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Israel 'admits' using white phosphorus munitions

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posted on Jan, 22 2009 @ 07:55 PM
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reply to post by Jay-in-AR
 

The reason the Hama have no other place to fight is because previously, with the borders open, they were free to send in suicide bombers, and they were exploding all over the place!

On buses, in markets where civilian innocents were shopping, in restaurants, coffee houses, just on and on, and on.

So the fact that Hamas has no real good place to fight right now, it's just tough luck!

They bitch about the borders being closed?

Well?

Who screwed that up?




posted on Jan, 22 2009 @ 08:06 PM
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reply to post by dooper
 


Refer to the maps posted a few pages back.

In reality, no matter WHO STARTED WHAT, the fact remains that conflict occurs, Israel takes land. More conflict, more land for Israel. What does that tell you? Are you trying to say that the Arabs are so damned incompetent that they would create a situation that would inevitably harm their cause? PLEASE, some of the greatest engineering minds ever born were Arabic. Some of the greatest thinkers, period. Don't generalize them to be a group of radical idiots. You are a victim of the same thing YOU CLAIM to perpetuate (Special Forces manipulation) (which only leads me to further believe you are a bold liar)
No, nevermind, don't. I'm tired of the circular logic. This is yet another thing that has already been addressed sufficiently.

So long, see you at the next topic involving idiotic logic.



posted on Jan, 22 2009 @ 08:50 PM
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I need to issue a public apology to MikeBoyd.

Sorry dude. I was caught up in the speed and emotion of the thread between coming and going to work. I missed a few of your key posts and misunderstood your intentions.

I apologize.



posted on Jan, 22 2009 @ 08:54 PM
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Originally posted by budski
reply to post by dooper
 


So now you resort to insults - well I suppose it was inly a matter of time.

I found this piece particularly hilarious and ironic given your "moral" viewpoint:



To not kill his enemy, is to continue the suffering of innocents, and thus an immoral act of omission.


The killing of innocents by the illegal use of munitions such as WP in civilian area's is totally immoral - but apparently not if you are Israeli, or part of the Israeli puppet system of money worshippers otherwise known as the oil industry and the lobbyists in washington.





War itself is immoral.

Also, Israel may be using weapons you're not fond of in Gaza, however, last time I checked, suicide bombers from Palestine didn't exactly target Only military areas in Israel..

Am I correct on this?



posted on Jan, 22 2009 @ 08:56 PM
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I don't think the WP should EVER be used. I understand that its war and war is hell but, REALLY? Show some basic human compassion. Why WP is legal at all is beyond me. Why we have wars is beyond me; but what do I know?

Wicked stuff, sad stuff.......



posted on Jan, 22 2009 @ 09:03 PM
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reply to post by RustykShade
 


On the subject of stictly illegal weapons, just wait for the next batch.

Apparently scientists in the US are getting closer to developing a cloaking device. Which means, in my eyes, that they are already there, or REALLY damned close.

There you go, next we'll hear people arguing that it was somehow "legal" to use a cloaking device to walk up to an enemy and stab them in the face while they were eating chow.

Or to cut their junk off while they were "behind a bush" so to speak.

I mean seriously, what could the POSSIBLE use of a cloaking device be if not for deceit?

[edit on 22-1-2009 by Jay-in-AR]



posted on Jan, 22 2009 @ 09:13 PM
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reply to post by Jay-in-AR
 


I don't understand what you're saying. Do you need a copy of my military records, photographs in combat, in uniform, with my decorations (which are also listed on my DD214)?

What exactly is it you require?

There's a lot more in this world to get upset about rather than a bunch of yahoos you probably don't have much in common with.

You want to get puked out?

Look into the wholesale slaughter going on in regions of Africa. That'll make you forget all about this little skirmish.



posted on Jan, 22 2009 @ 09:22 PM
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Originally posted by dooper
reply to post by Lazyninja
 


Lazy, it is about Hamas. Of course civilians were killed. They're almost always killed in wars and conflicts.

You have a romantic concept of war. I think that if you roll back through the history books, you'll rarely find parity of size.

It's more frequently one side much larger than the other. It's extremely rare that the vastly outnumbered side picks a fight, because most everyone is smart enough to know better.

Of course, the being smart part doesn't apply to these people.

War is war, and it is not like the Westerns where two line up and see who can draw the fastest and shoot the straightest.

If you ever find yourself in a fair fight, you are unprepared, and your planning absolutely sucks.


I agree with most of what you're saying, but my point is definition. I don't have a romantic view of war, it's just that there's a different way of describing conflict in it's many forms and scales.

There are fights, skirmishes, and wars. And then you got your genocides and ethnic cleansing.

Conventionally war is what I described, when you're talking about an army killing a 99% civillian population that's not a war, because the other side isn't an army.

Calling it a war is kinda saying, well all's fair in love and war. And all that other kinda stuff which somehow permits people doing evil things. Even though there's international law about rules of engagement.

[edit on 22-1-2009 by Lazyninja]



posted on Jan, 22 2009 @ 10:09 PM
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The international community around the world knows not to use this (WP) - Incendiary . (Also know as a chemical weapon. ) Even though it’s uses for war-fare are written in the Geneva convention. The use of WP is something you should not use unless you want to mark a location or use it for a smoke screen. Also used to mark armor targets i.e. tanks on the battle field. This is the main use of WP ( Armor Targets )

WP is a wax like substance. It will stick to anything including armor. It will also burn your skin to the bone literally and still keep burring until there is no o2 to keep it burning. How this stuff is being used in a civilian populated area ( City) is beyond me.

Being a former U.S. military aviator I can tell you this stuff is nasty and we were forbidden to use it on anything other than markers and smoke screens. Like I said, the countries around the world know what is real use is for and most restrain from using it on anything else.

Why because most countries will consider WP use on troops and civilians inhumane, thus resulting in war crimes against humanity. I don’t care how anyone spins the use of WP, but the fact remains and is even unsaid by the Geneva convention. It’s use is marking a location and smoke screens. That is it, any other use is forbidden.

I believe the Geneva convention only mentions targets and equipment use. I don’t think there is no place where is even said troop use . Thus targets and equipment mean the same thing according the Geneva convention. What they mean is Targeting Equipment only. Not troops and civilians. I even asked this at few briefings and was always told markers and screens only. I don’t see how you can screen anything with tall buildings around. Why would you ? Now for marking a location. Why drop it on the buildings for a strike ,when the aircraft is already there but dropping WP instead ? why not drop some red smoke. Or better yet just mark it with the nav-geo send it via sat to the troops of its location, send a picture while you’re at it. There is no use for the WP in this case at all.



posted on Jan, 22 2009 @ 10:17 PM
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reply to post by budski
 


I never understood your burning concern with Gazans. Over the past five years, genocide in Darfur has killed 450,000 Africans. 12 million Africans have perished since 1991, and senseless murder and gangrape of women and girls still continues to this day. Thousands and thousands are displaced and starving.

Where exactly is your superior moral outrage?

Is this genocide acceptable because Israelis are not involved?

You concern yourself with the use of WP on a few Gazans who were launching rockets across the border into Israel, you tout loudly the outrage you feel, and yet your concern seems rather selective.

Pretentious at best, racial bias more likely.



posted on Jan, 22 2009 @ 11:47 PM
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reply to post by Jay-in-AR
 


Saddam was "special". Politically he was accused of anything that could be thrown at him. To the politicians it didn't matter if the criticism was hypocritical or not. Thats realpolitik, hypocrisy, disinformation and obfuscation.

In 1986 someone at Milton Bradley saw the future with "Fortress America: The United States Under Attack".






We even get the older bearded Saddam in one variant box art.


The really weird thing is at the time Saddam was still on our good side.

BTW, notice the WTC in the center of the box art and the setting of the early 21st century.

Cue Twilight Zone music.

What does any of that have to do with Israel using WP in Gaza? We'll find out soon enough I suspect.

I'm not defending the WP accusations against Saddam. People will ignore their own laws and principles to get an advantage.

Anyway my point is there are more things here than meet the eye and knowing that is half the battle.



posted on Jan, 22 2009 @ 11:50 PM
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Even IF Israel's mission was to destroy Gaza once and for all the use of white phosphorous is completely uncalled for. The U.S. did the same thing in Fallujah and again there was no need for it then either. Some one tell me what the need for this chemical warfare and genetically altering weapon is.

*Even the msm has acknowledged that Israel used white phosphorous there is no denying the fact now.

[edit on 22-1-2009 by Techsnow]



posted on Jan, 22 2009 @ 11:51 PM
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reply to post by MikeboydUS
 

mike, that's something else! I never saw that before, and with the Trade Towers . . .

Good heads up! And thanks for sharing.



posted on Jan, 23 2009 @ 12:17 AM
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Ok it is not ok to use white phosphorus but it is cool to drop a 200lb bomb.

Hmm.

The rules of engagement seem silly when you look at war from a elevated perspective.



posted on Jan, 23 2009 @ 12:20 AM
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reply to post by OS EXYCEUS
 

Thank you, OS.

You understand.

It is much more humane to vaporize and shred at ground level with High Explosive than to use WP. With fuses set to burst at 300-400 feet.


[edit on 23-1-2009 by dooper]



posted on Jan, 23 2009 @ 02:13 AM
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hese have to be posted again:







click for full size


WP was used during the day , so that discounts the `illumination` arguement

was airburst for maximum field of effect and was dropped directly onto civilians.

the damning evidence above directly shows a war crime



posted on Jan, 23 2009 @ 02:38 AM
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The International Red Cross said Tuesday that Israel has fired white phosphorus shells in its offensive in the Gaza Strip, but has no evidence to suggest it is being used improperly or illegally.
IAF strikes in Gaza last week.

IAF strikes in Gaza last week.
Photo: AP
Slideshow: Gaza op, Day 19

The comments came after a human rights organization accused the Jewish state of using the incendiary agent, which ignites when it strikes the skin and burns straight through or until it is cut off from oxygen. It can cause horrific injuries.

The International Committee of the Red Cross urged Israel to exercise "extreme caution" in using the incendiary agent, which is used to illuminate targets at night or create a smoke screen for day attacks, said Peter Herby, the head of the organization's mines-arms unit.

"In some of the strikes in Gaza it's pretty clear that phosphorus was used," Herby told The Associated Press. "But it's not very unusual to use phosphorus to create smoke or illuminate a target. We have no evidence to suggest it's being used in any other way."
RELATED

* Law professor: Hamas is a war crimes 'case study'
* Dershowitz: Israel is well within its rights

In response, the IDF said Tuesday that it "wishes to reiterate that it uses weapons in compliance with international law, while strictly observing that they be used in accordance with the type of combat and its characteristics."

Herby said that using phosphorus to illuminate a target or create smoke is legitimate under international law, and that there was no evidence the Jewish state was intentionally using phosphorus in a questionable way, such as burning down buildings or knowingly putting civilians at risk.

More
74.125.113.132...:73dEN1YtbaMJ:www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite%3Fcid%3D1231866575577%26pagename%3DJPost%252FJPArticle%252FShowFull+ idf+use+of+white+phosphorus+legal&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=1&gl=ca



posted on Jan, 23 2009 @ 03:07 AM
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reply to post by budski
 





White phosphorus is also a terror weapon.

I'm curiouse why no one still calls the zionist regime a terrorist organization? Is Gaza not an extermination camp? I'm still wondering what the world is waiting for, this is insane.



posted on Jan, 23 2009 @ 03:17 AM
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reply to post by dooper
 


This thread is about Isael and their use of WP - an attempt to derail because you've been proven wrong won't help.

I've stated many times on these boards that something should be done about Africa - but the "worlds policeman" most recently in the shape of draft dodging coward dubya shrub (who you seem to revere for some reason) couldn't be bothered because there's no OIL to exploit.

Nor would he do anything to curb israel, because he was bought and paid for by the israel lobby - we even had the ludicrous situation where olmert recently boasted that he had MADE rice change her vote by calling bush and DEMANDING he make her do it:

In an unusually public rebuke, Prime Minister Ehud Olmert of Israel said Monday that Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice had been forced to abstain from a United Nations resolution on Gaza that she helped draft, after Olmert placed a phone call to President George W. Bush.

"I said, 'Get me President Bush on the phone,' " Olmert said in a speech in the southern Israeli city of Ashkelon, according to The Associated Press. "They said he was in the middle of giving a speech in Philadelphia. I said I didn't care: 'I need to talk to him now,' " Olmert continued. "He got off the podium and spoke to me."

source

Bush was an israeli puppet - they said jump and he said "How High?"

The reason?

Money.

If the palestinians had the same kind of money and power he would have asked them "how high?"

For sale to the highest bidder



posted on Jan, 23 2009 @ 03:28 AM
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Good news. Although the US always ensures that Israel can be above the law, it's good that attempts are being made to make them obey. I guess that those supporting the Israeli government in committing acts illegal according to international law, also support torturing.

These people are a shame for mankind, but more importantly they are a shame for democracy. When Nazi-Germany committed crimes, these people supported it wholeheartedly, when another countries commits crimes, they should be prosecuted too. If you fail to agree, tell me why.

Liberté, égalité, fraternité: for everyone, not just for the West.



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