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SERVICE? Obama and Jesus? A Good thing?

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posted on Jan, 19 2009 @ 12:28 PM
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Article link here: blogs.usatoday.com...

Does Faith have an appropriate role in the Inauguration and the Obama administration?


In today’s (Jan 19th, 2008) USA TODAY, Christian Author Os Guiness (yes, the beer family guy) asks a number of very poignant questions and assertions in a full-page spread.

I’ve linked the article above, pasted the intro here…


The controversy over Warren’s inaugural invocation shows how far this country still must travel to escape the culture wars. In the months ahead, President Obama should lead this nation’s discussion toward a new ‘true remedy’ to quell the battles over faith in public life.


The article's conclusion...


My own desired outcome would be for all Americans to face up to the reality of our culture warring impasse, dig deep in our spiritual and historical resources, and work together with the president for a painful reconciliation and the possibility of a "new, new birth of freedom." A city on a hill, as Jesus of Nazareth said long before John Winthrop and Ronald Reagan, "cannot be hidden." The world watches and waits to see whether what our Founders called the "new order of the ages" can still live up to its promise in this stirring new day.




ATS, I have a few questions for you…

1)Can religion help a society? How and why?

2)Can religion hurt a society? How and why?

3)Do you have experiences of either?

4)Is not the recent emphasis on SERVICE a result of the example of Martin Luther King and the Lord Jesus Christ?



OT

[edit on 19-1-2009 by OldThinker]




posted on Jan, 19 2009 @ 01:11 PM
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I haven't watched it all yet, but this looks like an interesting little video about the history of inaugurations.

Video

As regards Obama's Inauguration, I think if he wants religion to be represented there, he should be permitted to do that. If a president didn't want religion represented, I think he or she should have that freedom.

As long as they take the oath outlined in the Constitution, the rest is gravy.


1)Can religion help a society? How and why?

I think religion is a personal thing and should be practiced in church and with one's family and friends. However, I think religious-based organizations can help a community and society, as long as there is no attachment to the religion. In other words, religious-based organizations can hold bake sales and donate to shelters or hold pot-lucks for homeless people as long as they do so without proselytizing.

2)Can religion hurt a society? How and why?

Yes. Whenever religion is forced it is hurtful. If a religious-based organization wants to help society, they should do so without a "trade" of selling their religion to those they have helped. Religion should not be involved.

3)Do you have experiences of either?

I gave an example of religion-based organization helping society by donating to shelters and helping homeless people. I have the experience of being homeless and being helped by St. Vincent De Paul's.


As far as religion hurting society, religion itself is neutral. It's the people who screw it up. And I've seen plenty of that. The world has seen and is seeing an example of religious differences causing war.

4)Is not the recent emphasis on SERVICE a result of the example of Martin Luther King and the Lord Jesus Christ?

Yes. And it's a good example. However, religion is not necessary to perform community service. Not at all.



[edit on 19-1-2009 by Benevolent Heretic]



posted on Jan, 19 2009 @ 01:20 PM
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Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
I haven't watched it all yet, but this looks like an interesting little video about the history of inaugurations.

Video

As regards Obama's Inauguration, I think if he wants religion to be represented there, he should be permitted to do that. If a president didn't want religion represented, I think he or she should have that freedom.

As long as they take the oath outlined in the Constitution, the rest is gravy.


1)Can religion help a society? How and why?

I think religion is a personal thing and should be practiced in church and with one's family and friends. However, I think religious-based organizations can help a community and society, as long as there is no attachment to the religion. In other words, religious-based organizations can hold bake sales and donate to shelters or hold pot-lucks for homeless people as long as they do so without proselytizing.

2)Can religion hurt a society? How and why?

Yes. Whenever religion is forced it is hurtful. If a religious-based organization wants to help society, they should do so without a "trade" of selling their religion to those they have helped. Religion should not be involved.

3)Do you have experiences of either?

I gave an example of religion-based organization helping society by donating to shelters and helping homeless people. I have the experience of being homeless and being helped by St. Vincent De Paul's.


As far as religion hurting society, religion itself is neutral. It's the people who screw it up. And I've seen plenty of that. The world has seen and is seeing an example of religious differences causing war.

4)Is not the recent emphasis on SERVICE a result of the example of Martin Luther King and the Lord Jesus Christ?

Yes. And it's a good example. However, religion is not necessary to perform community service. Not at all.



[edit on 19-1-2009 by Benevolent Heretic]


Benevolent Heretic, Thank you for the video and your thoughtful answers!!!...I'll review vid for sure...

What do you mean in the last sentence about religion and community service? Is that not the reason for faith? To help people/society get better? Meet NEEDS?

OT

Also are you going to watch Glenn Beck tonight?

He's got Palin, on the Obama Presidency and Joel Osteen on living a faith that welcomes ALL and promotes UNITY in the country...



posted on Jan, 19 2009 @ 01:55 PM
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1)Can religion help a society? How and why?
Sure it can, it enforces certain moral guidelines for those who couldn't think of it for themselves, not to mention the entertainment value of participating in religious rituals.
Even though people would still do good and bad in the absence of religion, the fear of Satan, hell or any other paranormal entities causes some of them to stick with the good side.

2)Can religion hurt a society? How and why?
Yes, it breeds ignorance. By accepting a religious belief as truth, we stop looking for answers, effectively stalling development.
Also, something that influences the populace as much as religion is bound to be exploited, people are willing to do anything if we convince them its what God wants.
Still, religion is just the medium, in the absence of religion these people would probably just try to find another way to manipulate the masses.

3)Do you have experiences of either?
Pure observation of our current society.
For the good, you have the countless number of people who do good in name of Religion.
Lots of examples for the bad, election speeches, evangelists, scientology, the stalling of stem cell and nanotechnology research, etc...


4)Is not the recent emphasis on SERVICE a result of the example of Martin Luther King and the Lord Jesus Christ?
What recent emphasis on service? not sure in what context you're talking about, too ambiguous.
Edit: Ok I get it, did some research and it appears today is community work day, to answer your question:
Yes, Martin and Jesus are a great motivation for this situation. But I believe people would still do it in some way or another regardless of what happened in the past.


[edit on 19-1-2009 by TurinPT]



posted on Jan, 19 2009 @ 02:02 PM
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Originally posted by OldThinker
What do you mean in the last sentence about religion and community service? Is that not the reason for faith? To help people/society get better? Meet NEEDS?


I have no idea what the reason for "faith" is. I've been detached from religion for so long, I don't have any connection to why people practice it. But I do have a strong desire to make people/society better. Because I live here. I love people. I love my country. And helping us all get better is the right thing to do.



Also are you going to watch Glenn Beck tonight?


No. I have no desire to hear him. I do like the idea of unity, but I'm afraid it's a fantasy. People are too attached to their particular sects of religion to feel unity with other sects. Christians and Muslims feeling "unity"? Maybe a few of them, but not the majority.



posted on Jan, 19 2009 @ 02:02 PM
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Originally posted by TurinPT
1)Can religion help a society? How and why?
Sure it can, it enforces certain moral guidelines for those who couldn't think of it for themselves, not to mention the entertainment value of participating in religious rituals.
Even though people would still do good and bad in the absence of religion, the fear of Satan, hell or any other paranormal entities causes some of them to stick with the good side.

2)Can religion hurt a society? How and why?
Yes, it breeds ignorance. By accepting a religious belief as truth, we stop looking for answers, effectively stalling development.
Also, something that influences the populace as much as religion is bound to be exploited, people are willing to do anything if we convince them its what God wants.
Still, religion is just the medium, in the absence of religion these people would probably just try to find another way to manipulate the masses.

3)Do you have experiences of either?
Pure observation of our current society.
For the good, you have the countless number of people who do good in name of Religion.
Lots of examples for the bad, election speeches, evangelists, scientology, the stalling of stem cell and nanotechnology research, etc...


4)Is not the recent emphasis on SERVICE a result of the example of Martin Luther King and the Lord Jesus Christ?
What recent emphasis on service? not sure in what context you're talking about, too ambiguous.



1-3 Great answers, well thought-through!


4 All the SERVICE emphasis with the INAGURATION Activities with President-elect Obama's election...painting houses, feeding the poor etc...see here... boston.com...


and here... www.newsday.com...


OT says GREAT STUFF, huh?



posted on Jan, 19 2009 @ 02:06 PM
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Surely religions are important...
Good influence: Saving Western Civilization from muslim inavasion by organising I st Cruasade, spanish Reconquista etc.
Helping many peoples to survive wars, prisons, poverty...
Bad influence, I will mention the worst only: Jihad, Shariat, very ugly "islamic " music "atacking" West Culture...enough???



posted on Jan, 19 2009 @ 02:09 PM
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Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic

Originally posted by OldThinker
What do you mean in the last sentence about religion and community service? Is that not the reason for faith? To help people/society get better? Meet NEEDS?


I have no idea what the reason for "faith" is. I've been detached from religion for so long, I don't have any connection to why people practice it. But I do have a strong desire to make people/society better. Because I live here. I love people. I love my country. And helping us all get better is the right thing to do.



Also are you going to watch Glenn Beck tonight?


No. I have no desire to hear him. I do like the idea of unity, but I'm afraid it's a fantasy. People are too attached to their particular sects of religion to feel unity with other sects. Christians and Muslims feeling "unity"? Maybe a few of them, but not the majority.



Religion is STALE to me too...


Faith to me is a relationship with Christ....I try and live positively, helping others, etc...

Beck, however should be worth watching....1st night, new show tonight...5 or 6pm Eastern time....I think Osteen will impress the viewers...no pretense, just honestly....he has a neat story....no fanfair....was asked to preach after his father (pastor) died...and boy has the following grown....his INTERNATIONAL Church in Houston has done so much to benefit society....real humble young guy...

Thanks again for posting!

OT



posted on Jan, 19 2009 @ 02:26 PM
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Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic

Originally posted by OldThinker
What do you mean in the last sentence about religion and community service? Is that not the reason for faith? To help people/society get better? Meet NEEDS?


I have no idea what the reason for "faith" is. I've been detached from religion for so long, I don't have any connection to why people practice it. But I do have a strong desire to make people/society better. Because I live here. I love people. I love my country. And helping us all get better is the right thing to do.



Also are you going to watch Glenn Beck tonight?


No. I have no desire to hear him. I do like the idea of unity, but I'm afraid it's a fantasy. People are too attached to their particular sects of religion to feel unity with other sects. Christians and Muslims feeling "unity"? Maybe a few of them, but not the majority.



Also fyi...


The wives of the 2 border agents, jailed for the last two yrs (names escape me now) who were just PARDONED by George Bush a few hours ago...are being interviewed...should be wortha watch...huh?

OT



posted on Jan, 19 2009 @ 02:37 PM
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Originally posted by TurinPT

2)Can religion hurt a society? How and why?
Yes, it breeds ignorance. By accepting a religious belief as truth, we stop looking for answers, effectively stalling development.



It 'can'.... breed ignorance...but mostly, isn't faith a search for TRUTH? Isn't it about looking for the RIGHT answers?

OT



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