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Israel 'admits' using white phosphorus munitions

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posted on Jan, 23 2009 @ 03:15 PM
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Originally posted by budski
reply to post by BlueRaja
 


religion, or more specifically, the jewish religion was the whole basis for the original zionist movement and the creation of the state of Israel.

frankly, I'm surprised you don't know this.

Read the Balfour Declaratiion, and the role of the Rothschild's in how it came about.

Quote from A. Burg - Ex World Zionist Leader:
"All is compared to the Shoah, dwarfed by the Shoah and therefore all is allowed – be it fences , sieges ... curfews, food and water deprivation or unexplained killings. All is permitted because we have been through the Shoah and you will not tell us how to behave."

Shoah = Holocaust, this is the zionists or extremists excuse for evrything that Israel does.



[edit on 23/1/2009 by budski]


Again- this is about 1967, not 1948.




posted on Jan, 23 2009 @ 03:21 PM
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Originally posted by BlueRaja

Originally posted by breakingdradles

Originally posted by BlueRaja
reply to post by breakingdradles
 


How does religious beliefs have anything to do with Israel defending itself in '67, and ending up with additional territories when the Arab forces lost?


Read the first sentence.

Respond to what I asked, not what you want to answer.


That's an entirely different discussion. The discussion was the '67 war, not whether Israel has any right to exist in the first place.


I'm sorry I brought up the 1967 war.

My point was the UN still sees the settlements, which were made directly from the 1967 war, are still illegal in the UN's eyes.

There are plenty of wars in which the victor gave back the land to the people it was taken from, ie WWI, WWII ect ect.

It would be like the United States building settlements in Japan after WWII. The Japanese used suicide bombers and the like. Why doesn't America currently have the majority of Japan under American rule, with American only settlements?

Japan was the enemy who would take his own life to take one of ours, why didn't America set up permanent American only settlements?

BECAUSE IT'S AGAINST INTERNATIONAL LAW AND IF YOU DID TRY TO, THE PEOPLE WHO'S LAND YOU'VE TAKEN WOULD NEVER GIVE UP.


Israel placed perminent settlements outside it's recognized boarders and funnel one race/regligion into these settlements.

This is genocide by definition, getting rid of one people and populating it with another.

This is why it is still illegal under international law.

Now that I have discussed with you my side of the 1967 war, please tell me your side of forcing beliefs upon people who do not believe them


[edit on 23-1-2009 by breakingdradles]



posted on Jan, 23 2009 @ 03:33 PM
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reply to post by BlueRaja
 

An understanding of the history and the moral philosophy of the israeli leadership is crucial to the argument at hand, and why the israeli leaders are so cavalier in their attitude towards others lives.

this is also NOT about 1948 - if you knew anything, you'd know that the MODERN zionist movement started around 1897, although some literature says it predates this to about 1860.

however, if you prefer ignorance, don't bother - it's no skin off my nose.

I just thought you might remember the site motto.


[edit on 23/1/2009 by budski]



posted on Jan, 23 2009 @ 03:37 PM
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Originally posted by budski
reply to post by BlueRaja
 

An understanding of the history and the moral philosophy of the israeli leadership is crucial to the argument at hand, and why the israeli leaders are so cavalier in their attitude towards others lives.

however, if you prefer ignorance, then don't bother.


Vs. say how the Arabs view the Jews, and sided with the Nazis?



posted on Jan, 23 2009 @ 03:40 PM
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reply to post by BlueRaja
 


And just how DID the "arabs" (cute generic term seeing as there are many different ethnicities in the area) side with the nazi's?

Please explain.

Then I'll prove you wrong again.

Oh, and by the way - are you going to answer the other posters questions?
Or just ignore them again because you don't like them.



[edit on 23/1/2009 by budski]



posted on Jan, 23 2009 @ 03:43 PM
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reply to post by breakingdradles
 


www.answers.com...

n.
The systematic and planned extermination of an entire national, racial, political, or ethnic group.


I fail to see how Israel has even remotely been engaged in this. Apartheid would be a more accurate analogy.



posted on Jan, 23 2009 @ 03:51 PM
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reply to post by BlueRaja
 


sectarianism would be an even better description, as both muslims and jews worship the same god.

they differ only in their beliefs about certain prophets.

Indeed, the koran states that christians and jews should be venerated as "people of the book"

Now are you going to answer my questions?

Or just ignore them again.



[edit on 23/1/2009 by budski]



posted on Jan, 23 2009 @ 03:54 PM
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reply to post by budski
 


Hey, bud! I don't know how in Hades you can make one argument to apply to another.

Red is bright, so my car is faster?

There was no Israel until 1948. Grow up! How far do you want to turn the pages of history back? Go far enough, and it was all Jewish land, the only remaining cultural distinct group from ancient times. Of course, their land was taken from them. They were slaughtered. They were beaten. They lost their land.

Now, they've taken it back. **SNIP** happens, feet stink, food spoils, old men fart and clouds rain.

We aren't talking about a Zionist movement. We're talking about a country that is defending itself, and counterattacked when attacked.

**SNIP**

Israel is a country, had coalition forces aligned with the specific missions to wipe it off the map in 1948, 1956, 1967, and 1973, and that attitude to wipe Israel out continues unabated to this day.

Unfortunately for the attackers, each time they got their asses whipped, they lost land. Life's a bitch!

Israel used White Phosphorous. White Phosphorous is legal.

Even when it upsets the locals.

Who weren't very upset with the rocket attacks against Israel.

Hamas let the cease fire expire.

Hamas rocketed Israeli territory for a week, in spite of Israeli warnings to stop.

So what's to bitch about?

Your side losing?



[edit on 23-1-2009 by Crakeur]



posted on Jan, 23 2009 @ 04:00 PM
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reply to post by dooper
 


No, there was no Israel, but there was a zionist movement, and the balfour declaration meant that a jewish state would come into being sooner rather than later.

I thought you knew history?

Obviously not.

And please stop with the insults.



posted on Jan, 23 2009 @ 04:08 PM
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Originally posted by budski
reply to post by BlueRaja
 


And just how DID the "arabs" (cute generic term seeing as there are many different ethnicities in the area) side with the nazi's?

Please explain.

Then I'll prove you wrong again.

[edit on 23/1/2009 by budski]


Go a. and start proving me wrong.

www.palestinefacts.org...

"The Arabs took the side of the Axis, either overtly like Iraq or indirectly by withholding support for the Allies."

"Husseini soon became an honored guest of the Nazi leadership and met on several occasions with Hitler. He personally lobbied the Führer against the plan to let Jews leave Hungary, fearing they would immigrate to Palestine. He also strongly intervened when Adolf Eichman tried to cut a deal with the British government to exchange German POWs for 5000 Jewish children who also could have fled to Palestine. The Mufti's protests with the SS were successful, as the children were sent to death camps in Poland instead. One German officer noted in his journals that the Mufti would liked to have seen the Jews "preferably all killed." On a visit to Auschwitz, he reportedly admonished the guards running the gas chambers to work more diligently. Throughout the war, he appeared regularly on German radio broadcasts to the Middle East, preaching his pro-Nazi, anti-Semitic message to the Arab masses back home.

During the Second World War in Yugoslavia, many Muslim clerics in Bosnia and Kosovo were willing accomplices in the genocide of the nation's Serbian, Jewish and Roma population. From 1941 until 1945, the Nazi-installed regime of Ante Pavelic in Croatia carried out some of the most horrific crimes of the Holocaust, killing over 800,000 Yugoslav citizens - 750,000 Serbs, 60,000 Jews and 26,000 Roma. In these crimes, they were helped by Muslim fundamentalists in Bosnia and Kosovo who were openly supported by the Palestinian Grand Mufti of Jerusalem, Haj Amin al-Husseini. Husseini openly encouraged Muslims to join Nazi units that would be later implicated in genocide and crimes against humanity - the infamous Hanjar (or Handschar) 13th Waffen SS division.

Husseini represents the prevalent pro-Nazi posture among the Arab/Muslim world before, during and even after the Holocaust. The Nazi-Arab connection existed even when Adolf Hitler first seized power in Germany in 1933. News of the Nazi takeover was welcomed by the Arab masses with great enthusiasm, as the first congratulatory telegrams Hitler received upon being appointed Chancellor came from the German Consul in Jerusalem, followed by those from several Arab capitals. Soon afterwards, parties that imitated the National Socialists were founded in many Arab lands, like the "Hisb-el-qaumi-el-suri" (PPS) or Social Nationalist Party in Syria. Its leader, Anton Sa'ada, styled himself the Führer of the Syrian nation, and Hitler became known as "Abu Ali" (In Egypt his name was "Muhammed Haidar"). The banner of the PPS displayed the swastika on a black-white background. Later, a Lebanese branch of the PPS – which still receives its orders from Damascus – was involved in the assassination of Lebanese President Pierre Gemayel."

After the war, a member of Young Egypt named Gamal Abdul Nasser was among the officers who led the July 1952 revolution in Egypt. Their first act – following in Hitler's footsteps – was to outlaw all other parties. Nasser's Egypt became a safe haven for Nazi war criminals, among them the SS General in charge of the murder of Ukrainian Jewry; he became Nasser's bodyguard and close comrade. Alois Brunner, another senior Nazi war criminal, found shelter in Damascus, where he served for many years as senior adviser to the Syrian general staff and still resides today.

Sami al-Joundi, one of the founders of the ruling Syrian Ba'ath Party, recalls: "We were racists. We admired the Nazis. We were immersed in reading Nazi literature and books... We were the first who thought of a translation of Mein Kampf. Anyone who lived in Damascus at that time was witness to the Arab inclination toward Nazism."

These leanings never completely ceased. Hitler's Mein Kampf currently ranks sixth on the best-seller list among Palestinian Arabs. Luis Al-Haj, translator of the Arabic edition, writes glowingly in the preface about how Hitler's "ideology" and his "theories of nationalism, dictatorship and race… are advancing especially within our Arabic States." When Palestinian police first greeted Arafat in the self-rule areas, they offered the infamous Nazi salute - the right arm raised straight and upward.

The PLO and notably Arafat himself do not make a secret of their source of inspiration. The Grand Mufti el-Husseini is venerated as a hero by the PLO. It should be noted, that the PLO's top figure in east Jerusalem today, Faisal Husseini, is the grandson to the Führer's Mufti. Arafat also considers the Grand Mufti a respected educator and leader, and in 1985 declared it an honor to follow in his footsteps. Little wonder. In 1951, a close relative of the Mufti named Rahman Abdul Rauf el-Qudwa el-Husseini matriculated to the University of Cairo. The student decided to conceal his true identity and enlisted as "Yasser Arafat."



www.palestinefacts.org...

"Once in Berlin, the Mufti received an enthusiastic reception by the "Islamische Zentralinstitut" and the whole Islamic community of Germany, which welcomed him as the "Führer of the Arabic world." In an introductory speech, he called the Jews the "most fierce enemies of the Muslims" and an "ever corruptive element" in the world."

"Al-Husseini represented newly emerging proponents of militant, Palestinian Arab nationalism, a previously unknown concept. Once he was in power, he began a campaign of terror and intimidation against anyone opposed to his rule and policies. He killed Jews at every opportunity, but also eliminated Arabs who did not support his campaign of violence. Husseini was not willing to negotiate or make any kind of compromise for the sake of peace."

"The Mufti was one of the initiators of the systematic extermination of European Jewry and had been a collaborator and adviser of Eichmann and Himmler in the execution of this plan. ... He was one of Eichmann's best friends and had constantly incited him to accelerate the extermination measures. I heard him say, accompanied by Eichmann, he had visited incognito the gas chamber of Auschwitz."

"From Egypt al-Husseini was among the sponsors of the 1948 war against the new State of Israel. Spurned by the Jordanian monarch, who gave the position of Grand Mufti of Jerusalem to someone else, Haj Amin al-Husseini arranged King Abdullah's assassination in 1951, while still living in exile in Egypt. King Tallal followed Abdullah as king of Jordan, and he refused to give permission to Amin al-Husseini to come into Jordanian Jerusalem. After one year, King Tallal was declared incompetent; the new King Hussein also refused to give al-Husseini permission to enter Jerusalem. King Hussein recognized that the former Grand Mufti would only stir up trouble and was a danger to peace in the region."


www.freerepublic.com...

"Whitewashing the Arab historical record has long been the practice not only of Arab spokesmen but of the Arabs' Western and Communist sympathizers. Among the most persistent efforts to this end have been the denial and belittling of Arab involvement with the Nazis and the Holocaust.

In fact, many Arab nationalist leaders - from Morocco in the west to Iraq in the east - not only sympathized with the Nazis but cooperated with German agents before and during World War 2. The most outstanding Arab Nazi collaborator, however, was the leader of the Palestinian Arabs, Haj Muhammud Amin el-Husseini, Mufti of Jerusalem.

Husseini spent most of World War 2 in the Axis domain in Europe. He conferred officially with Mussolini and Hitler. In a petition he submitted together with other Arab leaders, Husseini urged the Fuehrer in the name of the Arab nation to recognize the Arab right to solve "the Jewish Question" in the Arab countries. Later he helped the Germans recruit an SS division among the Bosnian Muslims, exerting his influence over their imams, later on inspiring them during their service.

One researcher tells us, "The Mufti worked closely with the Nazi machinery responsible for exterminating Jews." (1) "

"Husseini broadcast often to the Arab countries over Radio Berlin. Indeed he was in charge of Arabic broadcasting not only for Radio Berlin but for the Italian station at Bari. (7)

In one broadcast he urged Arabs, "Kill Jews wherever you find them for the love of God, history, and religion." (8) "

"While operating in the Nazi-fascist domain during the war, the Mufti demonstrated complete identification with the Nazi policy of mass murdering Jews as outlined above. He also knew the scope of the Holocaust in terms of numbers killed before the fact of the mass murder was generally known. This knowledge showed up in a broadcast of 1944 quoted above and no doubt came from his close ties to Himmler.

On occasion he went farther than the Germans themselves. We see this for instance, in his opposition to the German plan to exchange Jews for German prisoners of the British. Husseini energetically protested against letting any Jews escape their fate under the Nazis.

His help for the Holocaust was considerable. Besides helping to recruit Bosnian Muslims for the SS - who later went out to hunt down partisans and slaughter Serbs, Jews, and Gypsies - he also recruited Soviet Muslims to collaborate with the Nazis. (16)"



posted on Jan, 23 2009 @ 04:11 PM
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Originally posted by budski
reply to post by BlueRaja
 


Now are you going to answer my questions?

Or just ignore them again.

[edit on 23/1/2009 by budski]


Which questions are you wanting me to show you where you're wrong?

[edit on 23-1-2009 by BlueRaja]



posted on Jan, 23 2009 @ 04:18 PM
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reply to post by BlueRaja
 



And you have the nerve to attack other people's sources?

Why not tie in the catholics role, and the US role come to that, or the royal familys



There was never a concerted "arab" collaboration with the nazi's - if you knew anything you'd know that hitler viewed what you call "arabs" with complete disdain which bordered on revulsion.

Don't you know that they were marked for extermination as well?

The only reason the arabs were kicking up was because they knew about the aforementioned balfour declaration - and they knew that palestine was the target.

So some of them tried to pre-empt the takeover of palestine - and hitler did jack that he wasn't already going to do.

He viewed the "arabs" in much the same way as he viewed the russians - as sub human.

One of the reasons Britain never made any treaties with hitler was because of the balfour declaration, and the power of the rothschild family.

Geez - you're really grasping at straws.

Now answer MY questions which I have posed time and again.



posted on Jan, 23 2009 @ 04:19 PM
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Originally posted by BlueRaja
reply to post by breakingdradles
 


www.answers.com...

n.
The systematic and planned extermination of an entire national, racial, political, or ethnic group.


I fail to see how Israel has even remotely been engaged in this. Apartheid would be a more accurate analogy.


OK, if I call it Apartheid will you F^*&%G answer a question, tell me your side, instead of picking apart every answer and only debating the technicality you can win.

I mean really, why are you posting, do you just want certain opinions of yours to be heard while others you obviously believe to remain private?

What are you afraid of?



posted on Jan, 23 2009 @ 04:30 PM
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reply to post by BlueRaja
 


a small minor detail is that the jews in palestine let the hungarian jews die - they refused to help them and arrested the envoy themselves.



posted on Jan, 23 2009 @ 04:36 PM
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Originally posted by breakingdradles

Originally posted by BlueRaja
reply to post by breakingdradles
 


www.answers.com...

n.
The systematic and planned extermination of an entire national, racial, political, or ethnic group.


I fail to see how Israel has even remotely been engaged in this. Apartheid would be a more accurate analogy.


OK, if I call it Apartheid will you F^*&%G answer a question, tell me your side, instead of picking apart every answer and only debating the technicality you can win.

I mean really, why are you posting, do you just want certain opinions of yours to be heard while others you obviously believe to remain private?

What are you afraid of?


Huh? I post when I feel the BS flag must be raised. It's obvious that you and Budski share opposing views to mine, and that's fine. That doesn't mean that I won't tell you why I think you're mistaken. You all have demonstrated zero objectivity, and I'm calling you out.

Here's my side. I believe Israel has a right to exist(and that it's now a moot point to debate), and defend itself. I believe Hamas(among other organizations) is a hindrance to any chance of peace between Israel and the Palestian people. I believe that WP is lawful to use against military targets. I believe that one can attack military targets in urban areas lawfully. I believe that collateral damage is a very unfortunate part of any war, and should be minimized to the extent possible. I believe the IDF tries to minimize collateral damage, but it also has a responsibility to protect itself from unnecessary casualties. I hold Hamas(and any other similar terror organization) personally responsible for collateral damage, when they intentionally conduct operations in the midst of civilians.

Feel free to ask me about any of my other views.



posted on Jan, 23 2009 @ 04:37 PM
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reply to post by Harlequin
 


So I suppose the rest of that information is irrelevant then?



posted on Jan, 23 2009 @ 04:42 PM
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Originally posted by budski




And you have the nerve to attack other people's sources?



Feel free to debunk anything I posted, though I suspect I'll only get smart remarks, rather than concrete facts. What sources would you find acceptable?



posted on Jan, 23 2009 @ 05:18 PM
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reply to post by BlueRaja
 


See harlequins post, and also my last post - that pretty much blows the propaganda you posted right out of the water.

Of course Israel has the right to exist - what they do not have the right to do is lock people behind a wall and systematically starve them, cut off their power, their water, murder their leaders and bomb civilians indiscriminately.

Nor do they have the right to force people off their land by force in order to house more "settlers"

The palestinians have a right to exist as well, and for 60 years Israel has been denying them that right - is it any wonder they fight back any way they can?

Wouldn't you if you were in their shoes?

Don't you get that yet?

Israel is doing to the palestinians what the nazi's did to the jews - with the help of other jews, and if you had taken any notice at all of all the information posted and looked at the situation with an open mind you might realise what has happened and what continues to happen.



posted on Jan, 23 2009 @ 05:54 PM
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Originally posted by budski
reply to post by BlueRaja
 


See harlequins post, and also my last post - that pretty much blows the propaganda you posted right out of the water.

Of course Israel has the right to exist - what they do not have the right to do is lock people behind a wall and systematically starve them, cut off their power, their water, murder their leaders and bomb civilians indiscriminately.

The palestinians have a right to exist as well, and for 60 years Israel has been denying them that right - is it any wonder they fight back any way they can?

Wouldn't you if you were in their shoes?

Don't you get that yet?

Israel is doing to the palestinians what the nazi's did to the jews - with the help of other jews, and if you had taken any notice at all of all the information posted and looked at the situation with an open mind you might realise what has happened and what continues to happen.



-I've seen your post- what I haven't seen is the source where you're getting your information, seeing as how we're critiquing sources. You still didn't address what info was incorrect in those links. All of it? Is everything that puts Arabs/militant Islam in a bad light propaganda, and completely untrue? Rather than dismissing it cavalierly like that, how about pointing out what's incorrect, and cite a source.

-They built a wall after continuous suicide bombings against Israeli civilians required them to take security precautions.

-Israel has been the only party to ever be willing to compromise. The Palestinians have always wanted all or nothing solutions.

-(from Page 12)
uk.reuters.com...

"The adviser said Israel would allow the "maximum" flow of food, medicine, oil and gas to the Gaza Strip to help its 1.5 million residents recover from the offensive, which killed more than 1,300 Palestinians, but a wider range of goods, including steel and cement needed for rebuilding, would have to wait."

"Olmert's adviser said Israel's underlying goal was to deny Hamas control over border crossings that could help it cement its hold on power. "If opening the passages will strengthen Hamas, we won't do it," he said."

-The Palestinians do have a right to live, but lose moral authority when they repeatedly resort to terror attacks against civilians. They've repeatedly broken ceasefires. When they're not attacking Israel, they're not getting shot at by the IDF. All of the security measures are direct consequences of their violence against Israeli citizens.

-If I were a Palestinian, I'd be pissed off at my leadership.

-Israel is doing nothing like the Nazis did to the Jews. There's no systematic round up and extermination going on of the Palestinian people. That's an asinine assertion.

-If the Palestian people want any sympathy from me, they need to renounce violence, and come to the table to discuss peaceful solutions.



[edit on 23-1-2009 by BlueRaja]



posted on Jan, 23 2009 @ 09:57 PM
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BFD.

The only good Hams is a WP hamas.



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