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ISRAEL-PALESTINE : the raw facts

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posted on Jan, 21 2009 @ 11:54 AM
ABRAHAM had no son ...
But being the tribe chief, he needed one because otherwise no successor could be elected. The tribal leadership was inherited by blood line. In this case it was legitimate that the tribe chief had a non-matrimonial son with another woman. After his father’s death, this son would inherit all his rights and duties – like the legal “first son” would have done normally.

So Abraham had a son with Hagar, his egyptian servant, and his name was Ismael.

14 years after Ismael was born, Sara, Abraham’s legal wife, 90 years old, got pregnant and Abraham got his son Isaac.

Ismael and Hagar where sent into the desert and “if God would not have saved them personally, they would have died from thirst”.

Isaac is the ancestor of the Jews.

Ismael, his half-brother, is the ancestor of the Arabs.

Nowadays, like on the days of Abraham, the sons and the daughters of Ismael were told by the sons and the daughters of Isaac : “This is no more your land and your houses.Leave them for they are mine. And go to the desert.”

"472 Palestinian habitations (including towns and villages) were destroyed in 1948. The devastation was virtually complete in some sub-districts. For example, 96.0% of the villages in the Jaffa area were totally destroyed, as were 90.0% of those in Tiberiade, 90.3% of those in Safad, and 95.9% of those in Beisan. It may be extrapolated from the 1931 British census data that over 70 280 Palestinian houses were destroyed in this period"


"By June, 1951 the UNWRA estimated the number of registered refugees to 876,000 ... Today that number has grown to over 4 million, one third of whom live in the West Bank and Gaza; slightly less than one third in Jordan; 17% in Syria and Lebanon and around 15% in other Arab and Western countries. Approximately 1 million refugees have no form of identification other than an UNRWA identification card."

“The Absentees’ Property Laws were several laws, first introduced as emergency ordinances issued by the Jewish leadership but which after the war were incorporated into the laws of Israel”
“They focused on formulating a ‘legal’ definition for the people (mostly Arabs) who had left or been forced to flee from these lands”
“In 1954, more than one third of Israel's Jewish population lived on absentee property and nearly a third of the new immigrants (250,000 people) settled in urban areas abandoned by Arabs. Of 370 new Jewish settlements established between 1948 and 1953, 350 were on absentee property”


Almost complete destruction, houses, schools, hospitals, administrative buildings, UN relief buildings, crops, everything is completely of half destroyed.
Illness and starvation are looming. The wounded are dying "en masse".

These are the raw facts.

Now, please, don't tell us that the Palestinians, or the Hamas, or the Hezbollah, or any person but the israelis, are the "terrorists".

You know who they are.

posted on Jan, 21 2009 @ 12:54 PM
I love how you post fiction as fact. Must be fun. Are you in creative writing by trade? You should be.

Remember - it was Abraham himself - not Isaac - that kicked Ismael out. And you forgot to post why he was kicked out - he was violent and Sarah and Abraham feared for the life of their son Isaac. (Sound familiar? No wonder Arabs have such a reputation for violence.)

You also forgot to mention that the Arabs were requested to vacate their homes by the Arab legions, b/c they didn't want innocent Arabs to die when the Arabs would annihilate the Jews in the 1948 war (same thing happended in 1967). Oops - the Arab legions lost. Oops - their houses were abandoned. Looks like the Arab residents of Palestine (of the time) bet on the wrong horse. Oops.

posted on Jan, 21 2009 @ 01:14 PM
OK you think that facts aren't enough told :

Bus bombings in Haifa and Ramla December 12, 1947 Jewish militias 20 Arabs, 5 Jews and 2 British soldiers killed and 30 wounded [1]al-Tira December 12, 1947 Irgun 13 Beit Nabala December 14, 1947 Arab Legion 14 al-Khisas December 18, 1947 Haganah 10 Bomb thrown on Damascus Gate café in Jerusalem December 29, 1947 Irgun 15 Haifa Oil Refinery December 30, 1947 Irgun, then Arab workers, then Palmach 39 Balad al-Shaykh January 1, 1948 Haganah 17+ Jaffa Bombing January 4 1948 Jewish militias, most likely Irgun 26 killed, hundreds wounded [3] Semiramis Hotel bombing 5 January 1948 Haganah 20 killed [4] Jaffa Gate bombing in Jerusalem 7 January 1948 Irgun 15-20 killed [5] Sa'sa' village ambush in the Safad district February 14, 1948 Palmach 11 [6] Ben Yehuda Street Bombing February 11, 1948 Arab (with British deserters) 58 Jewish Agency Bombing March 11, 1948 Arab irregulars 13 killed, 84 wounded [7] al-Husayniyya March 13, 1948 Palmach 30 Cairo-Haifa train March 31, 1948 Unclear:Lehi/Haganah (and disputed) 40 Deir Yassin April 9, 1948 Irgun, Lehi 100-120 [8][9][10] Qalunya April 12, 1948 Haganah 14 Hadassah medical convoy April 13, 1948 Arab 78[11] Ein al Zeitun May 3, 1948 Palmach 37-70 Kfar Etzion May 13, 1948 Arabs 50-160 Abu Shusha May 14, 1948 Israeli 60-70 al-Tantura May 22-23, 1948 disputed disputed Lydda-Ramleh 11-12 July 1948 Israeli dozens[12] [13] Suqrir 29 August 1948 Givati Brigade of the IDF 10 [14] al-Dawayima October 29, 1948 Haganah 80-100 Safsaf October 29, 1948 Israeli 50-70 Saliha October 30, 1948 Haganah 60-80 Eilabun October 30, 1948 Israeli 13 killed [15] Majd al-Krum October 30, 1948 Israeli 12 killed [16] Hula October 1948 Israeli 35-58 Arab al-Mawasi November 2, 1948 Israeli 14

Please, be factual. Don't escape reality.

I don't think you may call Irgun Hagganah, Palmach as ... kind folks :
Palestinian were in the best case, asked to # off ... That the fact.

posted on Jan, 21 2009 @ 01:37 PM
reply to post by Anonymous ATS

The Jews are recollecting the properties that they left behind in Europe and ware even getting reparations,why not give the Arabs thier land and go to your enemies in Germany to give you the land to build your country,why poor Arabs,your blood brothers that well come you,when come to their land without knowing your bad intentions to take their land.

posted on Jan, 21 2009 @ 02:08 PM
Orkson... My deepest apologies but you will get nowhere with your thread. I posted a few eeks back, a thread on Understanding the Israeli and Palestinian Conflict; The Roots of Zionism only to be met with scorn, ridicule and unending propaganda.

The problem with attempting to dig deep into the strife that Zionism has caused the human race is that Zionist propaganda will instantly get in the way. You see, our media, our education system, even our government have been hijacked by the Zionist in order to help them further their agenda. They use the generous, trusting nature of Americans to persuade us to employ our military, our technology and our political clout against THEIR enemies. All the while they use the ADL and countless other NGOs to influence what is taught to our children and how it is taught, what is discussed in our media and how it is presented to portray the inhabitants of Israel as the "victims."

The key to righting the wrongs that the Zionist have perpetrated upon mankind require a real understanding of history - a history that they have erased, rewritten and positioned to favor their overall agenda. Knowing that truth simply intereferes with the accomplishment of their goals - Eretz-Ysrael. The creation of the Jewish state of Israel is only one portion of the goal. The establishment of Israel as the spiritual center of Judaism is the ultimate goal. This can only be accomplished through the elimination of the Palestinians and total control of Jerusalem where they will build their Temple on the Mound. They are intent on accomplishing this goal regardless of the costs to mankind and will do so through any and all means necessary.

To this end they invest massively in making sure that they control the information consumed by the masses, to shape and mould how they are perceived. As you can see from the reponses already they have achieved this to a certain extent. What they have not counted on are people like me; scholars of historical fact intent on spreading the truth.

posted on Jan, 21 2009 @ 02:17 PM
reply to post by orkson

Ok, do you understand that even in your list there are terror attacks by Arabs and Jews? Together?
By the way,it is nice that you start from 1947. How about 1920s? Ever heard about
that kind of started the blood flowing in the conflict? Etsel/Hagana were not there yet.

posted on Jan, 21 2009 @ 03:04 PM
The aftermath of these massacres was :
"Altogether 195 Arabs and 34 Jews were sentenced by the courts for crimes related to the 1929 riots. Death sentences were handed down to 17 Arabs and 2 Jews, but these were later commuted to long prison terms except in the case of 3 Arabs who were hanged. Large fines were imposed on about 25 Arab villages or urban neighborhoods. Some financial compensation was paid to persons who lost family members or property.

Some Hebron Arabs, amongst whom the President of Hebron's Chamber of Commerce, Ahmad Rashid al-Hirbawi, favoured the return of Jews to the town.[11] 160 Jews did return in the spring of 1931 with Rabbi Chaim Bagaio, but were evacuated, except for one family, again during the 1936-1939 Arab revolt in Palestine.[12] The last family left in 1947.

As of 2008, hundreds of Jews live in Hebron again."

In this terrible history, the guilty were condemned.

One will wait a long time before the culpits of all the further massacres are trialed and condemned...

How much should pay Israel for 1,500+ bombed in GAZA, the white phosporus, the DIME shells, the 400+ children killed, the endless blocade of 1.500.000 men, women and children ?

The FACT is : those men and women and children, ounce, had a land. They had their house and their crops, and their trees on this land.
Nothing is left. And if ever they protest, they are bombed as "terrorists".

The least we can do, is to recall what was their history.

posted on Jan, 21 2009 @ 03:17 PM
People who were forcefully evicted (or even ran away by themself) in 1947-8 should recieve monetary compensation. At least it is my opinion. And again just to clear things out - you see that last Jew left Hebron in 1947 in your link? Well this is not the only place Jews were thrown out or fled in the war, just as Arabs. Where Israeli forces won one population suffered and where Arab forces won - other. Israel took much more territory in the war thus number of fugitives on Arab side is much larger.
If Gaza was not "protesting" with rockets while it was not blockaded and after Israel left Gaza completely , removing settlements (that some of them existed in 1947 and people were thrown out by Egyptian army) then it would not be a prison, would it? Why West bank is not a prison? Same Palestinians but no rockets. Anyone who thinks that firing rockets and mortars for years at other country , much stronger, is a legitimate form of protest must expect poor result of this kind of protest. And while of course it is not fault of those hundreds of civilians who were killed, this "protest" form is just as guilty in their death as actions of Israel.

posted on Jan, 21 2009 @ 03:29 PM
I agree with you, ZeroKnowledge : firing stupid rockets (opposed to "intelligent bombs") against a much stronger people is a poor form of protesting.

But what is also true, is that over-bombing with the latest technology a much weaker people is a war crime.

posted on Jan, 21 2009 @ 03:46 PM
Sarcasm is always good way to present things, but exaggerations are not. If Israel used only artillery against Palestinians in Gaza, or simply fired same type of rockets then number of killed on Palestinian side would be a lot bigger. And proportions between militants and civilians killed would be even worse. War crimes are not about technology level or strong vs weak. There are different criteria.
What in your opinion is a positive result of rocket "protest"? I fail to see what people in Gaza gained , and it is pretty clear what they lost. Once again, West bank without this kind of protest is in much better state of affairs, would not you agree? With all the problems that are still there.
Gaza was in a much better situation in all aspects before rockets. After them it is a shadow of itself. And it is not stupid form of protest?

posted on Jan, 21 2009 @ 04:44 PM
I will end my responses to you, zeroknowledge, by this one : the only weapon which has the weak before the strong, is to provoque the strong.

You should remember the struggle of DAVID and GOLIATH.

Before his death, GOLIATH was mocking DAVID, as you do, with the Palestinians.

The result of that, to-day ?
Please, open a newspaper (even in Israel, read Haaretz ...)
Have a look on any TV.
Hear the radios, even in the farest country.

And what is told ? What is shown, what is recalled everywhere ?

In lieu of a silent and long death by strangulation, the Palestinians have been violently murdered by a fiery and inhuman army. That is what is shown in full light, everywhere in the world.

And you think that it is not a result ?

And think of it : would I have told all that to YOU if DAVID had NOT provoqued GOLIATH ?

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