Israel 'admits' using white phosphorus munitions

Originally posted by dragonridr

Originally posted by Harlequin
hese have to be posted again:







click for full size


WP was used during the day , so that discounts the `illumination` arguement

was airburst for maximum field of effect and was dropped directly onto civilians.

the damning evidence above directly shows a war crime

This isn't white phosphorous seen it several times its an air burst gone wrong the munition is set to explode a set number of seconds after designation the howitzer that fired this miscalculated the trajectory angle and it went off way too low. if used correctly it would have shaken the ground like an earthquake. when they hit the ground the effect is lost and innocent people get hurt. And before you start i am not saying what Israel is doing is right but i am tired of people making things up to try to prove there view is correct. Theres 2 sides to every story.

Just goes to show that once your side can no longer be defended, you start to make up your own facts to defend it.

Not WP??

israel admits it #%$!*!!!!!

Your right, WP is not supposed to be used as a "napalm" like weapon, but when you explode the shell 150ft above the ground, then you are using it as a napalm-like weapon.

Please think your next post through and post links to sources other then your own mind, help us help you deny ignorance.

[edit on 23-1-2009 by breakingdradles]

reply to post by BlueRaja


OK, so we have the UN, various humanitarian agencies and news reporters the world over saying this WP is being used on civilians - all of whihch has been posted in this thread.

Show some evidence to prove it ISN'T.

In other words, put up or shut up.

reply to post by budski


Bud, you really, are . . . emotional. You haven't proved anything to me. Your idea of proof is opinion. I like absolute proof.

WP is legal, used for many purposes, it happens there were civilians in the area, but so what? That doesn't make it illegal.

Besides, Hamas dresses in civilian clothes, so how is one to really tell the difference? That alone could provide "reasonable doubt."

Israel has money, and so they get away with this? Is that your logic? Many Americans send Israelis money each year, and the US sends funding to Israel.

Kind of blows your argument, doesn't it?

In fact, all your arguments are bloated opinion, and thus, blow.

reply to post by Exuberant1

ex, how, I ask you can minor tendrils of burning WP somehow, "GAS" someone on the ground?

You tell me how this works.

Because what you propose violated all known experience, and in fact, would violate all known physics pertaining to gases.

As I explained earlier, I used it to clear bunkers, but it wasn't the fumes and gases from WP that killed. It was a combination of flash, lighting them up, and asphyxiation.

Not one died for inhaling fumes.

Try again.

reply to post by dooper


You've been completely proved wrong time and again in this thread Rambo.

I'm surprised you have the nerve to carry on....

Actually, scrub that.

It would require rational thought to make an admission of being wrong.

I'm far from emtional - I'm coldly rational, and looking at facts, which have disproved every lame argument you have made.

In fact, when I have some spare time I shall list list them all in one post for the world to see.

You've comepletely blown any credibility you might have had - but I guess you'll just keep repeating the same tripe.

So the special forces require above average intelligence then do they?

Apparently not

Or you weren't in them.

Take your pic.

reply to post by hackbart

hack, I'll never argue that the Israelis have never done anything wrong, but if one wishes to talk about the rules, consider this:

Two opposing sides, about to fight. There are agreements that everyone accepts as rules of behavior in the fighting. There is an agreement. An understanding.

This agreement is much like a contract. Once one side breaks the rules of behavior, then there cannot possibly be an agreement, because that is now gone.

So it's open season. No rules. You start it by engaging in barbaric behavior, no problem. Now I'm free to do whatever I want. And if it's barbarism you prefer, I'll show you some real barbarism.

Now for God's sake, once you start coming up on the short end of the stick, don't whine to me about the damned rules you previously tossed. Don't whine. Don't cry to others.

I don't want to hear it.

Originally posted by budski
reply to post by BlueRaja

 

OK, so we have the UN, various humanitarian agencies and news reporters the world over saying this WP is being used on civilians - all of whihch has been posted in this thread.

Show some evidence to prove it ISN'T.

In other words, put up or shut up.

I agree, there is a plethora of picture EVIDENCE showing civilians runing away from WP "rain", not only showing it WAS used in a HIGHLY populated civilian area, but also it was used when civilians AND international reporters were right there on the ground. Close enough to make them run for their lives, while others DO have WP burns as conformed by international doctors at the hospitals.

Where is picture evidence of WP being used correctly, at ground level, with IDF troops using it as a smoke screen?

And even if there are pictures showing the correct use, which I think would be few and far between, it still does not excuse the massive evidence proving use against international law.

As much as israel loves to believe, they will soon find out they are not above international law, no one is

Originally posted by dooper
reply to post by hackbart

 

hack, I'll never argue that the Israelis have never done anything wrong, but if one wishes to talk about the rules, consider this:

Two opposing sides, about to fight. There are agreements that everyone accepts as rules of behavior in the fighting. There is an agreement. An understanding.

This agreement is much like a contract. Once one side breaks the rules of behavior, then there cannot possibly be an agreement, because that is now gone.

So it's open season. No rules. You start it by engaging in barbaric behavior, no problem. Now I'm free to do whatever I want. And if it's barbarism you prefer, I'll show you some real barbarism.

Now for God's sake, once you start coming up on the short end of the stick, don't whine to me about the damned rules you previously tossed. Don't whine. Don't cry to others.

I don't want to hear it.

Really, two wrongs make a right?

They sent rockets into israel, which was wrong, israel retaliates and also kills civilians, scores more, which is wrong. But since the Arabs did it first, israel is allowed to lower itself to a terrorists level, AND raise the bar?

Well in 1967 israel stole thier land, when the land they were GIVEN by Arabs in 1948 was no longer enough. That was wrong, Hamas fights and asks for the boarders to be returned to 1967, when israel says no, they get rocketed. But since israel did it first, is Hamas allowed to commit a wrong doing as well?

Life is a two way street, israelis are just as much heathenistic terrorists as the ones they fight.

[edit on 23-1-2009 by breakingdradles]

reply to post by budski


You haven't proven diddly squat, Twinkletoes. A couple of photos of folks dodging little fireballs, some of which have rebounded after hitting structure, and you call this proof of civilians being targeted by WP?

Do these guys look like they've been gassed?

Looks like their feet are doing well, and they can clearly see which direction they want to run, therefore, unlikely to have caused neural damage.

No ground bursts, no napalm.

Your logic is a bit retarded to assume so very much.

Do you not think that Israel has napalm? Do you know that napalm is much, much more effective against ground targets?

Don't you think Israel knows the same thing?

Whey do the Israelis not use WP ground bursts, or at least get it down amongst the population for maximum effect if they're targeting civilians?

Why would they use fuses to burst at such a high altitude, where most of it has burned out by the time it hits the ground?

Take your ballet shoes off and dance through those questions, Twinkletoes.

You like to use pet names.

We can do that.

reply to post by breakingdradles


Do not try that stealing land crap back in 1967.

You know not what you're talking about.

Do some homework, son. It helps you keep from making completely false statements.

reply to post by dooper


No, what I call it is proof that the israeli's used WP, when they had previiously said that they didn't.

That is what this thread is about Rambo, and that's what you can't seem to understand.


Did those fights with apollo creed knock too many brain cells loose?

Originally posted by dooper
reply to post by budski

 

Bud, you really, are . . . emotional. You haven't proved anything to me. Your idea of proof is opinion. I like absolute proof.

WP is legal, used for many purposes, it happens there were civilians in the area, but so what? That doesn't make it illegal.

Besides, Hamas dresses in civilian clothes, so how is one to really tell the difference? That alone could provide "reasonable doubt."

Israel has money, and so they get away with this? Is that your logic? Many Americans send Israelis money each year, and the US sends funding to Israel.

Kind of blows your argument, doesn't it?

In fact, all your arguments are bloated opinion, and thus, blow.

I love that argument, Hamas is dressed in civilian clothes, so it's ok to kill civilians.

At Columbine, before anyone knew the shooters had already killed themselves, would it have been ok for the police to shoot students? They were students, like the shooters were, they were the same age and looked the same, does that make it ok to kill innocents??

A bank robber comes out of the bank with all the hostages, and he's in the middle, can the police hurl a grenade into the center of the crowd?

A serial killer has been tracked back to the apt building where he lives, do you demo the whole building?

These men would be charged with murder in the US and England.

A Hamas soldier launches a rocket and runs into a school, can israel bomb the school full of refuges to kill the one soldier who ran into it?

Well they do.

EVERYTHING you have posted here is a complete joke, there is no defence for killing innocents, especially under the guise of a religion.

The israelis are TERRORISTS and terrorizing and killing more people than the Arabs could have ever wished.

Originally posted by dooper
reply to post by breakingdradles

 

Do not try that stealing land crap back in 1967.

You know not what you're talking about.

Do some homework, son. It helps you keep from making completely false statements.

I have, but instead of reading the Jewslum Post, I go off UN resolutions. International law, not israeli propaganda.

Typical responce from someone who cannot defend their position.

Why don't you debate me on the first paragraph then, which has no sideways room for interpertation?

"They sent rockets into israel, which was wrong, israel retaliates and also kills civilians, scores more, which is wrong. But since the Arabs did it first, israel is allowed to lower itself to a terrorists level, AND raise the bar? "

Deny ignorance Dopehead, use logic, not emotion.


[edit on 23-1-2009 by breakingdradles]

reply to post by budski

The bursts so high above the ground almost are subject to opinion as to whether this really constitutes "use." Hell, it's almost all burned up it's so high up.

But the civilian targeting, the gas effect, all BS.

Gets hard to think in tights and after being on your tippy-toes, huh, Twinkletoes?

Originally posted by dooper
reply to post by budski

 

The bursts so high above the ground almost are subject to opinion as to whether this really constitutes "use." Hell, it's almost all burned up it's so high up.

But the civilian targeting, the gas effect, all BS.

Gets hard to think in tights and after being on your tippy-toes, huh, Twinkletoes?

You continue to show your complete ignorance on any facts and your 100% BLIND faith in israel.

LOOK AT THE $#^&@! PICTURES!!!!!!!!

You can clearly see it does not burn by the time it hits the ground. Infact the baseball size globs smolder and burn for a long time, hense why it's used as an incendiary device.

Do you even read your posts before you click the button, or just let your undying love for israel post for you?


[edit on 23-1-2009 by breakingdradles]

reply to post by breakingdradles


You are more confused than I thought.

You'll notice that no one went into Colombine for what seemed like hours. We all saw the impotence of the police.

Yours is an ongoing misconception. Folks wanting to apply civic virtues and behaviors to the arena of conflict and war.

Civic virtues are polar opposites of military virtues.

Police are not soldier. Soldiers are not police.

The civic hostage situation is generally one isolated incident at a time. Micro in nature.

A military conflict is generally widespread, and more macro.

The military has no need to read a combatant their rights.

The police are to use minimum force to facilitate an arrest, for trial.

The military are to use maximum force to inflict as much damage, death, and destruction as possible to end a conflict.

Big difference.

reply to post by breakingdradles




In combat people get hurt mistakes are made and people die. If Israel wanted to kill every last Palestinian it wouldn't take more than 12 hours. They have the ability luckily that is obviously not there intention.
Now i don't believe they should have gone in to Gaza that was tactically stupid. They are under the impression if they make the people in Gaza miserable and inflict enough damage to hamas that what they don't finish the people will. This strategy is misguided to say the least.
I will tell you the Israelis are attacking Hamas infrastructure arms manufacturing ,storage, communications and supplies. Any army in the world would approach it the same way. Now in an urban setting you blow up a fuel depot it tends to cause explosions in surrounding areas and innocent people will die. Id say in urban combat better then 50 percent of deaths is caused by secondary explosions.
This conflict wont end until Hamas is destroyed or they stop attacking Israel. I don't believe either of these 2 scenarios is plausible so I see a peace for maybe a year and this all starts over again history has proved it again and again

Originally posted by dooper
reply to post by breakingdradles

 

You are more confused than I thought.

You'll notice that no one went into Colombine for what seemed like hours. We all saw the impotence of the police.

Yours is an ongoing misconception. Folks wanting to apply civic virtues and behaviors to the arena of conflict and war.

Civic virtues are polar opposites of military virtues.

Police are not soldier. Soldiers are not police.

The civic hostage situation is generally one isolated incident at a time. Micro in nature.

A military conflict is generally widespread, and more macro.

The military has no need to read a combatant their rights.

The police are to use minimum force to facilitate an arrest, for trial.

The military are to use maximum force to inflict as much damage, death, and destruction as possible to end a conflict.

Big difference.

WOW...

I don't even know where to start.

At one time, like WW2, that was the case. Since then, we have INTERNATIONAL LAWS to prevent such civilian carnage.

Your interpertation of war is why more and more people are seeing the similiarity between the Nazis of WW2 and the israelis of today.

You must be old, in a generation on its way out.

The new generation no longer cares about Arabs, just like people stoped caring about the Japs, Commies and other boogeymen of yesterday.

It is laughable that you tell bud to stop posting with emotion, when I can almost see your heart pouring out of the screen.

People like you are why our world is still f'd up.

The old dinosaurs need to die off and let a new outlook arise.

reply to post by dragonridr


HC is also a proven carcinogen and a direct cause of liver cancer when exposed to.

www.exercisevacuum.com...


google white phosphorus bomb and all of the links show explosive formations like the one i posted , from various conflicts.


and ynet ahave also posted that the IDF have used WP , ynet and jpost being israeli sources.

Avital Leibovich the army spokeswoman said the IDF used WP in accordance with international law


^^ FROM TH OP LINKED ARTICLE

dragonridr - the IDF said themselves they used it , so why are you arguing with the IDF?

[edit on 23/1/09 by Harlequin]

reply to post by BlueRaja


www.geenstijl.nl...


that picture

click it please and look on the right of the picture the ambulence is the white van with the word `ambulence` in both english and arabic on it and the medic is the person wearing the red HV vest and green trousers ,carrying the medical bag , wearing the filter mouth mask on the right.


in fact everyone click that link - thats WP from an airburst landing and burning what ever it touches.