Has Mankind been Duped into Rejecting The only Redeemer?

Originally posted by Grandma
"Say ye of Him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God? If I do not the works of My Father, believe me not. But if I do, though ye believe not Me, believe the works: that ye may know, and believe, that the Father IS in me, and I in Him. (John 10:36-38)

I bleive that makes it pretty straight forward to understand what Christ was saying here about Himself. It is through Christ that we have peace with God.
Peace to you,
Grandma

I have trouble wrapping my head around some of King Jimmy's words.

I like this NIV version:

John 10:
36. what about the one whom the Father set apart as his very own and sent into the world? Why then do you accuse me of blasphemy because I said, 'I am God's Son'?
37. Do not believe me unless I do what my Father does.
38. But if I do it, even though you do not believe me, believe the miracles, that you may know and understand that the Father is in me, and I in the Father."
39. Again they tried to seize him, but he escaped their grasp.

Hmmm? I recall someone asking the question, "where did Jesus say he was God's Son, or the Son of God", and there it is right there.....
Thanks for the Word well placed!!

reply to post by Ant4AU


No, thankfully nothing of the sort. For me it's just my experiences and observations of how some people use religion as control and governance -- not as a means of enlightenment.

I've never been to church and as I mentioned, I'm an atheist. But having said that, I'm open minded and enjoy hearing other peoples' opinions, especially when they make me question my own beliefs.

I think for me, it's more about cause and effect, black and white, on or off. There is no true randomness as everything has a reason behind it, even if we can't immediately see it. And all things living belong to the same flow of energy. I know that sounds a bit Star Warsy.

But energy is energy -- it's neither good nor bad. It's what you do with it that defines it's nature. That's my personal ethos.

Some people already think they are in a higher state of mind, and have to work harder just to fit in in this world >>

I think the Bible is teaching us to just be a "follower" not a leader.

There already is a Leader and that's God/Allah/Jesus whatever you want to call it.

But problem is we strive to become "leader" without knowing it. By the book, we're supposed to follow God's Word without giving too much thought.

If we overthink, its bad, its a Sin, just like when Lucifer(as God angel) was too Proud of himself and "thought" to replace God.And we all know what happened afterwards.

So my point is: simply the more we use our minds and make changes for ourselves the more we might "suffer from God"

there's no perfect answer to satisfy both God and our growing minds.

Originally posted by John Matrix
Are we in a fallen state as the Bible says? If not, then why do we seek a higher state of consciousness, awakening, enlightenment, oneness with God, etc.?

The animals do what they have always done and nothing more.

Mankind is different, always striving to attain some higher state than His present one.

Has mankind been duped into believing He can attain a higher state of being without Christ as His redeemer?

Why? Why? Why?

You bible bashers! I hate you all...............

Wake up and smell the coffee. You live and you die! Stop feeling sorry for yourselves...

To answer your original question simply, I would have to say that most of mankind has been duped into thinking they need to achieve a higher state whether it be by christianity or any other method. What is wrong with our current state? Most of mankind searches outside of themself for enlightenment or betterment of the self, but enlightenment should not be a goal, enlightenment is a state of being, it is in this moment. If you think of enlightenment as something to be achieved in the future you will not achieve it. If you think you will be a better person, just not right now, you are a hindrance rather than a help to your goal. You have to be who you want to be, it is not something for the future.

Yes, mankind has been duped. Satan has taken a back-door to lure people into his lair by using new-age mumbo jumbo. I happened to read an article this very day about the church of satan, how Anton Levey knowingly watered down the fact that he and his upper level henchmen actually did worship satan as an entity, an actual being. He/they knew that to lure people to the cos, they had to make it more attractive, so they called the core of satanism a kind of personal force within, learning to be your own god-type-of-thing, when all along they worship satan as their god.

Here is the article:

www.goodfight.org...

Check out the many exposes' -- there are some things there that will surprise you. Sarah Maclachlin for example, I didn't know she was so fond of satan, she thinks very highly of him.




[edit on 11-11-2009 by Bombeni]

reply to post by John Matrix


Its the way of lucy and his elite followers. They are satisfied spiritually since they no he exist and dont know where Christ is. W/O acknowledging if you know about lucy then CHRIST HAS TO BE REAL ALSO. MOST PEOPLE ARE EASLY TRICKED BY WHAT THEY GET TO SEE.

Originally posted by John Matrix

Originally posted by Wertdagf
reply to post by Ant4AU

 

There is a differance though.... One of our loops is based on real research and explorations... the other is based on one book that tells you to belive it or go to hell.

The earth is not 6000 years old.... Noahs ark is NOT FEASIBLE AT ALL.

I was not there so I don't know for sure. But 600 ft long and 200 ft. wide rectangle shaped barge with 3 levels inside might hold everything...and if they were not full grown...who knows? , and if placed into hibernation by God, then His family could well have taken care of them for a year.

It's possible that hibernation today could be the result of a residual from the time of the flood when the animals were in the arc.

No one knows because none of us observed it.....but these things are possible.



[edit on 19-1-2009 by John Matrix]

No, theyre not.

Besides there being no evidence of a world wide flood and no ark ever found, it's just not genetically possible that all the men alive today descended from a single male some 2000 or so years ago.
Do you really believe that only 4000 odd years ago there were only Noah and his family alive on Earth? how did all the different races come from just one family?

Where did all the water come from? where did it all go? how was it that Noah and his fam's lungs didnt collapse from the atmospheric pressure?

If god made everything at once- ie all the different animal species how on earth did Noah get two of everything- and how did he feed them? was there bamboo growing on the ark for the pandas to eat? enough to last them 40 days and nights do you know how much bamboo a panda needs to survive for just a day?
how did they store all this food to feed the animals? what did the lions eat?

- and so on.

It makes zero sense but above and beyond all that you do realise the exact same story was written some 2000 years earlier don't you?
Christianity plagurised the story in other words- to put the 'fear of god' into people so they are easily manipulated- this is what bible god does to people who dont adhere to his rules- rebel you die! you must do as I say! otherwise I will kill you

reply to post by John Matrix


just as original sin is a part of all of us, we are designed to desire a return to our original state. but in a fallen world, a world of lies, not everyone will be strong enough or take the time to learn the truth. so we resort to what feels good, what seems right in the moment, and subjective, individualized morality.

reply to post by John Matrix


I am going to just say,

Yes

Mankind is always getting dupped....

I would say the idea that we are to believe in something we cant see is duping mankind.

I have my own belies and foster hope that there is a higher something that is Holy and Divine...but why would I try to convince anyone else of this belief...I cant proof it to them....and for them to believe me just on my word of it...then wow...what kind of reasons would they have to believe me?

How do you know we need saved? How do you know we are fallen?

How do you know that things are not happening exactly as they are supposed to...without any mistakes?

Doesnt carry your own cross say that you are your own redeemer?

Doesnt the words you will reap what you sow show that our works are what saves us?

Just talking outloud
LV

Originally posted by lifecitizen

Originally posted by John Matrix

Originally posted by Wertdagf
reply to post by Ant4AU

 

There is a differance though.... One of our loops is based on real research and explorations... the other is based on one book that tells you to belive it or go to hell.

The earth is not 6000 years old.... Noahs ark is NOT FEASIBLE AT ALL.

I was not there so I don't know for sure. But 600 ft long and 200 ft. wide rectangle shaped barge with 3 levels inside might hold everything...and if they were not full grown...who knows? , and if placed into hibernation by God, then His family could well have taken care of them for a year.

It's possible that hibernation today could be the result of a residual from the time of the flood when the animals were in the arc.

No one knows because none of us observed it.....but these things are possible.



[edit on 19-1-2009 by John Matrix]

No, theyre not.

Besides there being no evidence of a world wide flood and no ark ever found, it's just not genetically possible that all the men alive today descended from a single male some 2000 or so years ago.
Do you really believe that only 4000 odd years ago there were only Noah and his family alive on Earth? how did all the different races come from just one family?

Where did all the water come from? where did it all go? how was it that Noah and his fam's lungs didnt collapse from the atmospheric pressure?

If god made everything at once- ie all the different animal species how on earth did Noah get two of everything- and how did he feed them? was there bamboo growing on the ark for the pandas to eat? enough to last them 40 days and nights do you know how much bamboo a panda needs to survive for just a day?
how did they store all this food to feed the animals? what did the lions eat?

- and so on.

It makes zero sense but above and beyond all that you do realise the exact same story was written some 2000 years earlier don't you?
Christianity plagurised the story in other words- to put the 'fear of god' into people so they are easily manipulated- this is what bible god does to people who dont adhere to his rules- rebel you die! you must do as I say! otherwise I will kill you

God created the earth and every living thing on it, is it really that hard of a stretch for you, to believe that God could supply one man's boat with enough food to feed pairs of His animals?

The story makes perfect sense, it may contain miraculous elements, but we are talking about God; practically everything we take for granted in nature is miraculous! And you call it a manipulation. You will find one day, mark my words, that it is YOU who were manipulated.

The forbidden fruit was forbidden for a real reason, trust me I know. I was on a mission seeking God. I looked for many signs gaining knowledge and educating myself on beings such as Baphomet, Ba'al, and etc. I found what I was looking for, but when I got there I was so intrigued by what I had learned I kept searching. Then the truth started becoming distorted with every article I read.

I became obsessed with finding signs; I gave up looking for the truth. I watched Two and a Half men, found plenty of evil signs there, as well as Friends. Then I realized what I was seeing were signs of evil. The more I seen these signs the harder is was to get the images out of my head.

God did not want us to eat that fruit because he knew it would have us turn against each other, and become tormented. You look at the world today and people usually say "what kind of God would let this happen to his own people". People don't know that the devil does these evil deeds through the people who closely worship him. He gave them power destroy the Earth so that people may turn away from God.

Believe me I know this because I started turning away from God at one point. I am still trying to turn back to God, but it is very difficult. It is easier to turn evil in this world, then to turn good in an evil one. What we are seeing today is an age which will usher in a one world government, and there is nothing to stop it.

Either accept Christ and his teaching, or might as well help the opposite side reign in their prince. The facts about fallen angels are all their, all you have to do is look for signs. There are plenty of signs if you look closely at the entertainment industry. As a rapper, I know because I seen these signs when perform. They may not be aware of it because they take it for a face value, bu there are deeper meanings to many things.

I am not asking you to believe what I am saying because I know how hard it is to grasp. All I am saying is do your own research about how much Satan worship goes on within leaders. Signs like the longhorns symbol, which governments who are not from Texas are waving.

Research Aleister Crowley and haw he was influenced by Satan while in the Gaza pyramid. Satan himself gave Aleister the book of law.

Do your own research and come to a conclusion on which side you want to be on, before it is too late.

reply to post by Equinox99


Nice post equinox99.

I believe that if people who are on the fence would faithfully ask God to give them a sign, He would. But it may not be instantaneous. I was asking God for a sign, without really realizing it, and I got my sign in a big way. Long story, long time ago.

"Ask and the door shall be opened"

Originally posted by Bombeni

Originally posted by lifecitizen

Originally posted by John Matrix

Originally posted by Wertdagf
reply to post by Ant4AU

 

There is a differance though.... One of our loops is based on real research and explorations... the other is based on one book that tells you to belive it or go to hell.

The earth is not 6000 years old.... Noahs ark is NOT FEASIBLE AT ALL.

I was not there so I don't know for sure. But 600 ft long and 200 ft. wide rectangle shaped barge with 3 levels inside might hold everything...and if they were not full grown...who knows? , and if placed into hibernation by God, then His family could well have taken care of them for a year.

It's possible that hibernation today could be the result of a residual from the time of the flood when the animals were in the arc.

No one knows because none of us observed it.....but these things are possible.



[edit on 19-1-2009 by John Matrix]

No, theyre not.

Besides there being no evidence of a world wide flood and no ark ever found, it's just not genetically possible that all the men alive today descended from a single male some 2000 or so years ago.
Do you really believe that only 4000 odd years ago there were only Noah and his family alive on Earth? how did all the different races come from just one family?

Where did all the water come from? where did it all go? how was it that Noah and his fam's lungs didnt collapse from the atmospheric pressure?

If god made everything at once- ie all the different animal species how on earth did Noah get two of everything- and how did he feed them? was there bamboo growing on the ark for the pandas to eat? enough to last them 40 days and nights do you know how much bamboo a panda needs to survive for just a day?
how did they store all this food to feed the animals? what did the lions eat?

- and so on.

It makes zero sense but above and beyond all that you do realise the exact same story was written some 2000 years earlier don't you?
Christianity plagurised the story in other words- to put the 'fear of god' into people so they are easily manipulated- this is what bible god does to people who dont adhere to his rules- rebel you die! you must do as I say! otherwise I will kill you

God created the earth and every living thing on it, is it really that hard of a stretch for you, to believe that God could supply one man's boat with enough food to feed pairs of His animals?

The story makes perfect sense, it may contain miraculous elements, but we are talking about God; practically everything we take for granted in nature is miraculous! And you call it a manipulation. You will find one day, mark my words, that it is YOU who were manipulated.

Oh of course- even though there's no proof of a world wide flood, no sign of an ark, the exact same story was done some 2000 years earlier and it just isn't genetically possible you still believe what you are told to believe despite the over whelming evidence- I would counter that it is you that is being manipulated-

You didn't answer all the other questions I notice- very selective- you obviously can't answer them and fall back on the standard 'god is so miraculous line we aren't meant to understand' line which shows how indoctrintated you are- I will believe without question what I'm told even though it doesn't make any sense.

Originally posted by 5thElement
Those who sacrifice their freedom of thought for a safety of "eternal" life are the ones who are actually fallen

I agree.

I also wonder, "why, why, why." Why would someone ever put blind faith into a religion that has a history of not only being addicted to controlling as many people as possible, but also killing millions of people, forcing families to turn on each other and rat each other out as heretics in the face of torture, etc.?

Why?

Jesus spread a message of love and brotherhood, but I don't remember anything about him saying anyone should be stupid, too.

Originally posted by bsbray11

Originally posted by 5thElement
Those who sacrifice their freedom of thought for a safety of "eternal" life are the ones who are actually fallen

I agree.

I also wonder, "why, why, why." Why would someone ever put blind faith into a religion that has a history of not only being addicted to controlling as many people as possible, but also killing millions of people, forcing families to turn on each other and rat each other out as heretics in the face of torture, etc.?

Why?

Jesus spread a message of love and brotherhood, but I don't remember anything about him saying anyone should be stupid, too.

it's mind boggling isn't it

Jesus's message of love and brotherhood is limited to those that believe in him- everyone else can (and will) die as far as he's concerned.

Originally posted by bsbray11

Originally posted by 5thElement
Those who sacrifice their freedom of thought for a safety of "eternal" life are the ones who are actually fallen

I agree.

I also wonder, "why, why, why." Why would someone ever put blind faith into a religion that has a history of not only being addicted to controlling as many people as possible, but also killing millions of people, forcing families to turn on each other and rat each other out as heretics in the face of torture, etc.?

Why?

Jesus spread a message of love and brotherhood, but I don't remember anything about him saying anyone should be stupid, too.

Why/ Because I don't put my faith in man, man has distorted it and made it a "religion" I put my faith in God, not what some evangelist on T.V. says about God. Its about having a personal relationship with the creator, not showing up in some building on sunday morning to keep up appearances, which so many people do I think most people don't really know what being a Christian means because they have so many people telling them falsehoods, and confusing the truth.

Originally posted by John Matrix
Are we in a fallen state as the Bible says? If not, then why do we seek a higher state of consciousness, awakening, enlightenment, oneness with God, etc.?

The animals do what they have always done and nothing more.

Mankind is different, always striving to attain some higher state than His present one.

Has mankind been duped into believing He can attain a higher state of being without Christ as His redeemer?

Why? Why? Why?

Very briefly - yes we are in a fallen state. The question is, who recognises it for what it is and who does not.

Has mankind been duped? - Yes but not in the sense that he can attain a higher state of being. The dupe comes in the process of attaining that higher state of being. We step on each other as we climb our own ladders. No one ever goes back down to help his fellow man. When I think of the word "man", I think of a race, not a being. If we're going to succeed in the sense you speak of, it's going to be all at the same time, not individually.