Has Mankind been Duped into Rejecting The only Redeemer?

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posted on Jan, 20 2009 @ 07:47 AM
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Originally posted by John Matrix
reply to post by cancerian42
 


What I mean is that animals do what they seem to be programmed to do and never anything more. I've played some computer games and I started to see that, if you take any animal, they always act the same way, a lot like the Artificial Intelligence programing in some computer games.

OK, have a good laugh, I don't mind. If I can make you crack a smile, then I will take it as a good thing.

If it's a predator, they hunt, kill, eat, sleep, drink, that same way all the time. If a Cow, it does what cows always have done. Pick any animal, they do as they always have.

Surely the same can't be said for mankind who is obviously always looking for some higher state of being, and bettering for himself. Sure, some things in mankind's nature never change...such as his deceitfulness, even deceiving himself quite often etc.


I see you have played games.

But sure you did not have any animals.

Stick with Nintendo, pets are not for you.




posted on Jan, 20 2009 @ 08:55 AM
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reply to post by Ant4AU
 





If you are right then I have wasted nothing I lived my life to fullest and had a good time and my bones will simply become dirt and an eternity won‘t matter. But if I am right I will be with the creator in an eternity of joy and happiness and you won’t.


Right on!!! I love it!!



posted on Jan, 20 2009 @ 08:57 AM
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Isn’t it interesting what people will believe?

The people worshipping in the Cathedral say they are right, for it is the only way to salvation. The people worshipping in the Mosque say the same; and in the Temple; and in the Synagogue; and in the Convent.

Then there are those who say that there is no God, for if there were, they would surely see Him. Not to mention those who think there must be ‘something’, but don’t know what; plus those who don’t know and don’t want to know, and aren’t the remotest bit interested in the subject anyway.

Much of mankind is looking for the reason behind their present life; the what’s, the why’s and the wherefore’s. Some use scientific instruments to search for an elegant structure or mathematical formulae or unwritten law, to find what makes a material behave in a certain way, or find how certain particles behave when placed next to each other.

How could this tiny seed grow to be one of the largest trees on our planet, what chemical code is contained inside it? Every so often someone digs a little deeper and finds a buried code such as DNA, which changes life in our societies, and opens up considerable possibilities. Look at the structure of a snowflake, all of the different geometric patterns, and no two being identical.

Does it occur to you that there must be some vast, complex and all-knowing energy, mind or being, who has created all of the natural laws, codifications, formulae, etcetera; or could it just be down to an accidental big bang?

As Humans, we are naturally inquisitive and try to find out more about the world we live in, and some try to find this superlative energy of creation. Some go to the Cathedral; the Mosque, Temple, Synagogue or Convent; not to mention the Science Lab. They are all searching for something because they ‘know’ deep inside them that there is ‘something or someone’ which created our reality, and they want to know more.

And, do you know what; they are all looking in the right place? For whether you have a religion or none, something of the truth can be found in each of these places, but not necessarily the whole vast truth. So, when somebody enthusiastically says that by studying the life of Jesus you can seek wisdom and truth, they are not wrong. But down the road in the Mosque, people are seeking that very same wisdom and truth, and they will find some of it there, as will the folks who go to the other places.

One man’s truth may be different from that of another, but it is just at another point on the same path; although some people just don’t know that.


[edit on 20/1/2009 by Tallsorts]



posted on Jan, 20 2009 @ 09:00 AM
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I apologise reading only small part of this whole thread, but I wanted to add one more perspective into it. My view only, I dont claim it to be anything more.
Since dualism, karma, balance, right/wrong, god/satan whatever it can be called seems to be pretty solid basis in our views, both are very needed in order to make development/evolution/ etc. possible. Both are in us because we have free will.
Therefore, in order to keep that free will and to further develop myself, Im trying to balance between these two. Only side I try to choose is being alive in general. I believe that this automatically shifts me, at least a bit, into the direction I want to go in the end.



posted on Jan, 20 2009 @ 09:05 AM
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reply to post by Tallsorts
 




One man’s truth may be different from that of another, but it is just at another point on the same path; although some people just don’t know that.


They all can't be true, mostly because some of them are directly opposed with one-another, Jesus said "Broad is the path to destruction,narrow is the way to life" meaning as he stated elsewhere that He is the narrow path, those statements leave no room for other so called truths. Islam holds the same view point they and they alone are right, we will all know someday or we will all be dirt and it won't matter then will it?



posted on Jan, 20 2009 @ 09:05 AM
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Originally posted by Ridhya
reply to post by John Matrix
 

I'm not saying you're forcing your beliefs but you seem to find them as truth when you're asking a rhetorical question at the end of all of your posts.


True, and I am aware that what I belive may not be what others believe, and both of us (each defending our views) would be unchanged, though we heap all our evidences on top of each other.



posted on Jan, 20 2009 @ 09:33 AM
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Originally posted by Gears Of War
No

Mankind simply has a more powerful brain, we have developed more, we have reasoning and thought capabilities, we don't simply function on genetic survival thoughts as such.


You can't compare beavers and cows to humans...

Mankind gets bored, they invent, they think, have vivid imaginations and struggle with their own existence... they get scared so they create a savior to make themselves feel better...

[edit on 19-1-2009 by Gears Of War]


I'm not even get into the religious stuff. But in defense of animal life I would say that a "more powerful brain" and all the traces mentioned by you don't mean much on a larger picture and are merely a question of perspective.

The universe always stays on balance whether you, me and everyone else likes it or not.

Everything that we take as progress automatically generates a regressive state in other matters. If you search for something very hard you might get it but once you do you may realize that you lost something along the way. That's why all this struggle.

Everything that we do (create, invent) to move us forward in one regard automatically moves us backwards on other regards.

Animals in the other hand can be considered smarter then humans in some aspects since they manage (know how) to live in perfect balance. They don't desire to be anything else aside what they already are. They just live, maybe just by doing that they understand their part in the universe better than ourselves.

We are the ones that need to feel superior, know everything and have this necessity to feel special to a point of reaching demigods or GOD like standards.

Humans are constantly searching for something in the extreme (eventually reaching them at certain times) keeping the mere illusion of "moving forward" while in fact we aren't moving at all.

That doesn't mean that I think we all should be living in caves, walking around naked and eating raw food, not that this interminable search is bad but I'm certain that we haven't found the balance of existence yet. And we may never find it since we are not looking for it.

I think that this was exactly what Buddha, Christ and many others were talking about, walking the middle path.



posted on Jan, 20 2009 @ 09:40 AM
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Originally posted by Wertdagf
reply to post by Ant4AU
 


I know that many will never understand this. Even if this theory was proven true people would still pray to jesus to forgive their sins. Its impossible to take something away form somone when they have built their entire personality off of it. Its like an ugly mutated twin thats grown on you for so long that removing it would probobly kill you.


I believe you are correct. To clean the Soul of all it's sinful nature, sinful memories and the scars from past sins that are written it, all at one time, would leave One in a pitiful state indeed. Spiritual circumcision of the heart and mind is a process that is not done with an Axe. The process involves many delicate Spiritual operations. As one turns their heart to the Divine Nature of God(lives by the Spirit) the Holy Spirit reveals to our Spirit (little by little) those areas that need to be stripped clean(receive forgiveness and believe). So, it is not just the conscious mind that needs forgiveness of Sins, but also the Hidden memories. And it is not a natural thing for man to search his own heart for areas that need to experience forgiveness of sins, whether it be for one's self, or forgiveness of others that may have hurt Him in the past. Unbelief exists in many corners of the heart and mind, and these areas of unbelief must be slowly dealt with, and experience Faith, Forgiveness of sins, and the new Nature of Christ.



posted on Jan, 20 2009 @ 09:43 AM
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reply to post by John Matrix
 


We are not in a fallen state, we are in a evolving state....and a very slow one at that.

Teachers have came and shown us, we are all ONE....we have few that can understand this yet, so they take the teacher and make them a part of their religions traditions.

The highest level is a ONENESS...to reach that ONENESS, one has to look past the idea that we are all separate. But all with good time, we will come around. All is working as planned, I believe, every thought and belief serve a purpose for our sifting.

The idea of a savior make people feel better. Its a fast fix for their fears.

LV



posted on Jan, 20 2009 @ 09:48 AM
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Originally posted by toochaos4u
I do not believe in the fallen nature of mankind. Rather, I feel that mankind are children growing up and will be much more than we are today in time of course.


[edit on 20/1/2009 by toochaos4u]


I believe mankind's very act of striving for a higher state is evidence for His once having a higher state. Without any sensibility of a higher state, man would be as content as the animals who have no sensibility of their ever being a higher state for themselves. So, I believe it is this very striving for a higher state that is the best evidence for mankind's fallen nature and his need for a Spiritual awakening and rebirth.



posted on Jan, 20 2009 @ 09:53 AM
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Originally posted by spellbound

Originally posted by John Matrix
Are we in a fallen state as the Bible says? If not, then why do we seek a higher state of consciousness, awakening, enlightenment, oneness with God, etc.?



Has mankind been duped into believing He can attain a higher state of being without Christ as His redeemer?

Why? Why? Why?

Yes, because it is the work of the Devil.


I agree the Devil continues His work of deception?
Can you give us more information about why you believe this?


[edit on 20-1-2009 by John Matrix]



posted on Jan, 20 2009 @ 10:03 AM
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Originally posted by spellbound
reply to post by John Matrix
 


You are so right - God is glorious Light - and Jesus is the Light of the World.

Every time I try and intoduce people to the Lord and Jesus...I just get crap.

What does that tell you - that people need to be saved but they don't want to be.


Perhaps you try too hard. Rest in Him, live by the Spirit, desire Humility, Meekness, Patience and Love for God to be fullty seated on the thrown of your Soul(heart and mind). This will make you stand in stark contrast to the Spirit of this World, and God will bring those to you that need to hear. There may be one that God brings, or many, it is all His Will.
So we Pray, not my will Father, but thy Will be done on Earth as it is in Heaven.

I hope I have not been too presuptuous, and this helps you.



posted on Jan, 20 2009 @ 10:08 AM
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Originally posted by cindy22761

Matthew 24:4

And Jesus answered and said unto them,
"Take heed that no man deceive you."

We were warned to be prepared for the end times
which begins with the deception and the falling away.

Remember: LOVE + Forgiveness = Peace :up


These Simple truths, that even small children readily understand), are so Profound.



posted on Jan, 20 2009 @ 10:12 AM
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Well you can tell by all the answers that very few are on the right track!
Very few will find the way!



posted on Jan, 20 2009 @ 10:15 AM
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Originally posted by racegunz
Jesus said "Broad is the path to destruction,narrow is the way to life" meaning as he stated elsewhere that He is the narrow path, those statements leave no room for other so called truths. Islam holds the same view point they and they alone are right, we will all know someday or we will all be dirt and it won't matter then will it?


That sentence just means that it's easier to cause destruction, death than it is to live in "harmony" with us and everything around us. Which is absolutely truth.

In my personal opinion any enlightened being like Jesus didn't want brainless followers following them just for the sake of having a spiritual leader, replicating their words without actually trying to understanding them.

They simply wanted to be really understood, so each one could see for themselves the same light that they saw and thus be able to follow their same path.



posted on Jan, 20 2009 @ 10:17 AM
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reply to post by John Matrix
 



Has mankind been duped into believing He can attain a higher state of being without Christ as His redeemer?


No, actually I believe people have been "Duped" int believing there actually is an "All Mighty Creator" and teh world is catching on.


Why? Why? Why?


"WE are the masters of our realities, not some omnipotent being."

Our decision's make our out comes and realities, there is nothing more simply accepted than "I made a mistake, and it won't happen again." thought processed scenarios, No god to bail you out there, just self acknowledgements of doing incorrect or wrong thing's.

"No God involved, just you and your actions with reactions throughout our lives."



posted on Jan, 20 2009 @ 10:20 AM
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Originally posted by moocowman
reply to post by Wertdagf
 





Thats alot of times that god wispered in peoples ears to slaughter others... or to pray for a cure to a disease.



Nice post,interestingly enough this redeeming jesusgod seems to have lied in relation to prayer.

Not but once has there ever been a case of an amputee having a limb regenerated. But we already know what the BS response to this is don't we.



If miracles such as those you seek happen everyday, they would cease to be miraculous, and you would still reject Christ as your Savior.

God Does work through man, and many Christian men are responsible for finding many life saving cures to diseases that once wiped out millions of people. Researchers are getting close to growing new limbs. They have done this with lab animals.

If God did everything, man would do nothing, yet whatever man accomplishes, the Glory should go to God, for it is by God's Will that we take our next breath.

I may not be able to prove it, but you cannot disprove it either.



posted on Jan, 20 2009 @ 10:37 AM
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Originally posted by 1234567
Enlightenment would IMO mean knowledge of our reason for being here, and love for each and every other human and living creature on this planet. Until we reach this state of mind, God (if one exists, and how ever you want to portray God) will only then start to make some kind of contact with us.

Many people do NOT believe in Christ, Mohamed etc, but are still good people who believe in Love for each other. And IMO that is all we need, because religion in this world has brought only fear, suffering and death and not forgettnig division between humans who are all the same regardless.

In my life i do not label people as Christian, Muslim, Hindu etc etc, i label them as Humans from Earth. We are all one and the same.

Anyway, thanks for the post, starred n flagged for promoting a good discussion.

Peace and Love.


Thank you for your comments. I hope you don't mind that I quote(above) only some of what you said. I did however read all of it.

I do see enlightenment as knowing our purpose, and having within us the strength of character required to truly "Love my neighbor as myself", but also to Love God.

One needs not religion or the Bible to do this, but the Bible gives us the larger picture of the overview that I opened this thread with, which is:
i) man is Fallen from his original divine spiritual state which he had when first created.
2) man needs a redeemer to set him back on course to attaining that which was lost from the Fall.
3) God has reached out to man and offers us a plan that is so simple that a small child can understand.

And you are correct is saying

"religion in this world has brought only fear, suffering and death and not forgettnig division between humans who are all the same regardless".

The simplicity of the Gospel according to Jesus, has been presented in a corrupt and perverted manner through organized religion.



posted on Jan, 20 2009 @ 10:38 AM
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Originally posted by racegunz
They all can't be true, mostly because some of them are directly opposed with one-another, Jesus said "Broad is the path to destruction,narrow is the way to life" meaning as he stated elsewhere that He is the narrow path, those statements leave no room for other so called truths. Islam holds the same view point they and they alone are right, we will all know someday or we will all be dirt and it won't matter then will it?


You are missing the point, which is, that all the major religions of the world contain some of the truth, but not the whole truth. Where they go wrong is with the dogma and cant which they all contain.

The materialism of the religion makes followers look, feel and be different, from followers of the other religions, and thus those members divide themselves from their 'Brothers & Sisters' who belong to a different religion.

Every human on the planet has a piece of God alive within their soul; what we need is love for our brothers and sisters who have another religion or no religion. After all didn't Jesus Christ teach us to love our fellow mankind, not to pick holes in their philosophy, or give out hatred.

Love is all, is it not?



posted on Jan, 20 2009 @ 10:47 AM
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Originally posted by racegunz
reply to post by Ant4AU
 





If you are right then I have wasted nothing I lived my life to fullest and had a good time and my bones will simply become dirt and an eternity won‘t matter. But if I am right I will be with the creator in an eternity of joy and happiness and you won’t.


Right on!!! I love it!!


And if throughout our lives we have loved our neighbor as ourselves, and loved God, then we have done no harm, and we have not been part of the world's problems. We have simply been part of the fabric that has held back complete darkness and chaos. When we are all gone, the flood gates of Hell will be unleashed on earth, for the fabric will no longer be here.





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