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The “No Hope, No Change” Cop Out

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posted on Jan, 19 2009 @ 12:22 PM
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So many great examples of cop outs!
I expected no less (and no more) of those of you who have answered negatively. Thanks for your examples.


I mean... what part of "Ask not what your country can do for you - ask what you can do for your country" do you not understand?



Originally posted by nyk537
Hmm..so the President isn't responsible then?


Yes he is. We ALL are. This isn't about Bush OR Obama, though. It's about me and you. It's about playing our part, doing our job for our community and our country. (Sounds like you're doing a great job! Thanks!)


Originally posted by redhead57
IF we would get our butts up and do something it is better than doing nothing. I can only hope he inspires people to do some of what I have mentioned and a hundred other things.


He has clearly inspired people to answer the call of service today. And I am going back at it tomorrow. It feels so good, I think I'll make it a regular thing.


While I was out, I saw a group of people cleaning up the local park and another group has put up flags for Martin Luther King day. I got such a great feeling of community and working together for ourselves and our country. Very cool!

Obama was setting a wonderful example today, too, by visiting wounded troops and helping renovate a shelter for homeless teenagers. Video Just think of what we could do if we all started reaching outside ourselves to make our communities and country better!


Originally posted by LowLevelMason
You know, I have tried really hard to believe you were not a paid Democrat operative.


Don't bother trying. I don't really care what you think.



Originally posted by redhead57
None of these things may mean much to some people, but I do what I can.


It means a lot to me.

5thElement, Great point and great post!




posted on Jan, 19 2009 @ 12:47 PM
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reply to post by Benevolent Heretic
 


I just find it a little odd that all these "do-gooders" who have suddenly decided that helping people is awesome since Obama won weren't out helping people before he won.

Nobody was making this big of a deal about community service and doing our own part before.

While Bush was President, we were looking to the government for help while the government told us to do it on our own. Now all of a sudden we have a President who talks about government being the ultimate solution to our problems, and we're supposed to start making things happen for ourselves.



posted on Jan, 19 2009 @ 12:55 PM
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Originally posted by nyk537
reply to post by Benevolent Heretic
 

I just find it a little odd that all these "do-gooders" who have suddenly decided that helping people is awesome since Obama won weren't out helping people before he won.
Nobody was making this big of a deal about community service and doing our own part before.


I'll provide the same answer as you would. You didn't talk about it until somebody (me) challenged you. Nor would I.

[edit on 19-1-2009 by JohnnyCanuck]



posted on Jan, 19 2009 @ 01:26 PM
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Originally posted by nyk537
I just find it a little odd that all these "do-gooders" who have suddenly decided that helping people is awesome since Obama won weren't out helping people before he won.


It is odd. And it's sad that many people never considered it. This has become a time of selfishness. People were comfy to sit in their houses and have the attitude of "me first".

Search "pay it forward" and you'll see that some of us did indeed talk about it when asked about it. But a lot of people in this country have gone inside themselves and forgotten that they are part of a community.


Obama's call to service is bringing them back out again. How can you complain about that?



Nobody was making this big of a deal about community service and doing our own part before.


Not to be smart, but so what? Can you argue that we need it now? Can you argue that we can do wonderful things if we get together with other people and pull ourselves up? Does it really matter what the past was like? Isn't this about our future? We can't change the past.



While Bush was President, we were looking to the government for help


Speak for yourself. I was not looking to the government for help.


Now all of a sudden we have a President who talks about government being the ultimate solution to our problems,


That's not true. I'm not going to argue about it, but he has never talked about the government being the ultimate solution to our problems. NEVER! Read the excerpts in my first post. READ MY FIRST POST instead of just skimming the title.



and we're supposed to start making things happen for ourselves.


Yes. We are responsible. You can do it or not. But the point of this thread is that people who are sitting back complaining about "no change" are just copping out. Putting the entire responsibility on Obama to "change" our lives is an excuse to not have to do anything ourselves. It's the ultimate cop out.



posted on Jan, 19 2009 @ 01:41 PM
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Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
but he has never talked about the government being the ultimate solution to our problems. NEVER! Read the excerpts in my first post. READ MY FIRST POST instead of just skimming the title.


Hmmm...


It is true that we cannot depend on government alone to create jobs or long-term growth, but at this particular moment, only government can provide the short-term boost necessary to lift us from a recession this deep and severe.

Only government can break the cycle that are crippling our economy -- where a lack of spending leads to lost jobs which leads to even less spending; where an inability to lend and borrow stops growth and leads to even less credit.


Source



posted on Jan, 19 2009 @ 01:47 PM
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Exactly. He never talked about government being the ultimate solution to our problems. He said government can provide the short term boost that we need. But they're not the ultimate solution to our problems. That's a VERY different statement.

Twisting his words is another way to cop out.



posted on Jan, 19 2009 @ 01:50 PM
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reply to post by Benevolent Heretic
 


No he said ONLY government can provide the boost we need. Only is a definitive statement BH. I'm not twisting his words at all.

Perhaps you'd also get further with this thread if you would stop accusing everyone who disagrees with you of "copping out".




posted on Jan, 19 2009 @ 01:51 PM
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I don't mind continuing my community service at all.Being of service to others is a higher calling it itself.However as a sign of good faith our government should "put up or shut up" All the billions of dollars a year that are set as foreign aid needs to be rerouted to the people of this country.
There are people in this country loseing everything they own.Why should they be asked to pick up more of the load to cover for a wasteful government?
The truest test of a leader is to "lead by example".Let our government show us how to properly use time and money to benifit our fellow citizens.



posted on Jan, 19 2009 @ 01:58 PM
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Originally posted by daddyroo45
Let our government show us how to properly use time and money to benefit our fellow citizens.


That's the saddest thing I've read in a long time.

God help us.



posted on Jan, 19 2009 @ 02:04 PM
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Well time will tell i suppose, found this article intersting though:

www.channel4.com...



Jon Snow reports on how Barack Obama's inauguration is suffused with references to the 16th President of the United States, Abraham Lincoln.

Lincoln who faced the Civil War, Lincoln who ended slavery and brought all the rivals for his office into his cabinet, as Obama has with Hilary Clinton and Joe Biden; Lincoln who followed President Buchannan who had bankrupted the country and failed to prevent a war.

The parallels are intriguing, but is Obama in danger of over-egging the connection?



[edit on 19-1-2009 by MCoG1980]



posted on Jan, 19 2009 @ 02:08 PM
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Originally posted by nyk537
No he said ONLY government can provide the boost we need. Only is a definitive statement


So is "ultimate solution" and he didn't say that.
If he had said, "Only government can solve all your problems" then I'd agree, but he didn't and you know that. He is talking about a VERY specific problem. The economy.



Perhaps you'd also get further with this thread if you would stop accusing everyone who disagrees with you of "copping out".


I didn't say that because you disagreed with me. I said that because you twisted Obama's words to make him out to be saying something he didn't. That's just another way to make him out to be something he's not. It's common here. And yes, it's a cop out. It's a lot harder to criticize him if you really listen to what he says and take him for his actual words instead of adding your own meaning.

And I don't really care how far I get with this thread, whatever that means. I've said my thoughts with the first post.



posted on Jan, 19 2009 @ 02:11 PM
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reply to post by Benevolent Heretic
 


I don't care if it's one specific problem or not, the words "only government" should never be said.

The power to right the economy, or any problem this country faces, lies with its people, not it's government.



posted on Jan, 19 2009 @ 02:19 PM
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Originally posted by nyk537
I don't care if it's one specific problem or not, the words "only government" should never be said.


That's just silly!



The power to right the economy, or any problem this country faces, lies with its people, not it's government.


So, 9/11 should have been handled by the people, I suppose.

This is far off topic and besides, it's not making any sense. So. I'm going to bow out of this particular line of discussion.



posted on Jan, 19 2009 @ 02:22 PM
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reply to post by nyk537
 


So it's your opinion that the government uses its time and our money wisely? That outlook is sad.Our government reminds me of the grasshopper in the story of the grasshopper and the ant.The grasshopper fiddles away his time while the ant(us) works his butt off to make a living.
We in the end support all the wasteful things our government does.You may be happy with the status quo,I am not! This government has something to prove to me.Tend to their business not ours(mine).



posted on Jan, 19 2009 @ 02:40 PM
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reply to post by Benevolent Heretic
 


Pretty slick, huh, BH?

This way he doesn't have to be responsible for his own words, typical con.



posted on Jan, 19 2009 @ 02:42 PM
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Originally posted by RFBurns
Just telling the poor cash strapped sheeple that he needs our help...
...can mean anything. It can mean he needs us to sacrifice even more of our non-exsistant funds, sacrifice more jobs and give them to overseas workers, give up our way of life...anything.

He keeps saying change. Yes we can...blah blah. Ok...how about being specific and to the point instead of this generalizing that sounds appealing to an already stressed out, tired and angry public that is easily swayed and convinced by simple sweetened words.

Lets see what his words are after the inauguration.




Cheers!!!!


We already know, he is already back peddling,

Due to circumstances,

blah, blah



posted on Jan, 19 2009 @ 02:43 PM
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Originally posted by nyk537I don't care if it's one specific problem or not, the words "only government" should never be said.

The power to right the economy, or any problem this country faces, lies with its people, not it's government.


I would say that in the context of the economy, the only thing that your people can do is "Buy American" (or in the car industry...North American...auto pact, all that) and/or lobby the government to keep some industry at home. Sure as hell stop sending your/our jobs overseas! Hell, the auto industry is sending work offshore from Mexico, because they find paying $2.00/hr too expensive. WTF? Otherwise...what is the average Joe gonna do about the economy? It is left to the government.



posted on Jan, 19 2009 @ 05:07 PM
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reply to post by nyk537
 


Not that we usually agree, but I have to call BS here. That's the same stuff they always say about liberals, but liberals are the ones who always create surplus in government. And contrary to what I've read on these boards, it is not Obama's fault that the economy is where it is today. If you disagree with the stimulus packages, you disagree with many democrats and republicans alike - certainly not just Obama.

Out of the past 40 years, the democrats have created surplus and the republicans increased debt.

[edit on 1/19/2009 by Irish M1ck]



posted on Jan, 20 2009 @ 01:34 AM
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Wow! I mean
. People have gotten so bloody jaded and lazy. Yes, there is a lot to be jaded about lately but not lazy. I for one will take heed. I wish to be an active part of the betterment of mine and my children's futures. I no longer want to be caught in the aforementioned group.



posted on Jan, 20 2009 @ 01:45 AM
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reply to post by Irish M1ck
 


Ahhh, the myth of the Clinton Surplus. You might want to check your facts. You'll notice that the deficit went up every year Clinton was president.

So let's see 8 years of Bush bashing, now Obama steps in says Government is the solution to our problems and now we all need to go along with it because Obama says so.



I help people out when I can and it is because I want too, not because some slick politicians comes along and says we need to because its the right thing to do.

I really don't know what else to say, but I find people trying to say oh now we all need to become compassionate and help people out after Obama gets elected.

All the Obama lovers are going to be in for a rude awakening. Believe me the past 8 years of Bush bashing is going to come back to haunt you greatly.

I just ask one thing. Remember when you get hard core opposition to Obama's idea's and people aren't going to go along with it. Don't blame it on those people, blame it on yourselves.

You have reaped what you have sown.





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