Has Mankind been Duped into Rejecting The only Redeemer?

Originally posted by LeoVirgo
reply to post by John Matrix

 

We are not in a fallen state, we are in a evolving state....and a very slow one at that.

Teachers have came and shown us, we are all ONE....we have few that can understand this yet, so they take the teacher and make them a part of their religions traditions.

The highest level is a ONENESS...to reach that ONENESS, one has to look past the idea that we are all separate. But all with good time, we will come around. All is working as planned, I believe, every thought and belief serve a purpose for our sifting.

The idea of a savior make people feel better. Its a fast fix for their fears.

LV

I see oneness with the divine as a Spiritual union that can only take place through a spiritual rebirth in us, followed by our Will being turned to the Divine Nature of God which He made manifest to us through the incarnation of Christ. It seems to me that this Divine Nature of God consists of such Spiritual elements as Humility, Meekness, Patience and Love for God.

When these Divine virtues take root in the Soul, it is through them that we are one in Spirit, for in the Divine Nature we find all that is contrary to that which we are from the Fall, which is a life of covetousness, envy, pride and wrath. So to turn to the one Supernatural Divine Nature of God, it truly turning away from all that we are from the Fall of Adam.

Just my opinion. I cannot prove it, though one can demonstrate it in their own life and experience the Power of God at work in their Soul.

Originally posted by Allred5923
["WE are the masters of our realities, not some omnipotent being."

Our decision's make our out comes and realities, there is nothing more simply accepted than "I made a mistake, and it won't happen again." thought processed scenarios, No god to bail you out there, just self acknowledgements of doing incorrect or wrong thing's.

"No God involved, just you and your actions with reactions throughout our lives."

I would not attempt to prove you wrong on all points because it cannot be done, nor can you prove that God does not exist.

However, there seems to be something missing from your cause and effect equation. What you have mentioned is also called Karma. If people are experiencing bad things happening to them, it's because they are reaping what they have sown.

However, There are indeed selfish, self exalting, arrogant, jealous, envious, proud people that love to control others and get an upper hand by whatever means they can. Often, these people attack innocent people, people with less power to defend themselves, for example: The Police officer in the Movie "Unlawful Entry"....these things really happen....people with authority over others are the most likely to cause innocent people damage. Sometimes people get treated badly for no apparent reason, and this is why those that believe in Karma are no better than the abuser of innocent people!

For years the human race strived to be one with nature and take nothing more than what is needed. These tribes/clans were always taken out by the greedy who always had better weapons, logistics ect. Just look at the Mayans. That way is long forgotten. Most of us are on the logical path never listening to our instinct. Those of us that still do are our hunters, fisherman, farmers and people that touch nature in a good way all the time. Haven't you ever met that guy that could walk into a room full of mean dogs and crying babies and everything seems to go peaceful. Those are the people that I speak of. For all of humanity to get closer to this we would have to reject almost everything we have come to know such as law, economies, armies and so on. The closest mentioning of this is a reference from the movie Zeitgeist. The Venus Project has come up with a great (but bot perfect I admit) solution to this problem only if we could drop ignorance and implement it. This post makes no reference to any particular religion. This is more to the point that mankind has been duped and sedated

reply to post by John Matrix


Come on man. You can delve into the realm of metaphysics, or you can do some actual scientific research. If you have the time read Darwin, Dawkins, Caroll, Maynard Smith, Freud... and some more advanced literature on topics such as chemistry, biology, evolutionary psychology, cosmology, physics. If you find out what you actually are you might not be so surprised. It doesn't have to be so literary. It's fine if you want to go that route, you'll learn some interesting truths about human nature but it looks like you want something more.

reply to post by Immortal_Reiku


Great post! the truth as I see it as well...

Kudos to you.

Originally posted by Ant4AU
reply to post by Wertdagf

 

Okay I am in a loop of logic where I believe I am a created being from a higher power. You are in a loop of logic where we were a freak of nature cooked up in a pool of sludge.

why can't these to "loops" be the same. the bible does not say how god created the world only that he did it. and science tells us that that the conditions that had to be in place for live to exist here are so great the odds of that happening on its own are astronamical. so what if a day in the life of god is not the same as a day in the eyes of man. what if we were created by god threw the big bang. what is we where created threw evolution. god doen't have to explain to us how he created everything. that would kind of end the debate on that subject. there are lots of people that believe this way i did not come up with it on my own.

reply to post by redwolf.of.odin


The loops can’t be the same because science wants to deny the existence of God. Science wants to prove that it was a shot in the dark that all life on earth happened by accident. The Big Bang something had to start it. In no way would time mean the same thing to man and God. God is not on a timeline God is eternity. There is no way to compare our understanding of time to eternity. A 1000 years is not even a day compared to eternity. Every time science breaks something down they can only break it down to individual ingredients. There is no proof and what caused the ingredients to combine and form as they did.

The duping that has been done is to have convinced us that we seek something higher; enlightenment etc.

There are a lot of very intelligent people in the world. Are they "enlightended"?
And then there are those who sit for hours "meditating". Putting themselves in a state of self-hypnosis that is sort of a waking sleep.
Not that this is bad, but the idea that this gets them closer to some sort of god belies their intelligence.
And they devote their whole lives to this yet.
They are in the world, but not of it.
Seems like kind of a cop-out, saves them from having to face real life.

Originally posted by John Matrix

Originally posted by cancerian42
Actually not all of mankind is striving to achieve a higher state. Some people feel that they are missing something, so they look outward for some solution to their "problems". Other people are just living in the moment, happy to be alive.

Cows eat grass, but don't try to grow better more tasty grass.
Beavers still make dams from branches and mud and don't look for better materials like bricks.
All animal life seems to be pre programmed to do nothing more than what they can do by their nature, and never more.

Man is always striving and seeking more. More knowledge, more wisdom, enlightenment, etc.

Doesn't this indicate that mankind is searching for something that by His very nature he knows he once had?

What about the animals who figured out they could make their life easier by using tools and learning methods to make their lives easier? Like crows, and chimps...

Also a "funny" video here of some animals using tools, watch the one with the bird dropping some food into the water to lure a fish ....

reply to post by John Matrix


If you're a reader, there is a GREAT book I'm reading right now called "The World of Shamanism: New Views of an Ancient Tradition" by Roger Walsh

It's a great book that looks into shamanism from all perspectives, religious, medical, philosophical and psychological. It's a good easy read and gives a lot of information on the beliefs of not only shamanism but of the many other world religions, and also emphasizes the similarities between them as well as the differences.

some praise for the book

"... Unique in bringing together the full range of anthropological, psychological, and psychiatric literature on this vital subject. It does so with admirable scholarship yet still manages to be sensitive and clear" --Christie W. Kiefer, Ph.D

long story short, I think it does a fantastic job of analyzing that infamous "why why why" question... atleast it's been answering it for me haha


I also agree with you in that we are searching for something we once had, and I believe it's that need that keeps us inventing and imagining and living, whether it's been realized or not.
-Jess

Originally posted by cognoscente
reply to post by John Matrix

 

Come on man. You can delve into the realm of metaphysics, or you can do some actual scientific research. If you have the time read Darwin, Dawkins, Caroll, Maynard Smith, Freud... and some more advanced literature on topics such as chemistry, biology, evolutionary psychology, cosmology, physics. If you find out what you actually are you might not be so surprised. It doesn't have to be so literary. It's fine if you want to go that route, you'll learn some interesting truths about human nature but it looks like you want something more.

I want to wake people up without causing a war of words. I am familiar with some quantum physics. The slit experiment and how particles of matter can sometimes turn themselves inside out and become waves is very intriguing. I am doing more learning in that area.

I believe God is all about thought and the best way to describe Heaven is as a Thought Realm. Perhaps that's why the Whole theme of Scripture is concerned with thoughts (which precede actions). I look forward to one day being able to travel anywhere in the Universe and Heaven, at the speed of thought. Think it, and you are there. That will be something know one should want to miss out on.

Originally posted by dawa
Also a "funny" video here of some animals using tools, watch the one with the bird dropping some food into the water to lure a fish ....

Kinda like the chimp that uses a stick to dig ants out of dead trees.
Good video. We need a humorous break and some entertainment no and then.
Thanks

[edit on 20-1-2009 by John Matrix]

reply to post by bandaidctrl


Can you find a link to that book on Shamanism?

Originally posted by cognoscente
reply to post by John Matrix

 

Come on man. You can delve into the realm of metaphysics, or you can do some actual scientific research. If you have the time read Darwin, Dawkins, Caroll, Maynard Smith, Freud... and some more advanced literature on topics such as chemistry, biology, evolutionary psychology, cosmology, physics. If you find out what you actually are you might not be so surprised. It doesn't have to be so literary. It's fine if you want to go that route, you'll learn some interesting truths about human nature but it looks like you want something more.

This whole discussion is pretty pointless. That's why religion shouldn't be discussed. Everyone is entitled to have their own points of view, opinions and believe in whatever they want that suits better their needs.

Personally I stand between Faith and Science, in my personal opinion they are both complimentary and should work together. So I pretty much agree with Einstein and his point of view regarding this.

But everything must be questioned, including established scientific theories.

You say Darwin, I ask you what is so great and so truth about Darwin's work?

His theories are way too much full of holes and missing links to be taken as a final answer. At best he has partially answered something, which basically means nothing. Same is truth for Dawkins.

Freud? What about him, he was just another monkey like the rest of us trying to find a answer to his own problems. He's work is great, but doesn't mean that he has answered how minds work and every humans really thinks.

Which Caroll do reefer to? Seam Carroll?

If so him and all of the above are outspoken atheists, this automatically qualifies them for the group that instead of trying to prove the existence of a GOD try the exact opposite.

I'm amazed on how people choose to accept things so easily (both scientific or religion related) just because it makes sense, it's easy to digest and was wrote on a piece of paper by someone at some point in history and someone else (person or institution) endorsed it.

No one on this planet holds the absolute truth, the definitive answer. This is why trying to impose a line of thinking on someone else is pointless, even if this persons accepts your ideas you would still be living in a planet where questions is all that is.

Originally posted by John Matrix

Originally posted by cognoscente
reply to post by John Matrix

 

I want to wake people up without causing a war of words. I am familiar with some quantum physics. The slit experiment and how particles of matter can sometimes turn themselves inside out and become waves is very intriguing. I am doing more learning in that area.

I believe God is all about thought and the best way to describe Heaven is as a Thought Realm. Perhaps that's why the Whole theme of Scripture is concerned with thoughts (which precede actions). I look forward to one day being able to travel anywhere in the Universe and Heaven, at the speed of thought. Think it, and you are there. That will be something know one should want to miss out on.

A long, long, time ago, a wise man did exactly what you are attempting to do. This is how he solved the problem.

The Tao that can be expressed in words is not the eternal Tao; The name that can be defined is not the unchanging name. Lao Tzu

Those who know do not speak; those who speak do not know. Lao Tzu

Before you can wake people up, you first must be awake.

reply to post by thomas_


I see the point of discussion as involving whether or not there is a possibility of two states of life open to us, instead of just one.

The one state being nature left to itself, the other being the Supernatural manifested in our fallen Nature.

Is it not possible that a supernatural element exists that transcends all reason and religions?

Could mankind have been duped by false religions and false Christs?

Could the supernatural be as close to us as being within us? As simple to activate as turning our hearts to Humility, Meekness, Patience, and Love for God and away from our old nature of Covetousness, envy, pride and wrath?

After studying the works or William Law for many years, which are freely available online, I began to understand things from an entirely new light.
I encourage and yet challenge anyone interested in enlightenment to try to comprehend the insights written down by this Heavenly illuminated Mystic and Lover of God:

www.ccel.org...

Originally posted by xapata
Before you can wake people up, you first must be awake.

You have presented some good insight.
Do you know that I sleep, or that I am awake?

I don't feel I have been duped into rejecting the only redeemer. And no, this post won't follow the eloquent forms of the previous posts, I wish I could write that well!

I don't feel I reject Christianity or Christ, and have always considered myself a Christian BUT it is something I hold close. The reason I hold it close is I DO NOT LIKE THE WAY ALOT OF CHRISTIANS BEHAVE.

I can't stand the close minded negativity and the unwillingness to listen. The Christians I am familiar with talk a big game and love to point their fingers but are the last to lift that finger to help someone. And it seems like if you get 2 Christians together they'll argue about the minute differences in their type of Christianity.

If I were not a Christian from childhood, the behavior of those wanting to cnvert me would surely send me in the other direction------

So far I am pleased that people on this thread have been mindful of others' beliefs, and that it has not sunk into the realm of name calling and harshness as I have found on other threads.

Originally posted by slicobacon
I don't feel I have been duped into rejecting the only redeemer. And no, this post won't follow the eloquent forms of the previous posts, I wish I could write that well!

I don't feel I reject Christianity or Christ, and have always considered myself a Christian BUT it is something I hold close. The reason I hold it close is I DO NOT LIKE THE WAY ALOT OF CHRISTIANS BEHAVE.

I can't stand the close minded negativity and the unwillingness to listen. The Christians I am familiar with talk a big game and love to point their fingers but are the last to lift that finger to help someone. And it seems like if you get 2 Christians together they'll argue about the minute differences in their type of Christianity.

If I were not a Christian from childhood, the behavior of those wanting to cnvert me would surely send me in the other direction------

which previoius post are you refering to?

I agree with all of what you say. Some Christians believe their rote knowledge of Scripture is the be all and end all way to spiritual maturity. They spend their lives memorizing scripture so they can trump their fellow Christians in some sad arena of Competition, but they seldom bear the fruit of the Spirit which is The very Divine Nature of God. We are made partakers of the Divine Nature upon believing, so that is what we should seek as our very nature and Character. My opinion of course!