John Titor said "The Next President tries to be the next Lincoln" Is there any doubt Civil War is

john titor's ip was tracked to a teenage boy. he knew about the ibm computer from his dad... pity he was wrong about the need for it as modern day computers can do the same type of emulation and the unix date bug isnt that hard to fix... he got the physics probably from his mother. none of his predictions came true and only a couple of his assumtions (like iraq) were based in common sense.

Originally posted by kdial1

People that truly believe in John also believe in the many-worlds interpretation. Being that John delayed/distorted our worldline by predicting these events. But believing they are inevitable.

The skeptics on the other hand believe in the single world line. That events are planned out according to that single world line and if predictions are not spot on...well you know how that goes the [HOAX] goes up.

-Kdial1

More logic;

If the many worlds interpretation is true, then we can hold none of John Titors predictions to be predictive of anything in our world line. (Because he could be altering it simply by being here) So, by the many worlds interpretation, John Titor is utterly useless as a forecaster of our future, and the only thing that remains to debate about him is the claim that he came from "a" future, that is not ours any longer. And, the fact that the many worlds interpretation makes him useless as a predictor of our future also makes it virtually impossible to prove that he is, indeed, from any future.

Mind you I am not arguing with your logic, just drawing a conclusion from it.

reply to post by Where2Hide2006


JOHN TITOR was a hoax put together by some college students. Not unlike "Mother Shipton" - who was a made up character by a writer for a local paper in England, this Titor thing has legs.

reply to post by optyk phyba


I know of no such thing having occurred, so I call bunk until you demonstrate.

I am trusting you probably aren't aware of the private Emails Titor sent to a few people like Pamela and another person who frequented the Board that all of this took place on?

Anyway...

About Obama trying to be "the next Lincoln".

On January 10, he and his family visited the Lincoln Memorial in Washington, D.C.

Obama will also be the first president to use the Lincoln Bible for his inauguration since Lincoln used it in 1861. Inauguration organizers have said Obama's inaugural theme, "A New Birth of Freedom," was inspired by Lincoln's Gettysburg Address.

The president-elect will travel on a whistlestop-like train trip Saturday from Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, to Washington. The tour follows the final leg of the train route taken by Lincoln.

And throughout the 2008 presidential campaign, Obama -- a Democrat who hails from the Land of Lincoln -- reminded audiences from coast to coast about the similarities between himself and the beloved political leader.

Obama follows Lincoln's footsteps

I don't even know who John Titor is to be honest, but besides being out a few years, I'd say he's nailed this one. The man has only been President for 1 day so far.

And to rule out a civil war in the US over the next couple of years is just plain silly.

I can't believe people are debating the credibility of this John Titor guy, to the point of totally ignoring his prediction, when (besides a few years error) it seems HE WAS RIGHT!

[edit on 21/1/09 by NuclearPaul]

The most interesting response to any mention of John Titor, would be the people who are intent on casting strong doubt upon all of the information, and shutting down any possible conversation.

Personally I'm on the fence, where it's been comfortable in regards to all of his predictions, but I cannot deny that some of them are very interesting. The inaccuracies aren't really proof of anything...just yet. I have often wondered if John Titor was someone who either had clairvoyant ability or simply someone....in the know. And if you are in the know, you would not want to present information completely accurate, but dodgey, if you understand my meaning.

As far as the "inaccuracy" about Iraq, I can say with 100% certainty that back when Titor made his predictions, I would have never thought we'd invade Iraq. Even Bush Sr. wouldn't touch that one, knowing what a disaster it would become.

There are still too many pieces of information given by Titor for me to completely disregard it. I enjoy denying ignorance, and at the same time I enjoy entertaining the notion of something impossible, being possible. Only time will tell.

Paul, I agree, as even Nostradamus' prophecies, were not all accurate. It has been hit or miss. Some people take his predictions, and mold them to fit modern day events.

Originally posted by roadgravel
If this time travel and divergence is true then there is the possibility that none of his dire predictions will come true. We could be on a line where any disasters, natural or man made, will be different than his predictions.

In which case why in the world would anyone ever invest time, energy, and money into sending someone into the past to get something he can never return with since each arrival creates a new divergence. The story falls apart on itself so there is no reason to even think about one word "Titor" ever said.

I choose to plan, if possible, by watching what mankind is doing and thinking instead of preparing for some man's predictions.

That makes a lot more sense to me. I do not understand why anyone cares what he said when his biggest defenders are usually explaining why he was wrong and it is ok that he was wrong. OK then, so what good are any of his predictions, thoughts, words. I agree that we would all be much better off actually observing the world around us instead of worrying about the words of some anonymous internet poster that was never able to reconcile his facts with his narrative.

Originally posted by optyk phyba
john titor's ip was tracked to a teenage boy. he knew about the ibm computer from his dad... pity he was wrong about the need for it as modern day computers can do the same type of emulation and the unix date bug isnt that hard to fix... he got the physics probably from his mother. none of his predictions came true and only a couple of his assumtions (like iraq) were based in common sense.

Would you happen to have a link to this information? Thanks!

Luciferdescending that was basically the same message jt gave. the people of 2000 and many living in the here and now focus so much on power and greed and don't focus on the people suffering all around them. jt didn't come here to make predictions, a__holes in message forums flamed him into corners until he explained what happened to him on his timeline. I've noticed similarities in what he said happened in his history and whats be going on in the last decade. does this mean he was a time traveler? no maybe he got lucky that happens to.

Originally posted by Asherah



Would you happen to have a link to this information? Thanks!

I doubt he does. One of the most interesting things about this phenomena to me has been the amount of pseudo-skeptics coming out of the wood works willing to sacrifice their honesty to make counter claims of proof that this thing is a hoax but to date no diffenitive data has come forth to prove it. Nor has anyone sung the secert song yet and Pam is still active at TTI.

[edit on 21-1-2009 by titorite]

Originally posted by titorite
I doubt he does. One of the most interesting things about this phenomena to me has been the amount of pseudo-skeptics coming out of the wood works willing to sacrifice their honesty to make counter claims of proof that this thing is a hoax but to date no diffenitive data has come forth to prove it. Nor has anyone sung the secert song yet and Pam is still active at TTI.

Which also means that so far there has been no proof that any of it is true. In fact, there is a mountain of evidence to say it is not compared to what evidence to say it is true? The predictions? No. The "Alas Babylon" description of the future? Not yet but at least he stole from an interesting source. His photos? His logic? Well...see my above post for that. We can go on like this. There is nothing to say that he is honest or real. So far, nothing has come out that would even hint that the man was real in any fashion. All we get from his fans are excuses for why his predictions do not come true or why his common sense predictions are still at least 5 years off and still not all that correct. Where is the evidence that makes Titor's story worth believing? Logic dictates that it is not. Nothing dictates that it is. Sorry but the dude was a story teller and that is all.

Originally posted by some_stupid_name
Luciferdescending that was basically the same message jt gave. the people of 2000 and many living in the here and now focus so much on power and greed and don't focus on the people suffering all around them. jt didn't come here to make predictions, a__holes in message forums flamed him into corners until he explained what happened to him on his timeline. I've noticed similarities in what he said happened in his history and whats be going on in the last decade. does this mean he was a time traveler? no maybe he got lucky that happens to.

The difference is that I am not selling a book to say it. I do not have lawyers calling radio shows with the saddest two-man act ever played out on broadcast. I am not the one trying to hawk my story for up to $900 US dollars on Amazon.com. If JT was so worried about his fellow man, why did he even bother to make up the time travel story and then go into hiding while he sold it over and over and over again. He even has his loyal followers promote him on places like ATS. You can spot them because they talk in thick circles once you confront them with the logical fallacy that is his story. Then you have the sad fans that want to believe so badly that they just make up stuff to make the story fit the truth. They add in details and whole stories that never came from JT or any of his representatives just to try to justify why so much of his junk is bunk. It is nice to be all worried about the common fellow but I would love to see what charity the profits to his books have all gone to.

Ok I've followed this over the years, a lot of it does make sense, the timeline differences John Titor explained them pretty well as far as I am concerned, the creation of another universe for every action we take, sounds extremely unlikely, but only if your stuck fast to the explanations of the rules of Physics.

Yet every single day it is shown to us we know just a fraction about these rules, and indeed a lot of the rules, are shown to be not incorrect but underestimated?

The laws regarding Physics are only really guesses, only as time goes on and we experiment more, do we realise there is more than meets the eye, and we don't really understand a lot of the rules of the Universe.

For anyone including myself to sit here and type that it is impossible, is IMO a little selfish, especially when you take into account, not everyone is willing to allow their ego to be given a good kicking, because we refuse to accept the fact a lot of our statements, are only what we have read in books by others, how do we know they are right for sure?

After all, everything contained in any book, is just one persons opinion or interpretation of the facts, it's only when new idea's are forced into the light, that the rules change with new discoveries.

So if we take for granted what we read or are told as the solid facts, with no room for advancement or manoeuvrability, then it all becomes stagnant and we advance no further, until these new idea's come out, arguing the toss based on other peoples theories, is not giving ourselves the respect we deserve as supposedly single individual intelligent people a lot of us profess to be, yet all the time we see holes in these statements from different members, so who is right?

For instance, who is the woman proclaiming to be Titors Mother? why did she say he did stay with them as an older man? why did she write a book about the subject? how did she write a book about it? who was the man staying with them? was he really from the future, or did he simply choose a family with a small child, and build his story from there?

It's obvious from this whole thread, that nobody knows, because everyones theory is different, some believers, some non believers, but all the reasons for their opinions are different so who is wrong and is anybody right?

He got a lot right if you ignore the timeline differences, his explanations as to why this happens makes sense to me because it bypasses the paradox associated with time travel which makes people think it is not possible, but under John Titors laws it was very possible.

So be honest with yourselves as well as the rest of us, it takes a bigger person to admit, you just don't know, rather than it's not possible because Einstein said it, Einstein was an idiot if you really wish to know the man, thats how some would describe him anyhow, he had an understanding most didn't, but that does not mean he was right about all his theories, in fact he has been proven wrong on more than one occasion, and the reason we are unsure about the rest is because we are incapable right now in the evolution of understanding to prove one way or the other, we just don't know, we do not understand.

that is because we allow our ideas to be swallowed up by accepting other peoples theories as "must be right" even in schools we are only taught to the capability of the teacher, it is our job, and our responsibility to ourselves to push beyond what we are taught, otherwise we lie to ourselves, and try and convince everyone else what we think is gospel.

It's alright thinking outside the box, but do we all have the same box? if we put them together, perhaps we would learn more a lot faster.

I am not against opinions, just against opinions being thought of as the one and only rule.

we need to be honest to ourselves, are we certain we are right ? before we try and convince others with it.

Anyone got a problem with that?

Originally posted by azzllin


For anyone including myself to sit here and type that it is impossible, is IMO a little selfish, especially when you take into account, not everyone is willing to allow their ego to be given a good kicking, because we refuse to accept the fact a lot of our statements, are only what we have read in books by others, how do we know they are right for sure?

You are forgetting something. Jon offered up as part of his 'proof' the explanation behind it all. He told us how it works. He told us why he went. Now, are you suggesting that we credit him with honesty about being from the future but only after we disregard his explanation for how it all happened? Maybe it is just me but I really think that if we are going to give any of his story any credit at all, it is all or none.

reply to post by Luciferdescending



Dude, your on a stomping spree. I don't think the referenced poster was saying anything of the sort.

Look if you don't believe the story why are you here other than to dump on those that Believe John Titor was being honest...

I don't think this negative bashing banter gets anyone anywhere...

Originally posted by Where2Hide2006
However, Titor has more hits than any other self proclaimed profit that i have ever heard of.

My theory with the olympics is that as part of Titors cryptic writing he scewed the dates of events by 4 years. That is why there was an olympics in 2008 and why he says the president in 2005 tries to be like Lincoln and why the civil war is coming next year.

So if he's off 4 yrs on the olympics, the "mistakenly calculated" last Olympics has already happend? No 2010 In Vancouver? What will you say then?

For a TIME traveller, one would think he'd have to have all the dates and TIMES set to precision.

Can you please list his "Hits" that came true?

I'll agree Obama seems a tad obsessed with Lincoln.

Luciferdescending i wont sit here and tell you that that jt was a time traveler, is a time traveler or even the boogie man for that matter. he was right about hawking radiation he did know a nifty little trick with the computer, and time travel to the past just might be possible with a rotating black hole.one scientist thought he could do it with light but that design didn't allow you to go back before the apparatus is turned on. as for the multiverse well if it isn't, then you tell me how one particle can occupy to separate areas of space simultaneously. maybe it was hawking himself pulling are chains. we didn't have a y2k but we did have 911. were not at civil war but it wouldn't take much to get us there, even if we were at civil war right now i still couldn't say that jt was a time traveler i wasn't there i didn't witness it and neither did you, so don't come in here screaming hoax on something you will never be able to prove as hoax. i don't own the book his family put out. george noore hunted the lawyer down for a statement not the other way around. the book is in the used section of amazon for sale by ordinary people trying to make a buck off a limited print book. you see supply and demand dictate a price high supply+low demand = cheap price where as hard to find+high demand= high price this is called capitalism i don't know if your familiar with this, it is the world wide web, you might be from some country that works differantly.

reply to post by Where2Hide2006


THANK GOD SOMEONE REMEMBERS TITOR'S STORY!

Physics: titor knew a lot about quantum theory, and the key to time travel: manipulation of (micro)gravity via a (micro)singularity.

Even if he was a hoaxster, 1 tenet stands true in any discussion about time travel: Its a quantum probababilistic view of future events, Graham-wheeler-everett theory like.

Therefore, I agree that Titor's predictions have been off, some WAY OFF, but
the insightful may notice a pattern. It could have been off by 4 years.

2004 olympics ->2008 olympics "almost" called off due to earthquake.

2005 civil war -> 2009 civil war to come? The US/UK banking systems , just today, are being called completely insolvent to the tune of 1.8 trillion each. What happens when no one has any $ except a few uber wealthy?

2005 president "next lincoln" may well translate to 2009; Titor is using the year of the inauguration after all, seems to know something. Obama used a Lincoln era bible for the swearing in.

2009 "he/she" as the next president has always intrigued me. I took it literally to mean Hillary - last year. No she may wind up president in 2013...hmmmm......

I'm just glad that if - IF - these quantum prediction points in the future (war, war, more war) have to happen, at least they are delayed another 4 years.

April 12, 2015 -> April 12, 2019. Better later than sooner!

Another point well worth remembering - Titor was shocked that Y2K had not happened catastrophically here, like it did 'there' on his timeline. We can only hope our worldline therefore may be a less severe version of his.

[edit on 1/21/2009 by drphilxr]

reply to post by Asherah


that teenage boy may have been a friend of the family's or someone in the household. titor was no dummy in posts, noting our penchance for buggery to our fellow man - he was scared of us and hid his location , etc.

as we all know - titor is not his real name. pamela on time travelors institute has some insight into this. you can still find her there (i did!)....