John Titor said "The Next President tries to be the next Lincoln" Is there any doubt Civil War is

reply to post by nenothtu


The Titor discussion took place in 2001 or 2000, I imagine she had a computer by then, obviously.



[edit on 22-1-2009 by rapinbatsisaltherage]

Originally posted by nenothtu

Is there some reason that creation of ONE new worldline would automatically erase all others?

Gosh, I hope not. Did someone say it would?

Tell me something. You are the third Titorfan to claim I have said something very different from anything I have actually said. Is there a conclusion to draw between belief in Titor's story and complete lack of reading comprehension skills? I do not mean that as a personal insult but three believers have now stated that I am saying things I have never said. Can you quote me? It is ok, the other guys couldn't quote me saying what they claimed either. Either you are all the same guy, all have a problem understanding what you read or...just make up things in your head to justify the crazy things that you say.

If not, what would prevent a return to another, nearly indistinguishable worldline?

The problem starts with you somehow reading "ONE" new worldline. I clearly stated that each trip creates a new worldline. Do you not understand the implications of that? Titor will always be traveling in what is to him a straight line that runs parallel to the time that he just 'arrived' in. Please feel free to explain how these lines could ever criss cross. That should be entertaining.

And if that's possible, then what prevents the notion of multiple Titors on multiple worldlines from being sent out, then returning to a nearly indistinguishable timeline, with a low "temporal divergence"? "A" Titor would return, not necessarily "THE" Titor that originated on that particular timeline.

Doesn't "divergence" imply something to diverge FROM, as in another worldline?

Still not saying that I do believe or don't, just saying that I have questions. Flame me for 'em at will, I'm fireproof.

nenothtu out

Good thing you are fireproof because I have trouble being nice to people that so clearly miscontstrue the actual things I type out so they can even be referred back to.

Where did all these Titors come from again? How did we get to a point where there are many Titors and we can gamble on a chance that one or two might make it back? You will have to expand on that for me to get what you are trying to say.

Let's humor you for a moment. You are a scientist in need of a computer from the past. With limited funds and resources, you spend a great deal of both on the gamble that time might criss cross or somehow split John up enough times to raise the chances of his return?
Or let's humor you the other way, so John returns to a world that is just slightly different. You are still that scientist. You need that computer. You are going to spend time, money, and energy to send a man back in time to get it so that he can go to another future that is slightly different and give it to that slightly different scientist? Why would you do that? How do you know the difference is not that they do not need the computer? That in itself ignores the fact that the slightly different world with the slightly different scientist would not even exist if John never made the trip anyway.

Are you starting to see why it takes a lack of common sense to believe this guy?

Originally posted by TheColdDragon
reply to post by Luciferdescending

 

Both have as yet to be proven.

Furthermore, I called nobody a liar. I alluded to the possibility,

- and that is exactly what I said you did. Seriously, what is with this thread? Should I type more slowly?

Look, she stated a fact. It was a fact of which you had forgotten or were never aware but it was a fact. You could have checked. You could have asked around. Either one would have told you that what she had stated was true. Instead you decided to insinuate that she was lying due to your ignorance on the subject of which she was speaking. Feel better?

because internet people aren't the most trustworthy of individuals in a general sense.

Tell me about it. There once was this internet guy who was posting on the internet that he was from the future and...ah you don't want to hear about that.

Just because you state it, ad nauseum, does not make it true.

Is it working for you?

As I stated before, I won't budge on that there were emails. I distinctly remember reading the posts concerning them. Of course, the posts I remember also didn't go into details because some of the members of the old board did not want to discuss them.

Did I say there were not emails? I am not sure what your are being budged on but I did not argue that point. What I said was that some of us still have all of this stuff and can check it. Some of us do not have to claim that other people are most likely lying because we are just remembering what we read 5 years ago. Do I need to type more slowly and state everything twice?

However, since my memories are not substantiated by being able to cite accurate sources, I feel the irrelevancy of my last few posts are apparent now that I have had some sleep.

So it was not just me then?

Furthermore, it becomes apparent now that I have had some sleep that neither yourself or the other person responding to the MWT posts actually care about the physics or relevancy of the subject to the topic.

What is the title of the thread that you are posting on? Here it is "John Titor said "The Next President tries to be the next Lincoln" Is there any doubt Civil War is......" I guess yours says something about MWT. Help a brother out here, are we on parallel but slightly divergent threads?

So I will instead return to explaining why the story of Titor is possible with actual science being conducted today... because if it is provably possible, it makes the entire "Hoax" you claim this is more plausible.

No, it does not. Marty and Doc could show up in my house right now and take me to see flying cars and dinosaurs. John Titor will still be a hoax. Please stop confusing time travel with Titor. One is a concept to be explored, the other is a science fiction author. Please tell me I do not have to explain which is which.

In summary, Titor has never definitively been proven a hoax by anyone. The two stances that think they have proven this are people who claim he was just making educated guesses based on information available at the time (Does not disprove the story), or claim their are inconsistencies in his story (Without supplying them specifically), or actually draw assumptions based off of things they have read here on ATS from other posters who have had their perceptions formed by other people rather than the actual information on hand.

It is one reason that the Titor thread was some 150 pages long. As such, you are unlikely to convince anyone of anything using the rhetorical methods you are practicing.

Google the word summary.

Originally posted by TheColdDragon
In summary, ....

You left out a few things. There are those of us the do not believe the story for reasons other than any you stated. You left out the fact that his story is not logical. It falls apart on its own explanation. The story does not hold up to critical thought. If you really want to measure the honesty of a man by the length of his thread, I have some threads I would love to show you over here in the corner.

Originally posted by titorite
reply to post by Luciferdescending

 

Some people that use this whole internet experience prefer to use it for entertainment and enrichment rather than worrying about weather or not a person on the other end of the internet is lying to them.

I'm just saying getting into heated arguments online is like running in a one legged race. It doesn't matter who wins they still are still a leg short.

Whats with the obsession?

I joined this website that has the slogan "deny ignorance." I kind of liked that theme so I went with it. I am sorry that you are on a different site and colddragon is on a different thread altogether. You two should join me here where it makes more sense to ramble on as I do than it does to worship a liar and a bad one at that.

Originally posted by kdial1

If you do not believe in the Many-worlds theory yes it is NOT possible and I am chatting to a brick wall or simple mind, but if you believe in the many worlds theory there is infinite possibilities and then in one of those worlds you are sitting there flapping wings!!

Thus I am proving right now my point there are 2 types of people on this board. People that believe in the single world line theory and people who believe in the many-worlds theory. Thank you for being a perfect example.

Ok, fine. You win. There is the possibility that somewhere there is a world where I am the same + wings. Is there a possibility that person and myself are both typing to this one you right now? Can my post be followed up by 'my' post? No. Anything is NOT possible. Anything is a tall order. Unless another me from another world is going to pop in to tell me what amazing posts I have left, we are going to have to agree to disagree on your premise.

Multiple worlds? ok. John Titor being a time traveller? NO. John travelling back in time until there are so many of him that one is bound to make it back? NO. We can do this all day but I have to run out for a bit. Don't miss me 'cuz I know ya will.

reply to post by Luciferdescending



Show me a man that never lied. I'll show you man that just told one.
Nobody worships Titor.. not to my knowledge. I think you have confused ignorance with boredom. You have gone well past making your thoughts known and now your just looking to argue for the sake of killing time.

Your crusade has less to do with denying ignorance and more with filling up your down time.

Have a good time with that.


[edit on 22-1-2009 by titorite]

Originally posted by titorite
reply to post by Luciferdescending

 

Show me a man that never lied. I'll show you man that just told one.
Nobody worships Titor.. not to my knowledge. I think you have confused ignorance with boredom. You have gone well past making your thoughts known and now your just looking to argue for the sake of killing time.

Your crusade has less to do with denying ignorance and more with filling up your down time.

Have a good time with that.

First of all, I never claimed that anyone is honest did I? Do I write so cryptically that not one of you Titor fans can understand me?

Second, no one worships him? Said poster - Titorite.

Third, what are you doing here. I get that cold dragon thinks they are on a completely different thread and wants to talk about MWT. I get that. What are you doing here other than promoting John?

Correct me if I am wrong but I believe your thoughts on the matter were summed up the moment your screen name entered this thread so what is the reason you continue to post sticking up for the man? Why the crusade? Are you afraid that you have not conveyed your belief in the man yet?

It is late January in Western NY. Yes I am bored and ATS is boring lately. At least this thread has kept me entertained but please feel free to check my history and see this is not my obsession. I can also admit that I have a sore spot for Titor because like Reed and Hutchinson, there are a few key fans out there that have no problem constantly making up new details and 'facts' and ideas to help make something work because it fell apart all on its own. That bothers me.

Now that I have unduly explained myself to you, I expect nothing less than the same courtesy in return. Or will you show me the courtesy that colddragon does and state that you think I am lying because you did not understand, remember, get, read, what I stated? Or will you go on promoting your friend and trying with all your might to make it true all while accusing anyone who points out the ignorance of that a troll or bored or obsessed. Your call and it matters little but it is nice that you are all revealing your true character. All it took was a little devil to get in ya.

there are a few key fans out there that have no problem constantly making up new details and 'facts' and ideas to help make something work because it fell apart all on its own. That bothers me.

Then take heart that Titor has never said one more new word and that he got some of his things incorrect. The Olympics are off and the US is not in a civil war of a violent nature.. still

AS a fan follower not a devoted worshiper...

I think that the story is still worth following. I have a good record I am well liked in my community, I am not a trouble starter. Others follow along to and our lives are not encumbered or hindered. We are not ignorant of any detail. If anything you might even say we know a bit more. Not because of what Titor said exclusively but because of what we did after we read it. Most of us educated ourselves. Most of us did not spend time in these forums arguing with others. I guess you could say I base my interest off the preponderance of evidence that "I" have been introduced too.

BUt my question was about your debunking obsession...

WHats with your obsession? You aren't by chance an atheist are you?

[edit on 22-1-2009 by titorite]

reply to post by nenothtu


Actually, you bring up an excellent point. If one Titor was sent out from a particular worldline, chances are that multiple were sent out from various very similar worldlines for similar (Or perhaps dissimilar) missions.

Now, that doesn't mean that all Titor's sent out arrived in our worldline, only that the likelihood of *A* Titor returning to the original world line that *THE* Titor departed from is a high likelihood... so perhaps the thought is that you may not be able to return to your worldline, but someone just like you (Or close enough not to matter) will return to the loved ones you left.

Excellent question, by the by. I like those sorts.

reply to post by Luciferdescending


Actually, Multi-World theorem states that there are worlds that may be governed by different physical laws, and as such, there may be a world where paths cross from two different you's. This also is possible, despite the globally recognized terrible movie Timecop (The same mass can't occupy the same space theory).

Literally, anything and everything that can occur will occur. Even Hawking himself verifies that Chthulhu could come out of a blackhole at any moment... and he was serious about it. Now, he did make the point that the odds are pretty low (Many very unlikely things have low odds in our universe), but the percentages would vary from worldline to worldline.

I would posit if the Multiworld Theorem is accurate, that it is inevitable that all worldlines will eventually cross if one worldline is capable of it... as the function would propogate across the multiverse.

Originally posted by titorite

AS a fan follower not a devoted worshiper...

In either case, it seriously cripples ones ability to think critically on the matter. By default, being a fan alludes that you want it to be true.

I think that the story is still worth following.

But the 'story' finished 7+ years ago and collapsed on itself.

All we've seen since then are internet support groups for those who can't accept the former and spend their time twisting, warping, excuse making and reinterpreting Titors words in the desperate hope they can pull a rabbit out of a hat and magically turn Titor into the real deal. But hey, I guess in some alternate time line, someone has achieved just that huh!

I have a good record I am well liked in my community, I am not a trouble starter.

Do you always write your own references in such a glowing fashion?

We are not ignorant of any detail. If anything you might even say we know a bit more.

To suggest you are not ignorant of any detail would suggest.. ummm... ignorance! Do you practice Yoga? I'd imagine one would need incredible flexibility to pat ones self so firmly on the back. That's one lofty perch you've placed yourself upon!

Most of us educated ourselves. Most of us did not spend time in these forums arguing with others.

That's all very apparent as it seems you're not accustomed to having your beliefs challenged in the Titor support network.

WHats with your obsession?

Said titorite talking about Titor!

You aren't by chance an atheist are you?

What does that have to do with Titor?

Nice try but no cigar!

IRM

[edit on 23/1/09 by InfaRedMan]

Originally posted by optyk phyba
john titor's ip was tracked to a teenage boy.

Can you please post your source for this information?

Thank you.

Originally posted by TheColdDragon
reply to post by nenothtu

 

Actually, you bring up an excellent point. If one Titor was sent out from a particular worldline, chances are that multiple were sent out from various very similar worldlines for similar (Or perhaps dissimilar) missions.

Now, that doesn't mean that all Titor's sent out arrived in our worldline, only that the likelihood of *A* Titor returning to the original world line that *THE* Titor departed from is a high likelihood... so perhaps the thought is that you may not be able to return to your worldline, but someone just like you (Or close enough not to matter) will return to the loved ones you left.

Excellent question, by the by.

I like those sorts.

No, he does not and no it is not. Are you suggesting that there is a chance that one or more of those worldlines may contain a John Titor whose time travel works on a completely different mechannism than ours? Are you suggesting that in one of those worldlines at least, the laws that govern the way things happen just might be ass-backwards and there for allow a return trip?

This is what we mean by "just making crap up to try to jam this round story into your square hold." Every John Titor on every worldline will still be traveling in a straight line just parallel to where he was. Care to explain to me how the entire process might work differently on another worldline to allow him the return trip that our JT never got to have. If that is the case, then why did the scientists that sent out JT back even bother. Obviously the physics in his worldline work the same as ours so they knew that JT was not coming back

Critical thinking well really help you all to realize that each and every new JT theory is just another person trying to make the story work because it does not work on its own.

Nice try though.

Originally posted by titorite

Then take heart that Titor has never said one more new word and that he got some of his things incorrect. The Olympics are off and the US is not in a civil war of a violent nature.. still

I know, bummer right? The world did not collapse into chaos, the US is not killing half itself off. I can totally understand why you would be sad at that? - sarcasm, I know you titorites have trouble with my use of words so I want to make sure you see that is sarcasm. You should be happy that he was wrong and yet, you seem more forlorn that there is no civil war tearing up the U.S. Strange sentiment but I am sure you are still a good person deep down in there.

AS a fan follower not a devoted worshiper...

Says "Titorite."

I think that the story is still worth following. I have a good record I am well liked in my community, I am not a trouble starter. Others follow along to and our lives are not encumbered or hindered. We are not ignorant of any detail. If anything you might even say we know a bit more.

Who is this we because cold dragon seems to know nothing about it and claims anyone who does must be lying because he does not remember it and between three of you, I have had to translate English to English for ech of you so...let's not pat ourself on the back too hard ok. How do you know more? What do you know that you are keeping from us? What knowledge do you have that skeptics have not seen? I am open. If there is more to know and you know it, please share. Honestly, I think that is a lame attempt at calling nonbelievers ignorant and stupid. This is your argument, that it is true because you know more than me. Cool, fill me in.

Not because of what Titor said exclusively but because of what we did after we read it.

Like make up things he never said and claim he either said them or meant to say them to cover up the gaping holes he left in his story?

Most of us educated ourselves. Most of us did not spend time in these forums arguing with others. I guess you could say I base my interest off the preponderance of evidence that "I" have been introduced too.

Wow, and all it took was me calling him a liar and look what happened. Now you are wasting your time arguing about it in an internet forum. In fact, check out your post history. Each and every - and there are a lot - post of the JT nature is on a thread where you argued about it with someone. Please explain to me again what pretending that you know more and are a better person does to this argument? If you know more, you are hiding it and if you are too good to waste time arguing on an internet forum, why does it feel a lot like you are arguing with me on an internet forum?

BUt my question was about your debunking obsession...

WHats with your obsession? You aren't by chance an atheist are you?

I actually answered this question quite explicitly. I received a U2U directly about that answer and I can still see it so I know I posted it and I know it is up there. One would get the feeling that Titor fans have trouble reading for a moment. Wait...this is a pattern isn't it? D'oh!

Maybe if you spent less time telling people that they said things they have noit said or less time telling people to explain things to you that they already have and more time thinking about the BS you read, you would open your mind a little bit to the possibility that this man lied. Your mind is obviously closed on the subject so let em as (deja vu) what are you posting here for? - see that is funny because I already asked that after my explanation about my 'obsession.' I love typing the exact same thing twice for each and every fan of John Titor that cannot be bothered to read for themselves the first time.

No, I am not an Atheist but I sure hope you are going to tell me why that is at all relevant.

Originally posted by TheColdDragon
reply to post by Luciferdescending

 

Actually, Multi-World theorem states that there are worlds that may be governed by different physical laws, and as such, there may be a world where paths cross from two different you's. This also is possible, despite the globally recognized terrible movie Timecop (The same mass can't occupy the same space theory).

That is nice really but you keep missing the most important part and that is that this thread is not about MWT. This thread is about John Titor. Have I said this already? Feels repetitive for some reason but I am sure a smart guy like you would not keep confusing the thread title over and over leading me to correct you over and over right?

Literally, anything and everything that can occur will occur.

You do not get it. Even that does not mean ANYTHING can occur. Is it possible for me to right now from where I am sitting kiss your cheek or punch your face? I know the answer -'on some other world somewhere that is happening blah blah blah....' NO. That is not the anything pool I am drawing from. Can I on this worldline right now reach over and just hit you from here? No. Not anything is possible. Our worldline has laws to its physics and besides that, our worldline gave us a John Titor that already explained that this is NOT what is happening anyway. I am going to take him at his word instead of just grabbing from other ideas to make his work.

Even Hawking himself verifies that Chthulhu could come out of a blackhole at any moment... and he was serious about it. Now, he did make the point that the odds are pretty low (Many very unlikely things have low odds in our universe), but the percentages would vary from worldline to worldline.

Right, there is a chance that some really crazy stuff could happen. Almost anything really, ALMOST.

I would posit if the Multiworld Theorem is accurate, that it is inevitable that all worldlines will eventually cross if one worldline is capable of it... as the function would propogate across the multiverse.

Cool, now see if you can find a thread to discuss that on. This one, again, is about John Titor who explained how his time travel works and his explanation cancels out his story. I know you are really attatched to MWT and are exploding to discuss it. Start a thread.

Originally posted by InfaRedMan
But hey, I guess in some alternate time line, someone has achieved just that huh!

Must be going around. I guess they win. His fans finally figured out the key to time travel. Misread, misquote, and misconstrue everything until the other person feels like they must be in an alternate universe. I am starting to think it is your ability to have a rational thought that makes you susceptible to it though as it has only inflicted a select few of us on this thread so far.

reply to post by Luciferdescending

Originally posted by Luciferdescending

Tell me something. You are the third Titorfan to claim I have said something very different from anything I have actually said. Is there a conclusion to draw between belief in Titor's story and complete lack of reading comprehension skills? I do not mean that as a personal insult but three believers have now stated that I am saying things I have never said. Can you quote me? It is ok, the other guys couldn't quote me saying what they claimed either. Either you are all the same guy, all have a problem understanding what you read or...just make up things in your head to justify the crazy things that you say.

Originally posted by Luciferdescending
That cancels out the logic of his story that tells us that each and every arrival creates a new world line. If the simple fact of making the trip at all is going to create a new worldline for you to traverse, there is no return trip no matter how tightly you tie that rope.

That's where you said it."A new worldline". No mention of multiples.
And then you said it again, to reinforce the point I suppose.

Originally posted by Luciferdescending

The problem starts with you somehow reading "ONE" new worldline. I clearly stated that each trip creates a new worldline. Do you not understand the implications of that? Titor will always be traveling in what is to him a straight line that runs parallel to the time that he just 'arrived' in. Please feel free to explain how these lines could ever criss cross. That should be entertaining.

He would be travelling in the line he just 'arrived' in, not parallel to it. If he was parallel to it, he would be in a different line.

Criss cross? Obviously, they would connect at the point where a new world line splits off.

Originally posted by Luciferdescending

Good thing you are fireproof because I have trouble being nice to people that so clearly miscontstrue the actual things I type out so they can even be referred back to.

Thanks for the fire. My cigarette lighter had burnt out.

Originally posted by Luciferdescending

Where did all these Titors come from again? How did we get to a point where there are many Titors and we can gamble on a chance that one or two might make it back? You will have to expand on that for me to get what you are trying to say.

Many worldlines would imply the existence of many Titors, one for each of the lines in which he was born, or in which he existed before it 'diverged' from another worldline, assuming he had not met his demise in that particular line.

Originally posted by Luciferdescending

That in itself ignores the fact that the slightly different world with the slightly different scientist would not even exist if John never made the trip anyway.

Ahh, I see now. You're trying to inject the paradox from single world line theory into the many worlds theory. I think it may be not that we misunderstand what you are saying, but rather that you misunderstand what you are saying.

I have other severe issues with the Titor story, but travelling along worldlines is not one of them. I don't subscribe to the many-worlds theory, but I am willing to admit the possibility. If "many worlds" is the case, well, I climbed enough trees as a kid to know that if you get out on one branch, you can always back-track to the point of divergence and go along another.

nenothtu out

Originally posted by nenothtu
That's where you said it."A new worldline". No mention of multiples.
And then you said it again, to reinforce the point I suppose.

You are just messing with me right? Please tell me that you do not really mean to ask that question. I will humor you. With EACH trip, a new worldline is created. What are you missing here? Do you think that one JT making one trip through time should create more than one alternate timeline? Even if you do, that is not what JT said so it does not matter what you want it to be. Please try reading what you are replying to for a change.

He would be travelling in the line he just 'arrived' in, not parallel to it. If he was parallel to it, he would be in a different line.

Is English not your first language either? There is no parallel line to be on until he makes the trip. There is no branch until he arrives at his destination. That is the way he explains it. If you do not like how JT's time travel works, I suggest you take it up with him.

Criss cross? Obviously, they would connect at the point where a new world line splits off.

Please look up "criss cross" and then look up "branch."

Thanks for the fire. My cigarette lighter had burnt out.

No problem, just keep misquoting me and I will continue to light it for you.

Many worldlines would imply the existence of many Titors, one for each of the lines in which he was born, or in which he existed before it 'diverged' from another worldline, assuming he had not met his demise in that particular line.

Yeah but that is not actually what you said. I knew what you meant but you did not put it that way at all. I did address this already though for someone else but that would mean you would have to read my posts instead of just blindly responding to them.

Ahh, I see now. You're trying to inject the paradox from single world line theory into the many worlds theory. I think it may be not that we misunderstand what you are saying, but rather that you misunderstand what you are saying.

Not at all. I say things and you Titorites get it all wrong so when you do not speak clearly, I take what you say literally. I am hoping it will get you all to learn how English should work. The same paradox exists in MWT. If there were 100 worlds with 100 JTs all going back in time, according to his laws, they would all be making a new branch that did not exist with each trip. Continuously creating new worldlines with each time traveling adventure, all 100 Titors would create 100 new worldlines where a new set of those scientists exist. It would be nice to think one of those Titors could pop back into old Titor's worldline with the computer they wanted but then what would prevent all of them from going back to that one worldline according to your logic? It is fun to pretend but a I have stated, Titor gave us the rules to play with. Stop trying to make new ones.

I have other severe issues with the Titor story, but travelling along worldlines is not one of them. I don't subscribe to the many-worlds theory, but I am willing to admit the possibility. If "many worlds" is the case, well, I climbed enough trees as a kid to know that if you get out on one branch, you can always back-track to the point of divergence and go along another.

nenothtu out

So somehow time travel is as easy as navigating the many existing branches of a tree? You need to get that to market ASAP. Apparently this is the simple answer we have all been waiting for. Unless you go by Titor's rules and everytime you move off your branch, you create a new branch no matter what you do so there is no way to back track, EVER.

Please, Titorites, stop just trying to make up ways that his story could be true if it were different. It is what it is and that is a lie to sell books. Ask his 'lawyer' next time he is on the radio.

reply to post by Luciferdescending


I think you need to watch this.



and part two.




This is an informative and simple explanation of String Theory, and touches on MWT. String Theory is the most prominent field in current Theoretical Physics.

Paradox does not exist in MWT.




[edit on 23-1-2009 by TheColdDragon]