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Antarctic ice shelf set to collapse due to warming

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posted on Jan, 20 2009 @ 10:22 PM
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Originally posted by Absum!
reply to post by dooper
 


Yeah, global cooling that's the ticket.
But, what does the NOAA data say...

2008 Global Tempeture



2008 Global Temperature Ties As Eighth Warmest On Record
ScienceDaily (Jan. 19, 2009) — The year 2008 tied with 2001 as the eighth warmest year on record for the Earth, based on the combined average of worldwide land and ocean surface temperatures through December, according to a preliminary analysis by NOAA’s National Climatic Data Center in Asheville, N.C. For December alone, the month also ranked as the eighth warmest globally, for the combined land and ocean surface temperature. The assessment is based on records dating back to 1880.

so you are telling me that these records are so accurate and they had the technology to measure sea temperatures back to 1880s
Temperatures are now taken from Airports and on top of buildings, satelite temps are now being taken from space.
It is just using a bad science to try and prove something which cannot be varified.
50 years ago cities where smaller and temperatures where a little more accurate.
90 years ago even more accurate.
These computer models do not take all the factors into place, they pick a point in time and then take that as the base and work the rest out from there.

How did they get accurate global temperatures for sea surface in 1880?




posted on Jan, 20 2009 @ 10:25 PM
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Originally posted by munkey66


Hurricanes are formed by a low pressure area over warm water, Low pressures are exteremely cold.
warm water rises from the ocean into the low pressure and cools the warm air fast which forces it down , the colder the air, the faster it falls back down, more warm moist air is dragged up into the low and again the water cools and drops to sea level, this cycle continues getting faster causing a spiral effect, warm air up, cold air down.


Low pressure areas are not cold, they are warm. They are warm because of warm air rising from warm water (or ground). Warm air is less dense than cold air, therefore the pressure is less.
en.wikipedia.org...

Hurricanes are maintained by the heat from the ocean. Land does not hold as much thermal energy as the water so when a hurricane makes landfall it dies.
Hurricanes

[edit on 1/20/2009 by Phage]



posted on Jan, 20 2009 @ 10:36 PM
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Originally posted by munkey66


How did they get accurate global temperatures for sea surface in 1880?



By using something called a thermometer.

Existing historical records of sea surface temperature extending back to the mid 1800's are a valuable source of information for understanding climate variability at interannual and decadal time-scales
adsabs.harvard.edu...



posted on Jan, 20 2009 @ 11:05 PM
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Originally posted by Phage
Low pressure areas are not cold, they are warm. They are warm because of warm air rising from warm water (or ground). Warm air is less dense than cold air, therefore the pressure is less.
en.wikipedia.org...

[edit on 1/20/2009 by Phage]

So what happens when this warm moist air rises into warm air?
temperatures decrease as it gets higher tropopause- is where all the weather occurs
rate of temperature decrease is about 6.5 degrees Celsius per 1 km (called the lapse rate)

A low pressure allows the warm moist air to rise into it where it is cooled and forced down.
The cooled air does not go back down against the warm air rising, it gets thrown out the back of the storm and the storm itself feeds from the warm water, constantly allowing warm moist air up, the faster the cold air is thrown out of the top of the system the lower the pressure and faster the evaporation takes place, that is why storms with lower pressure are far larger than with a higher low pressure systems.
If this warm moist air rushes up to meet more warm moist air, all you do is fill in the void equalizing the low pressure and ending up with a lot of rain.



posted on Jan, 20 2009 @ 11:08 PM
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Originally posted by Phage

Originally posted by munkey66


How did they get accurate global temperatures for sea surface in 1880?



By using something called a thermometer.

Existing historical records of sea surface temperature extending back to the mid 1800's are a valuable source of information for understanding climate variability at interannual and decadal time-scales
adsabs.harvard.edu...


using your own source

Existing historical records of sea surface temperature extending back to the mid 1800's are a valuable source of information for understanding climate variability at interannual and decadal time-scales. However, the temporal and spatial irregularity of these data make them difficult to use in scientific climate research



posted on Jan, 20 2009 @ 11:25 PM
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Originally posted by munkey66

A low pressure allows the warm moist air to rise into it where it is cooled and forced down.
The cooled air does not go back down against the warm air rising, it gets thrown out the back of the storm and the storm itself feeds from the warm water, constantly allowing warm moist air up, the faster the cold air is thrown out of the top of the system the lower the pressure and faster the evaporation takes place, that is why storms with lower pressure are far larger than with a higher low pressure systems.
If this warm moist air rushes up to meet more warm moist air, all you do is fill in the void equalizing the low pressure and ending up with a lot of rain.


Yes, you are correct. The storm "feeds" on the warm water. When the storm moves onto land or colder water, it dies. The storm does not warm the water. The warmer the water, the warmer the air, the warmer the air the lower the low.

[edit on 1/20/2009 by Phage]



posted on Jan, 20 2009 @ 11:36 PM
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reply to post by munkey66
 

The source is about a study which compares models using old data from dispersed points and dispersed points of new data. The results when the new data is used in the model is compared to the known wide area temperatures and found to match. This shows that when the old data is applied to the model the results should also be valid.



posted on Jan, 21 2009 @ 12:46 AM
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Originally posted by Darthorious
All I know is if the winter there is anything like it has been here by the end of it the glacier won't be in too much danger of breaking off.

Where I'm at we have had the coldest, snowiest winter in over 10 years.


We have to remember that right now it's the hottest summer in the Antarctic, not winter. The temperatures tend to be at their highest in the southern hemisphere around this time of the year.

It seems that whenever there are major headline news of ice melting in the Antarctic it's winter – but only in the northern hemisphere. People tend to forget or ignore that.

Are such news common in June or July?



posted on Jan, 21 2009 @ 01:11 AM
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Originally posted by Phage

Yes, you are correct. The storm "feeds" on the warm water. When the storm moves onto land or colder water, it dies. The storm does not warm the water. The warmer the water, the warmer the air, the warmer the air the lower the low.

[edit on 1/20/2009 by Phage]

I know the storm does not warm the water, the temperature has to be around 27 degrees celcius at 27 metres for around 7 weeks.
I had to learn all about this stuff because I worked on water for a long time in the tropics.
Warm air up, cold air down, thats why if a cyclone sits stationary for a period of time it actually looses strength, it cools the surface of the water and developes into a tropical depression



posted on Jan, 21 2009 @ 01:19 AM
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Originally posted by projectvxn

Antarctic ice shelf set to collapse due to warming


www.reuters.com

By Alister Doyle, Environment Correspondent

WILKINS ICE SHELF, Antarctica (Reuters) - A huge Antarctic ice shelf is on the brink of collapse with just a sliver of ice holding it in place, the latest victim of global warming that is altering maps of the frozen continent.

"We've come to the Wilkins Ice Shelf to see its final death throes," David Vaughan, a glaciologist at the British Antarctic Survey (BAS), told Reuters after the first -- and probably last -- plane landed near the narrowest part of the ice.

The flat-topped shelf has an area of thousands of square kilometers, jutting 20 meters (65 ft) out of the sea off the Antarctic Peninsula.

But it is held together only by an ever-thinning 40-km (25-mile) strip of ice that has eroded to an hour-glass shape just 500 meters wide at its narrowest.

In 1950, the strip was almost 100 km wide.
(visit the link for the full news article)


Related News Links:
www.pbs.org



www.google.de...



posted on Jan, 21 2009 @ 01:56 AM
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Originally posted by munkey66
Hurricanes will be worse if the global temperature cools, not warms.

Hurricanes are formed by a low pressure area over warm water, Low pressures are exteremely cold....

do you think they are more sever or less?


You're thinking the opposite. The simplest way I could explain the mechanics of a hurricane is they convert heat to kinetic energy. Heat in the form of ambient atmospheric temperature, solar energy, and sea surface temp. And kinetic energy in the form of wind.

Exactly why a passing hurricane cause drop in temperature in the area. It's converting heat into other forms of energy like wind, less heat = lower temps. But they can still occur in extremely cold temperatures, because anything above absolute zero has heat. But more heat, more energy, more powerful storms.

[edit on 21-1-2009 by ahnggk]



posted on Jan, 21 2009 @ 03:13 AM
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reply to post by projectvxn
 


"Antarctic ice shelf set to collapse due to warming"

The article neglected to mentioned the Volcano(!!!) under the Ice sheet.

Oh well - typical Carbon cultist behavior....



posted on Jan, 21 2009 @ 04:24 AM
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reply to post by ahnggk
 


No I am not thinking the opposite.

If you heat up a hot air balloon and it rises into the air, the air cools in the balloon and it starts do descend again requiring more heat to keep it aloft.

If the low pressure system is warm you only get a tropical depression, the air has to cycle in order to generate more strength to the system.

The biggest problem with Climate science is that the earth is around 4.5 billion years old and we have accurate temperature measurements from when ???? around 50 years
trying to figure out what is normal or abnormal weather patterns is virtually impossible without knowing a larger slice of history.
What variations are they not including in the data? what about continental drift? polar shifts? volcanoes ect........
There are so many variants that the computer models have still yet to be accurate.

The science being used is the equivalent to a person saying that because a couple of hairs fell out of your head that you are going bald.



posted on Jan, 21 2009 @ 06:41 AM
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Originally posted by projectvxn

Say what you will about the causes of GW. It is happening whether we like it or not. And it is getting worse. Something this large collapsing into the ocean cannot be a good thing. Especially in small Island nations like Kiribati. PBS did a special on this little Island and on the looming refugee crisis that threatens to displace 6 million people as GW worsens.

www.reuters.com
(visit the link for the full news article)

[edit on 20-1-2009 by projectvxn]


Global warming yesterday, climate change today, global cooling tomorrow...

If you did just a little research, instead of listening to Al gores goons you would have discovered that "climate change" is a natural cycle.
When the ice on the land breaks into the ocean and melts, it raises the water. Which then in turn cools down the land, which then starts to cool down the entire planet creating an ice age, then the cycle repaeats it self, the land warms up , melts ice, raises ocean, rinse and repeat every 14-16,000 years...



[edit on 21-1-2009 by SKUNK2]



posted on Jan, 21 2009 @ 07:18 AM
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Melting sea Ice in the Antarctica in particular holds back teh flows from the land - this is the major area of concern, secondly it shields the black water underneath which is heat absorbent, and three it actually reflects heat back - all of which add to global warming and the ice flows from the inland are THE major concern for the planet (representing a 67 meter rise if all land ice melts).

Almost all major inland glaciers will be severely affected or gone altogether by mid century - these glaciers represent what are known as the Third Pole.



posted on Jan, 21 2009 @ 07:19 AM
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Originally posted by SKUNK2

Originally posted by projectvxn

Say what you will about the causes of GW. It is happening whether we like it or not. And it is getting worse. Something this large collapsing into the ocean cannot be a good thing. Especially in small Island nations like Kiribati. PBS did a special on this little Island and on the looming refugee crisis that threatens to displace 6 million people as GW worsens.

www.reuters.com
(visit the link for the full news article)

[edit on 20-1-2009 by projectvxn]


Global warming yesterday, climate change today, global cooling tomorrow...

If you did just a little research, instead of listening to Al gores goons you would have discovered that "climate change" is a natural cycle.
When the ice on the land breaks into the ocean and melts, it raises the water. Which then in turn cools down the land, which then starts to cool down the entire planet creating an ice age, then the cycle repaeats it self, the land warms up , melts ice, raises ocean, rinse and repeat every 14-16,000 years...



[edit on 21-1-2009 by SKUNK2]


you have no idea.

Cheers.



posted on Jan, 21 2009 @ 07:21 AM
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Originally posted by munkey66

Originally posted by Phage

Yes, you are correct. The storm "feeds" on the warm water. When the storm moves onto land or colder water, it dies. The storm does not warm the water. The warmer the water, the warmer the air, the warmer the air the lower the low.

[edit on 1/20/2009 by Phage]

I know the storm does not warm the water, the temperature has to be around 27 degrees celcius at 27 metres for around 7 weeks.
I had to learn all about this stuff because I worked on water for a long time in the tropics.
Warm air up, cold air down, thats why if a cyclone sits stationary for a period of time it actually looses strength, it cools the surface of the water and developes into a tropical depression


Warmer surface temperatures dramatically increase the severity of a cyclone.

Fact.



posted on Jan, 21 2009 @ 05:12 PM
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reply to post by audas
 


I will try and explain this in a different way because I am beginning to think English is my second language.

In general the temperature of the atmosphere is colder the higher you go, that is why we have snow on mountain tops even in hot countries, Kilimanjaro in Africa for example.

Now just in case you still don’t believe me
I will also give another example, Hail
Hail forms in storm clouds when supercooled water droplets freeze on contact with condensation nuclei, such as dust or dirt. The storm's updraft blows the hailstones to the upper part of the cloud. The updraft dissipates and the hailstones fall down, back into the updraft, and are lifted up again. The hailstone gains an ice layer and grows increasingly larger with each ascent. Once a hailstone becomes too heavy to be supported by the storm's updraft, it falls from the cloud.
This occurs in summer when it is hot, not in winter when it is cold.

Now we do not get Hail in the Tropics because the conditions are not suitable, it is too warm, there is no argument there, but we do get Tropical cyclones,
Now a cyclone is basically a low pressure system over warm water, imagine the low pressure is like a chimney, the low pressure chimney pulls in warm moist air from hundreds of miles around the cyclone to fuel the cyclone. The warm moist air is carried thousands of feet up the chimney where it is spewed out in cold dry air to form clouds of moisture. The cool air will then fall back to earth because cold air is more dense than warm, this will cause a type of vacuum and causing the low pressure to have even less pressure allowing more and more moist air up the chimney to be thrown out the top again to be cooled and repeated again and again.

Logically, if the upper atmosphere was warm and you introduced warm moist air into it what would be the result?
Lots of warm moist air is the answer

Introduce warm moist air into a cold environment and you have an extreme, now my question to those who have been educated by Al Gore, why are cyclones and hurricanes getting more severe if the atmosphere is warming given the above descriptions of how these form.

People may want to do their own research into super cell formation as well as contrail formation, because we are seeing more and more contrails and if you don’t believe they are deliberately spraying them, they must be forming because the atmosphere is cooling in the higher regions, they wouldn’t last as long if it was warmer



posted on Jan, 22 2009 @ 09:20 PM
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Originally posted by Darthorious

We have to remember that right now it's the hottest summer in the Antarctic, not winter. The temperatures tend to be at their highest in the southern hemisphere around this time of the year.

It seems that whenever there are major headline news of ice melting in the Antarctic it's winter – but only in the northern hemisphere. People tend to forget or ignore that.

Are such news common in June or July?


Arctic sea ice reflects sunlight, keeping the polar regions cool and moderating global climate. According to scientific measurements, Arctic sea ice has declined dramatically over at least the past thirty years, with the most extreme decline seen in the summer melt season.

Read timely scientific analysis year-round below. We provide an update during the first week of each month, or more frequently as conditions warrant. National Snow and Ice Data Center



National Snow and Ice Data Center

Note: The daily extent chart now shows the winter of 2006 to 2007 (dashed green line).
The graph will continue to show 2007, which went on to reach the lowest summer minimum in the satellite record.

The continued significant reduction in the extent of the summer sea ice cover is a dramatic illustration of the pronounced impact increased global temperatures are having on the Arctic regions. There has also been a significant reduction in the relative amount of older, thicker ice.


National Snow and Ice Data Center
NSIDC

The data shows a trend. Yes, we could go through cycles, it could be natural, nevertheless we will experience this change in our lifetime and you must admit we didn't help the situation.



posted on Jan, 23 2009 @ 01:00 AM
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A collapsing ice shelf of this size could easily cause a tsunami or other sudden ocean level rise with disastrous consequences for the southern hemisphere. At least our crop seeds are secure in their ark.



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