The Dancing Rocks of Death Valley - Photo's

I didn't see anything about the rotation of the Earth being the cause. Does anybody know what direction the rocks move in? Those shown seem to move more or less in the same direction. Maybe the Moon is involved or other planetary alignments? Hell, the Moon creates the tides, right?

Anyway, it is good to have mysteries. I hope they never really find the reason, but they will. Somebody will get a grant and camp out there for their Ph.D

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[edit on 20-1-2009 by Timothy Leary]

They do not "dance" or walk... That region is known for extreme winds, and at times violent weather. These rocks move very slowly, the change of direction in the tracks would also indicate a change in wind direction. Ice does form, rain does occasionally fall. the surface hardens and the wind blows. Perhaps it has taken months or years for some of these rocks to move only inches.

IMO, there is no mystery there, it is fascinating.

reply to post by nataylor


I believe strongly that the water theory goes down the drain (pun intended ) when you see the lines formed by the rocks.

If a rock leaves a trail because of the force of water pushing on it, then why doesn't the water wash away the trail too? Is the mud stronger than the rock?

reply to post by DJMessiah


The rocks sit on a slick mud surface. The ice is on TOP of the water. When the ice and wind push the rock, they are ABOVE the mud. Just like when you drag an anchor across the bottom of the ocean. Did you even look at the video?

reply to post by Terapin


The video doesn't show the process, only explains what they believe to cause it to occur.

Originally posted by Terapin
The rocks sit on a slick mud surface. The ice is on TOP of the water. When the ice and wind push the rock, they are ABOVE the mud.

The surface can be slick, but the rock still leaves a deep trail in the mud. Why doesn't the water underneath the ice wash away the trail?

Just like when you drag an anchor across the bottom of the ocean. Did you even look at the video?

When I drag an anchor across the ocean floor, the current washes away the trail, does it not?

[edit on Tue Jan 20th 2009 by DJMessiah]

The flowing water (shown in the video) simply turns the surface very slick. Wind pushes the rocks when the coefficient of friction of the surface becomes low enough. It's a simple process.

It's not magnetism--the rocks aren't magnetic. It's not some weird force of gravity due to the moon or planets--any such force would be very weak and relatively linear, and it'd happen all over the world. It has nothing to do with earthquakes--the area is relatively stable and the force required to move the rocks would result in mass movements of stones over a short time and be easily observed.

It's simple a matter of wind and water.

Originally posted by DJMessiah
The surface can be slick, but the rock still leaves a deep trail in the mud. Why doesn't the water underneath the ice wash away the trail?

The area gets flooded all the time from snow melt in the mountains, as shown in the video. But the flow is so gradual and shallow, it doesn't wash away the existing tracks that can last for years.

We are talking about a few inches of water at the most, not flowing currents like a river.

Tracks left by the dragged rocks would not be erased as there is no current to wash them away. Look at the video. It is more like a puddle than a lake. Death Valley is very dry and the water that collects there occasionally, is shallow and brief in its nature. In this case, the tracks can last a long time as there is no hard rain, no current, and no depth to the water.

I was in Death Valley in October '08, and it is an amazing place. There are a number of wonders there like the roadrunners who can survive, and even thrive, in such a harsh, hot, and dry environment. The interesting weathering movement of the rocks is just another part of the National Parks majesty. It holds the record temperature of 134ºF, with a recorded ground temp of an astounding 201º F, just a few degrees shy of the boiling point of water. It also often becomes freezing cold at night. Its elevation ranges from 282 feet below sea level to more than 11,000 above. It is the largest National Park with about 3.4 million acres. If you see the area for yourself, the interesting movement of the rocks will still be amazing, but it will become clear, that it is no mystery. The forces of nature at work in an unusual environment.

reply to post by Terapin


I agree I was firstly as stated convinced it was gravity, or also the water theory with the wind.

But if you look at the first page of this thread I don't think it makes sense to say the Rock with the researchers leg placed on was moved by a slightly slippery mud some wind.

Unless there are huge amount of winds and parachutes attached, the nature of this movement though being pushed by the wind and along the mud, would with gravity make them push mud infront of them into a sort of barrier or dam, and even sink further down into the mud, not stay on the horizontal level they seem to.

Kind Regards,

Elf.

reply to post by MischeviousElf


Just like the old saying, 'You learn something new everyday", had it not been for your thread and research put into this topic, I would have never even known this existed!

You did a GREAT job with your outline and information. Thanks!

You see I dont buy it This Baby:



Is not pushed by wind on ice. It would for a start not leave a trail, how can trails be left? if they are on the top of the ice?

if it is the wet mud and you pushed a several hundred pound rock across wet mud, gravity would embed it down and into the mud more.

Even if its the ice this would not be moved by wind.

Ice freezes around things and holds them in place, if water was under the rock and ice all around it, and the water under the rock which would have to be below, the rest of the general ice surface on the Playa as the weight, it must be mud before ice, the rock would sink in the mud, so it would be fixed in place even more, as the water in the mud froze, as ice is expansion from water too much pressure from all around would make it more secure in its hold.

What works for the small rocks does not make sense for these one,s especially when they go UP a gradient.

Kind regards,

Elf

[edit on 31-1-2009 by MischeviousElf]

Well at last the mystery may be solved, and it has nothing to do with water at all Though this is not conclusive yet much new research done by the people I credit on the opening OP has found some interesting results, and may in turn answer some questions about things seen on Mars to, and seen by many especially in the alternative community as evidence of "tracks" caused by machines etc.

I thought the ice theory was a bit lame as the big one would sink or get encassed in ice....here on earth this OP


It appears this area being unique almost in the world for being so flat, (the lake bed) and also as a Valley to creates huge amounts of wind velocities at the surface of the lake:

Figuring out how the rocks dance may seem silly, but it's helped researchers understand a type of air pollution that threatens some populated areas of Southern California. Dr. Thomas Cahill, a physicist and atmospheric scientist at the University of California, Davis, calculated that the velocity of the winds moving the rocks at Racetrack Playa has to be around 100 mph. Messina and Clarke's work confirms that finding.

Cahill used that knowledge to measure wind velocities at the surface of Owens Lake (since Racetrack Playa is a designated wilderness area, measuring devices cannot be left on the lake bed). It was an effort that up until that time was considered folly because the popular theory was that steady high winds never hug the ground except in tornadoes or hurricanes. In fact, Cahill measured 95 mph winds just a few centimeters above the surface.

Wow 95 mph just off the surface of the lake...

"People don't believe it," he says, "especially in Europe and the East, but I've watched railroad ties be picked up and driven through sand dunes. We've measured the highest wind shears ever recorded."

Berkely.Edu Multimedia Updated Dancing Rocks

So it seems that it may at last been proven by showing similar results from the other area and showing them at work on the Playa.

Water and Ice lol, so sure so many were.

Anyhow this opens up the following to, as pointed out in mike Singhs excellent Thread Mysteries of The Moon and Mars Where you can see photo's of similar tracks on Mars

Many strange objects, and formations are apparent, I am open minded on many of these, however after this new research I don't think the UFO/Alternative community can use "tracks" as evidence of life elsewhere, we know on many planets like mars the winds are much more powerful than on the earth, therefore we could expect to see this phenomina on many planets with flat dry, dusty and windy environments.

However this is encouraging to solve this mystery I am still not 100% sure only 99.9% as as observed in the Playa situation, not all of the rocks move, if the wind is that localised why do 2 so close get acted on differantly, and after moving some of the huge distances as measured they would (the one being acted on) not then be in the location of such localised effects. It does seem some of the rocks have been moving regularly for many years, and that to me is still a mystery when others do not at all.

It probably then could be taken that maybe the ones that do move have a "Bottom" contour, shape or friction property within certain parameters that allows the energy of the wind to overcome the gravity and friction/grip of the rock based on its weight.

Kind regards,

Elf.

It's been explained.

reply to post by h1satsu


It certainly has,

But not probably as you are alluding to

If you look at my post immediately above yours, new research has almost conclusively proven it is wind shear just of the ground, infact the highest wind shear forces ever recorded on earth.

No Ice

No water

As my Above link points to Berkeley edu slideshow for an amazing Multimedia presentation on the rocks, history, research, stats and the new collaborative research and results.

Kind Regards,

Elf

An article has pointed out that in fact the physics of the wind sheer mught not actually explain the movements due to the wind needed wo be hundreds of miles an hour:

Moreover, the physics calculations do not fully support this theory as wind speeds of hundreds of miles per hour would be needed to move some of the stones.

Source

Explained but not fully still.

Kind Regards,

Elf

Remember the experiment where light waves go through a gate but when observed there is a different conclusion, it would be interesting if the same result came about in the new research of these rocks.

reply to post by dan steely


Wow that is to be honest the most far out explanation.

That the rocks are so extremely remote and very rarely veiwed observed at all,

So when they are observed they have moved their quantum position before manifesting....

Far out lol

However it wouldnt explain the tracks in the Mud...

A very interesting contribution though, and really really got me thinking as to where these rocks are located so remote and barren!

So how often they are actually observed at all by ANY living (mammal bird insect not microbe etc) consciousness... and all that this line of thought promted by you, could lead to philosophically.

You might find the following interesting and refreshes your memory enjoy look for more on the same name I am sure you will like it:

Google Video Link

Kind Regards,

Elf

[edit on 23-9-2009 by MischeviousElf]

reply to post by MischeviousElf


Thank you.

I've found moving rocks on a lake bed in oregon. They are supposedly only found in Death Valley, not true....I have photos but wont post them, as I would have to search a bit to find them. If anyone cares I will do it. I contacted Paula Massina who is spose to be an expert on this, and she didnt seem to care........geosun.sjsu.edu...