Today, I Realized Why America is Losing the War on Terror

very well written.

as anybody who is bottlenecked into the description of a conspiracy theorist knows, the police are not there to 'protect and serve' us anymore. not to say they do not protect, but the obvious slogan they should adopt is 'intimidate and align.' every action i have physically seen a police officer take has led me to the same mental conclusion: #ing #head.

they now operate to leave an impression. dont # with them. be a sniveling, apologetic wuss to them or theyll # you up. who here disagrees w me?

if you want to understand Afghanistan and the Taliban, then you must first read and study Caspian Sea geo politics and geo economics. This is where the answers lie; Petroluem, and how to get it out of the Caspian Sea Region. Its why Hitler tried to take Stanlingrad, why Russia Invaded Afghanistan, why we involved ourselves in the region. This History starts in the late 1800's, when This region was the largest petroluem producing area in the world, and today contains the 2nd largest known petroleum reserves. Religion and Terror are excuses, nobody would allow their children to die for Royal Dutch Shell or Exxon.
Where does the proposed pipeline run in Afghanistan ..where are proposed US military bases situated...its an ugly world.

Originally posted by lunarminer

My rights to habeus corpus, search and seizure limitations, wiretapping protections, none of that have changed.

You use the word " My rights " I can only assume that you mean, you have to the best of your knowledge not been subjected to an infringement of said rights. I am not sure how you would know if your phone or e-mail transaction have been monitored ?
Jose Padilla may tend to disagree with your whole Habeus Corpus prattle.
If the ONLY concern is YOUR rights......... well just give it a little time, we'll get around to you eventually.

I normally read all the posts first before replying.

But I couldn't because I was laughing so hard



The only reason the USA was attacked by terrorists was because of it's foreign policy and to be fair because of the geography of the planet the USA has gotten off fairly lightly until 9/11.

But lets think about it, the weapon of TERRORists is TERROR!
So while everyone is in fear then they are winning.

If all countries could just stop messing around with other countries spreading "freedom" and "democracy" then the world would be a safer and better place.

Once I have calmed down I will read all the other replies.

reply to post by sweatmonicaIdo


It's pretty simple, really. One cannot "win" a "war" against a mindset or an ideal, which is what terrorism is. Some might say that "terrorism" is actually the method, which it technically is, but one simply cannot win a "war" against something that is as inconcrete as that.

While ridding areas of "terrorists," "terrorists" get created. You bomb a guy's house and kill his family, he then becomes a "terrorist" because you destroyed his life. The more (innocent) people get killed, the more terrorists there are. Terrorism is created through terrorism, neither of which are likely to stop.

Might as well try to defeat racism. Good luck with that.

Originally posted by sweatmonicaIdo
Therefore, unlike many of the conspiracy theorists and opportunists on this board, I do not question the actions taken by our government and by our intelligence and law enforcement agencies to protect this city and our leaders.

What I do question, however, is their attitude. Every police officer and security personnel I encountered carried an air of incredibly high suspicion or even outright hostility, as well as what I saw as concerted efforts towards humiliating and intimidating people who simply may have not known any better or were just trying to cooperate as best they could. Even when asking for directions, it seems like a cop was more interested in determining some non-existent, ulterior motive as opposed to helping me or anybody else out get to work or wherever else they needed to go.

no kidding. I once tried to warn a police man on a horse in vancouver, or surrey, or richmond or somewhere- about something I felt was paramount. I don't remember what it was; a body or a bomb or a bomb plan. I only had those seconds away from my 'parents group'. He looked down at me glaring "What?!?". He may have even said, "Go Away."
I wouldn't have known what to have said anyways. He would have had to have asked a question, for me to be able to intelligently respond, anyways. If what was the question, coming out spitting with spite, it turned into a statement of hate as it left his mouth.

I don't remember the year or the instance. There were too many. Just the street and the crowd. Too many of those too.

I don't speak to cops that are as bad as gansters. Who can? Awareness of danger sets in. The policeman becomes as dangerous as the situation. And if that is the attitude they are giving they are doing the opposite of their function, unless their function is a successful act of violence carried out.

I am not questioning their methods.

I am. Not their deployment methods, or the fact that they need to keep their eyes up around them. But, if thier stance is 'do not approach me'-or of ridicule.... They can't protect anyone if they don't take the tips. They can't take the tips if they are unapproachable...or worse, just plain untrained.
Their very best methods can work against them.
Their fear and heightened awareness can transmit to others in an inappropriate way if they are not on top of their emotions.

An officer that can smile in danger can manage any situation. The people who he lent a moment too will return to him when they see something suspicious, instead of looking the other way and hoping someone else takes care of it because they are not going to approach that horse's * again. The same problems exist whether he is angered or suspiciously aware, but only one of them wins a greater likelyhood of a battle won.

I have always been very supportive of our law enforcement and intelligence agencies and if they decide deploying snipers on rooftops and four police cars every street block is the way to protect America, then fine so be it.

agreed.

But must they do their duty with such hostility towards the people they are sworn to protect? Must they intimidate and attempt to humiliate anyone who doesn't fit their mold of the "perfect citizen?" Is the task of protecting the American government and our president so incredibly sacred that they cannot even treat a person with courtesy and polity? I don't care if they scowl at me, a simple "best of luck on finding your way" would've made my day. Instead I spent the day cold, tired, and scared that a single twitch would lead to a trip to MEDSTAR Adult Trauma Center.

Again a smile.

This is not an indictment against all law enforcement officials either. Many that I ran into today were extremely courteous and professional. Respect them and they return the favor. Others, you have to make them feel guilty before they remember what they're really there for.

Good, maybe some of them will read this.

America is losing the war because we've let traumatic events dictate something as fundamental as how we treat our fellow countrymen. Do what we have to do to defend America, turn it into a fortress if we have to. But we shouldn't build fortresses around ourselves. When people say America lost its innocence on 9/11, they weren't kidding. Its time we look at ourselves in the mirror, at those we've hurt, and ask ourselves whether we're worth protecting. I don't know what the answer is anymore.

America was losing the war long before it ever personally got hit with 9/11.
9/11 might have been when it started to win though.

I was reading a politicians book, "Never Again". It says that crime databases were not even interconnected until the aftermath. I mean...humph-ya think? How do you find anyone.

War On Terror. Are you serious? Do you really believe these wars are about terrorism and preventing "them" from changing our lives? That was the popular propaganda several years ago. Once people had gotten bored with the whole "War on Terror" notion and thus begin to see the B.S in it, they try to focus our attention to Iran, North Korea, and etc, to convince us of their threatening nature, but no one cares, just another crusade, people are tired of war. Then they try to focus on Russia again, hoping it could reignite the old cold war tensions, bring back the good old days of fearing the Russians.

But since that didn't get the reaction the powers that be wanted, now we're on the economy, refocusing on Afhganistan, and hinting toward a collapse of our government that we now rally united by our "good lord, savior and messiah" of hope and change. He has become the perfect tool to bring the masses to their agenda again. So makes one think, who really are the terrorists? Them, or is it us? What a crock this all is and our own noble people are fighting and dying across the pond due to another agenda by the powers that be by convincing them and us it's for the cause of protecting liberty and freedom. What a dellusion those those two words are. Liberty and Freedom have always been there for us to take, but we just couldn't accept responsibility for it, so instead we allow our rights and freedoms to be given a longer leash then every one else, only to hang ourselves with, and demand the government to shorten it every time we tell them to cut us down, refusing to realize that we can easily remove it.

Our government wanted war and need the public to be approved of war willingly and they spent the mid to late 80s to throughout the 90's to butter us up, to make us believe that we wanted to invade those that could potentially be a threat. Patience and clever deliverence of messeges had to be executed to do this, since everyone was still feeling the effects of the Vietnam War. Whether the 9/11 attacks were planned or not, doesn't matter, (there are more than enough threads to argue the theories so I won't even go there) it was the spark that was needed to get the country to be on the same page as their agenda. We fell for the B.S, like we always do, and probably always will. War on Terror, War on Drugs, War on Guns, War on this, War on that, see a pattern? All smoke and mirrors, we're so easily manipulated that is it sad.

I think some of you people need to take a look at what terrorism is in first place.
en.wikipedia.org...
Then try to see the diferences between the antagonists..

No difference between a F-22 and a suicidebomber doing their job in bagdad. And what is a Israeli sniper called when he takes out a "target" -many many times an innocent child on playground- in Gaza? Is that terrorism? NO! Terror is when an arab is doing the killing.

And sure you feel free as long you are in favor of your governments.
Stasipeople felt free too, the nazis and Pinochets guys also felt free.

Besides you -your government- are not loosing any war you have allready lost billions of peoples respect.

reply to post by sweatmonicaIdo

The war on terror always seemed so silly to me.
It's an idea and a word. In action, terror is real,
and can materialize into planning and planting of
a bomb. But the word is so open ended and I
don't think we have seen the full definition of what
we call terrorism.

I feel that one day, just having a different view
than the government will be categorized as
terrorism. I hate Bush, with passion. Does that
make me a terrorist?! One day it may.

The word terrorism will evolve and be redefined
over the next decade. Wait and see.

Disagreeing with yourself doesn't exactly clarify your message.

First we had:

Originally posted by sweatmonicaIdo

Every police officer and security personnel I encountered carried an air of incredibly high suspicion or even outright hostility.

Then we had:

Many that I ran into today were extremely courteous and professional.

Make your mind up.

The war on terror is similar to the war on drugs in that it involves power and profit for the folks in high places of the present "civilized" world. If America were to withdraw completely from it's global interests pertaining to either drugs or terror, the powers that be would lose oodles of money.

This is not about conspiracy or paranoid delusions. This is common sense.

War is big money so as long as we in the US believe that forgoing our freedom is a small price to ensure that we are safe and secure. Additionally, if we think that by spending millions on resources to imprison Joe Bob the junkie whilst keeping our cocooned, PS3 playing children away from the scourge of drugs will keep our precious babies any safer then we will fork it on over... without question.

It is time for America... and the world... to wake up. Maybe in a thousand years or so we can move past this "WAR ON [ENTER YOUR PUTRID SCOURGE HERE]". For now, we must all learn to peacefully disobey. Abraham Lincoln said "you can't fool all the people all the time". He was right. I hope one day we can collectively become the guy in Tiananmen Square and are able to defy that tank of government control.

Having said all of this, I still believe that the majority of public servants are here to serve the public. There are a few bad apples [and even a few bad organizations] but I believe that the majority of our police officers would just as soon have uneventful shifts only to head home and catch up on their own little slices of life. I believe only a very small number of RoboCops hit the streets in hopes of getting to draw their weapons in the line of duty.

Originally posted by loam
reply to post by sweatmonicaIdo

 

Outstanding post and outstanding observations.

However, the truth is 'tone' is set from leadership. Fix that, and the rest would follow.

And there's the obigatory "it's basically all Bush's fault" BS.

Thanks for boiling it all down to just another Bush failure.
If Bush wasn't such a Nazi, the AG wouldn't be such a Nazi, the State AG and Assisitant AG and the Police Cheif of Boluxi wouldn't be such a Nazi.....
all rolls down hill right?

Yea, like you are going to change the attitudes and beliefs of your entire force just because someone else is in the White House.

That line of thinking just floors me, everyone is just a drone and the constant drumbeat of false flags has turned authorities into nazi american hating fascists! Thank goodnes we now have Obama who will infuse tolerance rainbows and love moonbeams into everyone!

Yea.. ok.

Thanks for that.


(note: I realize you actually didn't mention Bush.. but honestly that's what you were thinking no?)



******************************************


As for the OP, I respectfully think you are full of S***
I think you are either taking one or two events out of context or using this event as a way of remaking truth for your opinion.


1. Your post has nothing whatsoever to do with "Winning the war on terror"
Nothing AT ALL.

Even if your post were truthful, how does winning the war on terror encompasss authorities being nicer to the everyday man or not being as suspicious of everyone? How does a few bad attitudes equate?


2. I think you are a political shill.

I was there also, and will be tomorrow as well, and I saw none of the fear mongering public hating authority figures you saw and met with.. perhaps you were seeking them out? Or perhaps, more likely, one incident has transformed into "All".

I realize you are speaking to your own choir here and nothing I will ever say will sway anyone one way or another.. you'll just get a few hundred stars from your fellow "America Sucks" "kill the police" crowd and move on.

Personally I think you are part of the problem, not in the "troublemaker" sense I am all for individualism and doing what we want and when we want, but in the same sense as a fearmonger only in the opposite (but not good) direction.

I believe you are an exagerationist (new word do I get points for that?) someone who takes a sample and applies it to all to fit their own needs. Or at it's worst, someone who writes what other want desperately to hear and commisrate with and makes a non issue, a very big issue.



I'll give you points for making it seem like you were actually an insider (instead of the guy with "Staff" on the back of his shirt) and for pretending to be all for protecting America.


as for the "Instead I spent the day cold, tired, and scared that a single twitch would lead to a trip to MEDSTAR Adult Trauma Center. " comment, thats really lame bud and I have to totally call you out on that....


You're trying to give the impression that anyone not cookie cutter or "yes sir, no sir" will get broken and beaten, and if that were the case, they'd need a boatload of hospital rooms right in the midst of all those (thousands of) cameras..

Originally posted by craig732
It isn't just police officers that can be rude and unfriendly.

We all encounter rude people every day... store clerks, other drivers, etc.

Why should the police be any different than all the other rude people out there?

*Cough...A store clerk, other drivers etc, have not sworn a oath to uphold the laws, and to protect the citizenry even at their own peril. To be a policeman was once an extremely honorable profession, now it's just an ego trip. "To Serve and Protect", means just that to put oneself at the "Service" of others. Courtesy should not be too much to ask.

Secondly, MANY of the people here should read Orwells 1984. The perpetual war, the double speak, the false flag operations and more can be found in a very readable fashion. The book IS listed as fiction, but so closely mirrors todays international landscape I shudder when I read these comments.

What freedoms have you lost since 9/11. If you could only see the America I saw when I was growing up, and if you could compare that to the jackbooted military gulag, your great country is fast becoming you could not rationally ask that question.

thanks for reading.
..Ex

Originally posted by lightchild
I normally read all the posts first before replying.

But I couldn't because I was laughing so hard

The only reason the USA was attacked by terrorists was because of it's foreign policy and to be fair because of the geography of the planet the USA has gotten off fairly lightly until 9/11.

But lets think about it, the weapon of TERRORists is TERROR!
So while everyone is in fear then they are winning.

If all countries could just stop messing around with other countries spreading "freedom" and "democracy" then the world would be a safer and better place.

Once I have calmed down I will read all the other replies.

Exactly what I was thinking, mate. I'm probably showing of as a Brit now, but maintaining a stiff upper lip will always be a far better response to the terrorists than instilling yet another "war" on terror that is impossible to win, simply because that "war" is what the terrorists is looking for.

Originally posted by lightchild

The only reason the USA was attacked by terrorists was because of it's foreign policy and to be fair because of the geography of the planet the USA has gotten off fairly lightly until 9/11.

Thanks for making it sound like we deserved it.

If all countries could just stop messing around with other countries spreading "freedom" and "democracy" then the world would be a safer and better place.

You know what, you're right. The USA shouldn't have "messed around" when Germany attempted to eliminate British democracy by invading you in WWII.

Avoiding conflict certainly made the World a "safer and better place" for Neville Chamberlain though didn't it?

So basically every one who is in fear of oppression or dictatorial rule can go hang, what's that saying you people have "I'm alright Jack".

Originally posted by sweatmonicaIdo
I do not question the actions taken by our government and by our intelligence and law enforcement agencies


That'll get you into trouble.

Originally posted by cluckerspud
I feel that one day, just having a different view
than the government will be categorized as
terrorism. I hate Bush, with passion. Does that
make me a terrorist?! One day it may.

Yes.

If you're not with him, you're against him and so are the terrorists. Ergo...

Originally posted by v3_exceed
Secondly, MANY of the people here should read Orwells 1984. The perpetual war, the double speak, the false flag operations and more can be found in a very readable fashion. The book IS listed as fiction, but so closely mirrors todays international landscape I shudder when I read these comments.

Read up on what he was doing in his day job when he wrote that book (no he didn't write books full time) and you'll see that the book is more a documentary than fiction.

Originally posted by loam
reply to post by craig732

 

Because with increased public authority should come increased accountability and a materially different standard of care.

I don't want grumpy 'clerks' for my public officials.

Why do you?

[edit on 19-1-2009 by loam]

I never said I did want them... I was just making an observation. There are a lot of miserable people out there in all fields of work, not just law enforcement.

Maybe your looking at this the wrong way. Maybe this is a sign of things to come. Where the police or the law enforcement authority in question is going to start treating us all in this kind of negative manner. You know "kind of guilty until we are assumed innocent".
I have never been to anything that big, but have been to big events such as concerts where police and security forces where present. I did not get the "feeling" that you described. I always had that feeling that if I was in trouble or had a question that they were there for me. There were watchful of the crowd but not assuming.
I am taking a position from this day forward to follow MY instincts. I am listening with my ears and seeing with my eyes. I follow the Bible and am - what I describe as a "mind my own business" Christian women. I read a little in my Bible everyday. That has been a book I have always wanted to read recently it just reached out and grabbed me.
It's called be prepared.
But I have read about the Fema camps and I wonder what they have built them for. I have listened to the speeches and the promises and I do my own math.
I hear talk of the NWO and they all seem just a little bolder in coming out and speaking now. I hear talk of the "new constitution", which is something that was drawn up by Nixon and it all just makes my head shake.
It is so much bigger than Obama and terrorism and global warming and we sit and bicker about it.
That is what they want. Separation.
They want the guns to come out and for people to start fighting and killing each other over these things.
Sometimes it pays to step back and look at the forest.