossa plan (scans) is made available for the public by the germans - gogle in internet and you will get it.
So, the books you mention are not history but alternative history books...

\If you read the two volume epic on the Soviet German war by John Ericson (The road to Stalingrad, The road to Berlin), you'll see that Stalin and the STAVKA toyed with the idea of launching an assualt against Hitlers Germany before they could strike.\

Well, the problem is this wild idea contradicts the the real documents and well-known facts - its a pity you dont know Russian or you could read documents and see that John Ericson gives a false idea to the public. What sources of his assertions, I wonder...? certainly not the existing facts. if he is honest, he would have stated that there is no any documents supporting his idea of the USSR preparing any strikes ...))
For example, this site www.soldat.ru... contains electronic versions of the documents of 1941, directives, plans of the general commandment etc on defeating the AGGRESSION.
John Ericson hasn't evidenlty seen any documents concerning the "massive wargames" in the spring of 1941, because there were none. he must also have failed to see the difference between regular military trainings and total mobilization! the mobilization has been made AFTER the first strike of the germans which fact now is used to blame Stalin by some "clever heads" who always know-better. But who also faild to understand the fact that the USSR managed to make a permanent mobilation on the basis of evacuated industries! and this only crashed the german strategy of Blitzkrieg, that is the defeat of the army BEFORE the other side can make mobilization or form new army...
All the facts say that Stalin tried to avoid war and he had good chances if Hitler was a sane person, and no first strikes were planned from the Kremlin.
All the documents and military directive say about two things:
1. the army had to be ready to strike back in RESPONSE to the concentration of the Germans;
2. to strike the German troops, concentrated along the borders of the USSR, no invasion in Germany have ever been stipulated/

Also please consider these:
1.the Hitler Germany was created with the assistance of England and the USA. Explore this, you are sure to find real evidence.
2. Hitler started to prepare the attack on the USSR not because of "the threat from the east", but to scare England and deprive it of "the last continental hope". To get Egland without defeating the USSR was impossible.

\Fascism and Bolshevism were opposed to each other. If you read Mein Kampf (not reccomended, unless you can stand brilliant madness), you'll understand that Hitlers goal was not so much world domination, but the destruction of the Soviet Union\

I agree, but please consider also that the defeat of the Soviet Union gave the winner far more than virtual ideas of eliminating communism made for the public... the leaders think in a different way than the ordinary people like you and me...
Besides, Hitler knew well-enough the route Stalin took on coming to power...










[edit on 28-1-2009 by Russi]

\Now, as far as Stalin himself goes, as far as the historical record goes, he was a tyrant who slaughtered just as many as his own people as Hitler did. \
I would refer you to my post on page 1 of this thread, reg. the made-up figures of the great purge.
I wouldnt even compare Hitler and Stalin - it opposes sane logic.

\But remember, the Western Allies did not win WW2, the Soviets did. Only 1/3rd max of the German military was ever arrayed against the allies, the majority always faced the Soviets, and 80% of all German losses were against the Red Army, not the British or Americans. \

agree.