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Has Mankind been Duped into Rejecting The only Redeemer?

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posted on Jan, 20 2009 @ 02:27 PM
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reply to post by John Matrix
 


I know i am forgivin for my sins... but my understanding doesnt involve a magical god.. or prayer.

understand that we are the same and it is only our persepctives in reality that has separated us. You life, your choices, and actions are justified through the path you have been on. How could i ever hold somthing against you... i know you. You have to simply understand why you are already forgivin.

Love comes from understanding. Not from a book telling you to get on your knees and beg.




posted on Jan, 20 2009 @ 02:39 PM
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reply to post by slicobacon
 


Yes it is the Bible thumping fundamentalist Christians than actually hurt more than they help. If I had not been a Christian at an early age I never would have came to believe in God with listening to the fundamentalist. The ydo not look at the entire meaning of the scriptures. They Pick out the bits and pieces that prove there point often time cutting verses in half.

I am glad that I started to study for myself and see the hypocricies in main stream religion. For a group of people that has scriptures that tell them they are not to judge anyone they are some of the most judgemental people on earth.



posted on Jan, 20 2009 @ 02:42 PM
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Originally posted by Wertdagf
reply to post by John Matrix
 


I know i am forgivin for my sins... but my understanding doesnt involve a magical god.. or prayer.

understand that we are the same and it is only our persepctives in reality that has separated us. You life, your choices, and actions are justified through the path you have been on. How could i ever hold somthing against you... i know you. You have to simply understand why you are already forgivin.

Love comes from understanding. Not from a book telling you to get on your knees and beg.


Amen to that! And, you are back!!!....and in 20 minutes I have to leave for an hour or two..



posted on Jan, 20 2009 @ 02:43 PM
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I may be late in saying this but there are many examples of animals in nature "improving" their surroundings.

Birds build nests. Some compete for nest sites, proving they have the ability to make preferences.

Your own example, beavers, alter the flow of rivers to suit their own purposes.

Elephants in some places have dug extensive caves to find and eat salt deposits.

Many kinds of insects, like ants, termits, wasps, and bees, will built their own "houses."

Granted that is not as extensive as what we humans have done but it shows that we are not alone in wanting to make our "improvements."

I think our problem is that we see ourselves as separate from nature, rather than a part of it, and disassociate the things we do to our world from the effects that it will have on us.

And, since we currently can't actually communicate with animals, I don't think we can rule ott the possibility that they actually do feel that they are "missing something," but don't have a way to communicate that to us.



posted on Jan, 20 2009 @ 02:46 PM
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reply to post by John Matrix
 


hello John:

No, mankind has not been duped, although there are some who are still in the darkness and can not see the light.

We all are created in the image of God. Man is in the divine image, not merelly in one aspect, but in a complex of characteristics of his nature. Certainly he is not in the divine image as to his physical being, for God is a purely spiritual being. God is a spirit, and man's soul is a spirit.

It is my belief that the Creator put a spark in the heart of his creation. Some on us feel that spark and begin to search for the reason we feel this need to find God. As we begin our search and in the darkness we see the light shine a path. As we go down that path we find what our heart has been searching for, we find God, our Creator. Then our spark becomes a burning flame that needs to know more and grow in the spirit of our Lord. Through communion with the Father and the help of the Holy Spirit we learn that we are loved so much that God's only begotten Son died for us to have salvation and atonement for our sins. Now, we learn about the Christ and the communion gets sweeter and more personal. We begin to ask for spiritual eyes to see and wisdom and knowledge. As the Lord gives us wisdom and knowledge we seek enlightenment to become one with the Father. It is truly a beautiful process and a spiritual journey that is personal to everyone who goes down that path.

Sadly, not everyone will heed the spark in their heart. After a while I believe that maybe at some point they may no longer feel it tugging at them to find their Creator.

We as Christians, believers, followers of Christ, all should be dripping in the Love of the Lord so all who see us can say, "That person truly knows God." More than ever we need to have our light shine brighter and true so all will be able to find the way home.

Peae to you,
Grandma


PS Very good thread!



posted on Jan, 20 2009 @ 02:48 PM
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Originally posted by Ant4AU
reply to post by slicobacon
 


Yes it is the Bible thumping fundamentalist Christians than actually hurt more than they help. If I had not been a Christian at an early age I never would have came to believe in God with listening to the fundamentalist. The ydo not look at the entire meaning of the scriptures. They Pick out the bits and pieces that prove there point often time cutting verses in half.

I am glad that I started to study for myself and see the hypocricies in main stream religion. For a group of people that has scriptures that tell them they are not to judge anyone they are some of the most judgemental people on earth.


Yes, if rote scripture learning produces a machinegun charlie that is so paranoid that all they see is enemies around them, then guess what?....what they think is what they create!!

So, if it does not help a person to love their neighbor as themselves, then what Good is professing to love God? If you love God, you will love your neighbor as yourself, and in that there is no sin.



posted on Jan, 20 2009 @ 02:49 PM
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Originally posted by John Matrix

Originally posted by xapata
Before you can wake people up, you first must be awake.


You have presented some good insight.
Do you know that I sleep, or that I am awake?


I fully respect what you are attempting to do. Still the moment you mention that you want to awaken others, it implies in my opinion a tiny bit of ego. Some "I". Now, I do not say this as a criticism but more as an observation. If your words were truly full of Light, you would have no need to have a desire to awaken others. The words would flow through you and not from you, and those words would have more power since they would spring from an enlightened state free of "I".



posted on Jan, 20 2009 @ 02:55 PM
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reply to post by xapata
 


If you truly understood the suffering of others you would help other people. Like a man who can smell cleans his house of stinky things, those who know would wipe every tear from your eye.

Thinking that no one can ever use the term I is ignorant.



posted on Jan, 20 2009 @ 02:58 PM
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Originally posted by Grandma
reply to post by John Matrix
 


hello John:

It is my belief that the Creator put a spark in the heart of his creation. Some on us feel that spark and begin to search for the reason we feel this need to find God. As we begin our search and in the darkness we see the light shine a path. As we go down that path we find what our heart has been searching for, we find God, our Creator. Then our spark becomes a burning flame that needs to know more and grow in the spirit of our Lord. Through communion with the Father and the help of the Holy Spirit we learn that we are loved so much that God's only begotten Son died for us to have salvation and atonement for our sins. Now, we learn about the Christ and the communion gets sweeter and more personal. We begin to ask for spiritual eyes to see and wisdom and knowledge. As the Lord gives us wisdom and knowledge we seek enlightenment to become one with the Father. It is truly a beautiful process and a spiritual journey that is personal to everyone who goes down that path.

Peae to you,
Grandma


PS Very good thread!


Yes, A spark of the Divine Nature, an eternal flame, eternal spark, the word sown in the heart, a seed sown in the heart, the light that lights everyone that comes into this world; all mean one and the same thing. From the fall of mankind, something of the origninal Spirit still remains in the depths of the Soul crying out to once again be at oneness with it's creator.



posted on Jan, 20 2009 @ 03:00 PM
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reply to post by speaknoevil07
 


I could not have said it any better.
Time is short...everyone knows it. Few care to find the truth and fewer still to follow the truth.



posted on Jan, 20 2009 @ 03:08 PM
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I haven't read the whole of the thread, but just had to ask...

Has humankind been duped into thinking the individuals are "bad" and need redeeming?

That would be my view.



posted on Jan, 20 2009 @ 03:10 PM
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Originally posted by xapata
I fully respect what you are attempting to do. Still the moment you mention that you want to awaken others, it implies in my opinion a tiny bit of ego. Some "I". Now, I do not say this as a criticism but more as an observation. If your words were truly full of Light, you would have no need to have a desire to awaken others. The words would flow through you and not from you, and those words would have more power since they would spring from an enlightened state free of "I".


Ego seeks to exalt one's self, because it is built on false pride.
I have no desire for doing such.

I cannot prove this to you, and you cannot prove your accusation against me.

To entertain this contest further would be fruitless.



posted on Jan, 20 2009 @ 03:38 PM
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Originally posted by Amaterasu
I haven't read the whole of the thread, but just had to ask...

Has humankind been duped into thinking the individuals are "bad" and need redeeming?

That would be my view.


I suppose there are prisons full of people that might see that argument as having merit. I can hear them now:
"Your Honor....mankind duped me into believing that I am bad....so I did the crime.....but it's not my fault"!!

Think it will fly?



posted on Jan, 20 2009 @ 03:39 PM
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reply to post by John Matrix
 


I guess the only remaining thing to do is to promise to eachother that we will honestly seek truth for the rest of our lives. You must search outside of your little jesus bubble, Or you will never see anything beyond it.



posted on Jan, 20 2009 @ 03:40 PM
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Originally posted by Anonymous ATS
reply to post by speaknoevil07
 


I could not have said it any better.
Time is short...everyone knows it. Few care to find the truth and fewer still to follow the truth.


Glad you dropped by. I was looking for a way to invite you today, but somehow you have your U2U shut off.....which might be a good thing.


Always appreciate your witty comments.



posted on Jan, 20 2009 @ 03:44 PM
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Originally posted by Wertdagf
reply to post by John Matrix
 


I guess the only remaining thing to do is to promise to eachother that we will honestly seek truth for the rest of our lives. You must search outside of your little jesus bubble, Or you will never see anything beyond it.


Is Shamanism and Scientology helpful?



posted on Jan, 20 2009 @ 03:46 PM
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Sorry if I hit a sore spot. Was not my intention. Observation and accusation are two different things. Observations are meant to shed light and expose weakness in order to help. Happy trails.




Wise men don't need to prove their point;
men who need to prove their point aren't wise.
The Master has no possessions.
The more he does for others, the happier he is.
The more he gives to others, the wealthier he is.
The Tao nourishes by not forcing.
By not dominating, the Master leads.
Lao Tzu



posted on Jan, 20 2009 @ 03:50 PM
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reply to post by John Matrix
 


You cannot see the light without the darkness. These lost thousands are but lights unto my path. You must commit yourself to seeking truth... not seeking comfort.

I love you... Your god does not exist. No one is anwsering you prayers.



posted on Jan, 20 2009 @ 03:53 PM
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reply to post by John Matrix
 


screw jesus



posted on Jan, 20 2009 @ 04:11 PM
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Originally posted by John Matrix

Originally posted by cancerian42
Actually not all of mankind is striving to achieve a higher state. Some people feel that they are missing something, so they look outward for some solution to their "problems". Other people are just living in the moment, happy to be alive.


Cows eat grass, but don't try to grow better more tasty grass.
Beavers still make dams from branches and mud and don't look for better materials like bricks.
All animal life seems to be pre programmed to do nothing more than what they can do by their nature, and never more.

Man is always striving and seeking more. More knowledge, more wisdom, enlightenment, etc.

Doesn't this indicate that mankind is searching for something that by His very nature he knows he once had?


I'm a late viewer of this thread but I will say this. Part of our fallen state (imho) is spelled out in your reply. Humans look at the Multiverse and place their mundane labels on everything we see. Its just a rock, a leaf, a tree, a fly, a mosquito, a field mouse, a dog, a Dolphin, a Whale, a Star, a Galaxy and we fail to understand that profound nature of the existence of these miracles. Our fantasy is that we -think-a cow does not desire or feel or want or need and we chew up our world resources to serve -our-needs because it is supposed to be that way. We are the chosen etc. etc. etc.

Wrong.

We are not seperate from this world/existence and it is not ours to ruin. We pay the price everyday we when fail to understand our place in this Universe. We are fallen but we may yet stand again when intellect, instinct and spirit resolve their differences.

Sorry for the ramble, my apologies if I offend,



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