'Israeli nukes threaten world'

Originally posted by Grock

Isael has nukes? Considering their actions of late, this should be of great concern to us all. I would not doubt their willingness to use them at the drop of a hat if they get angry enough at someone.

And this would be based upon what precedent? Do you suppose Israel getting hit with a WMD would make them angry enough to retaliate, or do you think they'd nuke another country unprovoked?

reply to post by BlueRaja


I dont think they would nuke someone unprovoked, simply because they have been provoked plenty and they havent used them. However, if Iran gets nukes (which i believe they already have) then Israel would definately utilize what they have.

Originally posted by Grock
reply to post by BlueRaja

 

I dont think they would nuke someone unprovoked, simply because they have been provoked plenty and they havent used them. However, if Iran gets nukes (which i believe they already have) then Israel would definately utilize what they have.

I think Israel has shown great restraint, and are the least of the world's worries in the Middle East. Iran with nukes on the otherhand would be something to worry about. I don't see Israel using nukes unless they got hit with a WMD. Unlike militant Islamists, Israel has no suicidal urges, but it does have a strong sense of self preservation.

Originally posted by donhuangenaro

Originally posted by slicobacon
A nuclear Iran would be very scary!

of course it would be scary

for you...

easily intimidated people like you would be scared, but we don't see iranians butchering their minorities (jews included)... nor we have seen iranians waging war on their neighbors...

..and Easily influenced people by Iranian state sponsored PRESS TV are any less scary?

Was that a sick joke about Iran looking after it's minorities??! What about Bahai'is? Gays? Women? Don't you regard stoning and hanging as "butchering"? Please do some research on contemporary Iran before making wild and inchorent claims that couldnt be further from the truth.

Also, you may be unaware that only after 1 year of hlding government the current regime was at war with Iraq for 8 years in one of the most deadly wars of all time. Not to mention their interfering in Iraq and Lebanon that are costing lives by the day. Not exactly the friendly neighbour you make them out to be..



[edit on 23-1-2009 by theblunttruth]

Im sure that the entire middle east is not comfortable with Israel having nukes. The neighbors of the USA dont feel that way about them. So whats the difference? The difference is that the USA can be trusted with them to not go off half cocked, while Israel cant be.

I'm sure this is relevant to the topic somehow

The United States has signed a nuclear cooperation deal with the United Arab Emirates (UAE), pledging to help it develop nuclear power

here

I like this thread.. I jus dont believe that Israel has Nuke... If it has there could be distructions nowadays... glad there arent... eeeyyaahhhh

Originally posted by thinkerbel
I like this thread.. I jus dont believe that Israel has Nuke... If it has there could be distructions nowadays... glad there arent... eeeyyaahhhh

You can choose to live in your comfortable bubble but unfortunately Israel has nukes.

Today, Israel is the world's sixth most powerful nuclear state, with a stockpile of more than 100 nuclear weapons and with the components and ability to build atomic, neutron and hydrogen bombs.

Wisconsin Project

There is no evidence that Israel has ever carried out a nuclear test, although many observers speculated that a suspected nuclear explosion in the southern Indian Ocean in 1979 was a joint South African-Israeli test.

Global Security

Vela Incident

reply to post by fritz

1. The Arab nations occupy some 13,486,861 square kilometers.

2. Israel occupies just 20,770 square kilometers - inc occupied West Bank.


3. The GNP of all Arab nation combined is some 1,195.49 Billion US dollars.

4. The GNP of Israel is just 110.20 Billion US dollars.

5. Population of the Arab counties combined (as of 2001) equalled some
292,400,267 million persons.

6. The Israeli population (as of 2001) numbered just 5,938,093 persons.

Hardly stacks up in Israel's favour, now does it?

The Arab nations have a population of almost 800million people

Israel has about 7million including Palestinians

That means Arab nations have over 100 times more people then Israel. But only 65 times more land.

GNP: Arab Nations = 1,195.49 Billion US
GNP: Israel = 110.20 Billion US

It seems by these figures Arab Nations = 10 times more. Again with a population of over 100 times more.



"Hardly stacks up in Israel's favour, now does it?" ...Actually, it does.


I got the Population stats from here: www.mideastweb.org...

[edit on 25-1-2009 by Obliterated]

Geez and no one looked at this.
I made a thread about this aswell.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Shame.

Originally posted by Obliterated "Hardly stacks up in Israel's favour, now does it?" ...Actually, it does. I got the Population stats from here: www.mideastweb.org... [edit on 25-1-2009 by Obliterated]

In no way do the figures favour Israel.

Using a simple calculator, I divided the GNP of the combined Arab nations by the GNP of Israel. This came out at $0.010848 B, per head, per capita, per year - in the Arab's favour.

Again using the calculator, I divided the total Arab population by that of Israel and it came out at 114.1 to 1 against Israel.

So Israel is surrounded by enemies, is outnumbered 114.1 to 1 and the Arabs could buy Israel several times over, with the small change they get for their oil.

How does this favour Israel?

Back on thread. The Arab governments KNOW they cannot defeat the Israelis in a straight fight. (One only has to look at the recent defeat of Iraq to understand how technology and leadership overcame sheer weight of numbers).

That is why the Arab states still sponsor terrorism by supporting Hammas and Hezbollah either overtly through training camps or covertly as the Egyptians are doing running arms, ammunition and explosives through tunnels in to the Gaza Strip.

Whilst Israel is fighting the War on Terror on our behalf in the Middle East, their actions in and around Gaza has been scandolous. Of that there is little doubt.

But where was the world with it's condemnations when Hammas sent suicide bombers in to Israel, deliberately targetting women and children in bus lines or in the markets?

Where were the condemnations when Hammas fired rockets in to Israel, 3 hours after Israel left Gaza, breaking the cease-fire?

Enough is enough! It is stupid to even suggest that Israel will simply arm and fire her nuclear weapons at whoever without the slightest provocation.

Israel has been sorely tested and has, IMHO, shown great restraint.

I just found this interesting tidbit, thought id share it with ya:

Israeli Professor - 'We Could Destroy All European Capitals'
www.rense.com...

not sure what to make of it, but some of its pretty scary, like this:

"Our armed forces are not the thirtieth strongest in the world, but rather the second or third. We have the capability to take the world down with us. And I can assure you that that this will happen before Israel goes under."

Originally posted by slicobacon
The big difference here is Iran has made blatant threats to perform genocide on the Jewish people.

When? Lies.

Jewish people love living in Iran, some are even seated on Parliament there. Iranian Jews refused Israel CASH OFFERS to relocate to Israel. Jews in Iran have recently protested against Israeli actions. You my friend are either misinformed, or promoting an agenda.

AAC

reply to post by fritz

Whilst Israel is fighting the War on Terror on our behalf in the Middle East, their actions in and around Gaza has been scandolous. Of that there is little doubt.

But where was the world with it's condemnations when Hammas sent suicide bombers in to Israel, deliberately targetting women and children in bus lines or in the markets?

The war on terror?

They are living in the worlds biggest concentration camp. They had their homes stolen, destroyed, families killed... what do you expect them to do? Say "Thank you"?

What ever they do to Israel, is nothing in comparison to what Israel has put these people through for the last 60 years.

Here is a site which lists all Israeli and Palestinian children killed from Sept 2000 til 2008. I suggest you look through and take note of how many children were killed by IDF gun fire.
www.rememberthesechildren.org...

If Israel can kill children in cold blood then they would have no problem using nukes. They used chemical weapons on areas populated by civilians without blinking an eye. And turned Lebanon into rubble in 2006.

If these people can bomb U.N. buildings, schools, Aid trucks and civilians then they obviously lack the ethics and morals which would prevent the use of Nukes.

[edit on 27-1-2009 by Obliterated]

some food for thought:

The often asked question, when it comes to the Palestinians, is about the role of Arab countries in the Palestinian struggle for freedom. The people not familiar with the political landscape of the area often see the Middle East as two camps, Arab countries on one side and Israel on the other. The reality is totally different. Israel has seldom been alone. Beside its usual American, French, British and other staunch allies, she has had the hidden backing of several Arab countries.

... What is not mentioned much in the media is that this was done with the complete approval of the Saudi Arabia, Egypt and Jordan. After all, Egypt could have opened its border for transfer of food and fuel.

very good reading by the way.

Link

Estimates of the number of the people killed in the ten days of Black September range from three thousand to more than five thousand, although exact numbers are unknown. The Palestinian death toll in 11 days of fighting was estimated by jordan at 3,400, though Arafat claimed that 20,000 had been killed.[13] The Western reporters were concentrated at the Intercontinental Hotel, away from the action. Nasser's state-controlled Voice of the Arabs from Cairo reported genocide.

Black September

EDIT: forgot the link

[edit on 1.27.09 by toreishi]

Originally posted by Grock
Im sure that the entire middle east is not comfortable with Israel having nukes. The neighbors of the USA dont feel that way about them. So whats the difference? The difference is that the USA can be trusted with them to not go off half cocked, while Israel cant be.

I'm going to have to disagree. What precedent has Israel set, where it'd arbitrarily use a nuclear weapon? It's arsenal is for deterrence against a large number of folks that don't recognize its right to exist, and if you need an example of restraint, you may want to look back to say 1990-91 time frame when ballistic missiles(capable of carrying Chemical/Biological warheads) were hitting Tel Aviv. Or even further back in '81 when the Osirak facility was taken out conventionally, or last year's conventional attack on Syrian facilities. In each case of Israel's use of military force, it has been defensive in nature.

Originally posted by Obliterated They used chemical weapons on areas populated by civilians without blinking an eye.

So Israel has used chemical weapons on defenceless women and children in Gaza, have they?

What chemical weapons were they?

Nerve Agents? Blood Agents? Choking Agents? You do realise that these are fatal to most people who come into contact with them?

Incapacitating Agents such as Phosegene-Oxime? This particular Blister Agent would be hard to miss and even unschooled people would be hard pressed not to see the evidence.

What is the basis for your post? Where is the hard, documented evidence?

reply to post by BlueRaja


Here are just a couple reasons why Israel is not to be trusted -

The Five Dancing Israelis Arrested On 9-11 - whatreallyhappened.com...

Israelis Inadvertently Admit Complicity in 9/11 Attacks
“Our purpose was to document the event.” - www.thepeoplesvoice.org...

How Israel Created Hamas - www.abovetopsecret.com...

Gaza is now being used as a test laboratory for new weapons - www.abovetopsecret.com...

Israel's Wall in the West Bank - www.abovetopsecret.com...

i could go on and on actually, but this is the closest that i have at hand at the moment with the limited time i have rtight now.

I for one would not trust nukes to Israel. (nor would i their neighbors, especially considering how much hatred Israel has built around them)

Obliterated, I am still waiting for the proof about Israel's use of chemical weapons against the inhabitants of the Gaza Strip.

Grock, I've read your links. Very interesting but not very even handed. Three of the links are threads you started on ATS (hardly impartial) and the other two are another example of your anti-Istaeli rhetoric.

The case against the Israeli nuclear deterent has not been proven and no amount of whipped-up anti-Israeli rhetoric will change anyone's views about Israel's right to co-exist with it's Arab nations in peace.

Only the Arab nations can stop the war in the Middle East. That they chose not to is self evident.

reply to post by fritz

Obliterated, I am still waiting for the proof about Israel's use of chemical weapons against the inhabitants of the Gaza Strip.

Sorry, haven't checked the thread in a few days.

They used white phosphorous. au.youtube.com...