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Is God Cruel or Just Misunderstood?

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posted on Jan, 19 2009 @ 11:53 AM
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reply to post by MatrixProphet
 


Not the end game.
End of the Fourth World.

Remove the 'Bible Lens' and view History for what it represents.

www.crystalinks.com...

Our Snake Dancer is the same as Ra smiting the Snake with his Staff...it represents the end of the human DNA experiment, namely killing the 'giants' and proclaimed 'gods' on earth...the 'fallen Angels.'




posted on Jan, 19 2009 @ 12:15 PM
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Genesis 15:5
...Look now toward heaven, and tell the stars, if thou be able to number them...
Genesis 22:17
...as the stars of the heaven...
Genesis 26:4
...to multiply as the stars of heaven...
Exodus 32:13
...as the stars of heaven...
Deuteronomy 1:10
The LORD your God hath multiplied you, and, behold, ye [are] this day as the stars of heaven for multitude.
Deuteronomy 4:19
And lest thou lift up thine eyes unto heaven, and when thou seest the sun, and the moon, and the stars, [even] all the host of heaven...
Deuteronomy 10:22
...the LORD thy God hath made thee as the stars of heaven for multitude.
Deuteronomy 28:62
...whereas ye were as the stars of heaven for multitude...
Judges 5:20
They fought from heaven; the stars in their courses fought against Sisera.
1 Chronicles 27:23
...to the stars of the heavens....
Nehemiah 9:23
...as the stars of heaven...
Job 22:12
[Is] not God in the height of heaven? and behold the height of the stars, how high they are?
Psalms 8:3
When I consider thy heavens, the work of thy fingers, the moon and the stars...
Isaiah 13:10
For the stars of heaven and the constellations thereof shall not give their light: the sun shall be darkened in his going forth, and the moon shall not cause her light to shine.
Isaiah 14:13
...I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God...
Ezekiel 32:7
And when I shall put thee out, I will cover the heaven, and make the stars thereof dark; I will cover the sun with a cloud, and the moon shall not give her light.
Daniel 8:10
And it waxed great, [even] to the host of heaven; and it cast down [some] of the host and of the stars to the ground, and stamped upon them.
Joel 2:10
The earth shall quake before them; the heavens shall tremble: the sun and the moon shall be dark, and the stars shall withdraw their shining:
Nahum 3:16
...above the stars of heaven...
Matthew 24:29
Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
Mark 13:25
And the stars of heaven shall fall, and the powers that are in heaven shall be shaken.
Revelation 6:13
And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.
Revelation 12:1
And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars...
Revelation 12:4
And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth...
Ecclesiasticus 43:9
The beauty of heaven, the glory of the stars, an ornament giving light...
2 Maccabees 9:10
And the man, that thought a little afore he could reach to the stars of heaven
Wisdom of Solomon 13:2
But deemed either fire, or wind, or the swift air, or the circle of the stars, or the violent water, or the lights of heaven, to be the gods which govern the world.
Prayer of Azariah 1:13
...as the stars of heaven...
Prayer of Azariah 1:41
O ye stars of heaven, bless ye the Lord: praise and exalt him above all for ever.
Jeremiah 4:16
...watchers come from a far country...
Daniel 4:17
This matter [is] by the decree of the watchers, and the demand by the word of the holy ones: to the intent that the living may know that the most High ruleth in the kingdom of men


Boogyman and Santa are not real people.

God and Heaven....hehehe.

God is a MAN !
Heaven is Space.
Not some invisible fantasy land where there are rivers of chocolate.



posted on Jan, 19 2009 @ 12:22 PM
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Disclaimer: I'm a theist but not of the Abrahamic faiths. I have minor biblical scholar and scriptural skills. Also I am not a scientific/legal or medical expert in any field. Beware of my Contagious Memes! & watch out that you don't get cut on my Occams razor.All of this is my personal conjecture and should not be considered the absolute or most definitive state of things as they really are. Use this information at your own risk! I accept no liability if your ideology comes crashing down around you with accompanying consequences!

Explanation: Nice thread MP. Starred and Flagged.

Since I don't subscribe to the Abrahamic faiths or any of those faiths religious texts or doctrines as having any merit or basis in reality, but have had personal experience with an entity I perceive as being godlike, I will then only talk about my experience with this godlike entity.

I perceive my godlike entity to be highly capricious and as I have no religious text to guide me, I'm sorta winging it! At the moment its sorta tit for tat....she devours a little of me [vampiric and cannibal
] and that seems to keep her satisfied and then when I'm just about kaput, I ritually devour a bit of her and that keeps me going for a while.

Personal Disclosure: Go get your own GOD.....This one is MINE!!!!

I have no problem "worshiping"/"serving" a capricious GOD/DESS just as the cult of Thugee had no problem "worshiping"/"serving" a murderous and destructive KALI and the ancient Hebrews had no problem "worshiping"/"serving" a wrathful YHVH or the Greeks and Romans "worshiping"/"serving" a warlike Aries/Mars. Why is a 21st Century CE GOD required by the public at large to have a biased (towards good etc) moral standing when history has shown many many GOD's in ancient history did not fulfill this human requirement and it didn't seem to stop them from using humans as playthings....just like my 2 ADULT and fully SANE bro's did recently by buying a fully LEGAL (at least here in Australia) child's equivalent of a animal (in this case insects) fighting ring (a transparent mesh hut with resealable plastic lid (NO I'm Not Joking ...see HERE!) and proceeded to capture and pit various living things against each other to the death for their personal entertainment. Ahhhhh So below as it is above!



posted on Jan, 19 2009 @ 12:24 PM
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reply to post by Tesla401
 

What?
Can you elaborate please. I must have missed something!




posted on Jan, 19 2009 @ 12:31 PM
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While I am feeling chatty, I would have to agree with King Solomon.

Wisest man, gifted from God with knowledge....

Who says this:

---Wisdom of Solomon 14:15
For a father afflicted with untimely mourning, when he hath made an image of his child soon taken away, now honoured him as a god, which was then a dead man, and delivered to those that were under him ceremonies and sacrifices.
---Wisdom of Solomon 14:16
Thus in process of time an ungodly custom grown strong was kept as a law, and graven images were worshipped by the commandments of kings.
---Wisdom of Solomon 14:17
Whom men could not honour in presence, because they dwelt far off, they took the counterfeit of his visage from far, and made an express image of a king whom they honoured, to the end that by this their forwardness they might flatter him that was absent, as if he were present.
---Wisdom of Solomon 14:18
Also the singular diligence of the artificer did help to set forward the ignorant to more superstition.
---Wisdom of Solomon 14:19
For he, peradventure willing to please one in authority, forced all his skill to make the resemblance of the best fashion.
---Wisdom of Solomon 14:20
And so the multitude, allured by the grace of the work, took him now for a god, which a little before was but honoured.
---Wisdom of Solomon 14:21
And this was an occasion to deceive the world: for men, serving either calamity or tyranny, did ascribe unto stones and stocks the incommunicable name.
---Wisdom of Solomon 14:22
Moreover this was not enough for them, that they erred in the knowledge of God; but whereas they lived in the great war of ignorance, those so great plagues called they peace.
---Wisdom of Solomon 14:23
For whilst they slew their children in sacrifices, or used secret ceremonies, or made revellings of strange rites;
---Wisdom of Solomon 14:24
They kept neither lives nor marriages any longer undefiled: but either one slew another traiterously, or grieved him by adultery.
---Wisdom of Solomon 14:25
So that there reigned in all men without exception blood, manslaughter, theft, and dissimulation, corruption, unfaithfulness, tumults, perjury,
---Wisdom of Solomon 14:26
Disquieting of good men, forgetfulness of good turns, defiling of souls, changing of kind, disorder in marriages, adultery, and shameless uncleanness.
---Wisdom of Solomon 14:27
For the worshipping of idols not to be named is the beginning, the cause, and the end, of all evil.
---Wisdom of Solomon 14:28
For either they are mad when they be merry, or prophesy lies, or live unjustly, or else lightly forswear themselves.
---Wisdom of Solomon 14:29
For insomuch as their trust is in idols, which have no life; though they swear falsely, yet they look not to be hurt.
Worship not an Idol of a dead man. The Idol of Christianity is the Cross, and the slain Jesus upon it. The fact of resurrection is the Deceit of the World. We do not rise from the Dead.


In case you missed it...---Wisdom of Solomon 14:18
Also the singular diligence of the artificer did help to set forward the ignorant to more superstition.

That is Jesus he is talking about, and how the Ignorant follow the bs of the Church.

I am not the kind to repeat myself....

But...God is a MAN people ! A MAN.

Our father, our creator, our ancestor, a distant relative...a MAN. As is a human.
Angels are MEN.
MAN...man, man, man, man, lol.
Comprende?



posted on Jan, 19 2009 @ 12:56 PM
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The Angels killing Giants and the 'Renegade Angels'

Genesis 28:12
And he dreamed, and behold a ladder set up on the earth, and the top of it reached to heaven: and behold the angels of God ascending and descending on it.
2 Samuel 24:17
...he saw the angel that smote the people...
2 Kings 19:35
...the angel of the LORD went out, and smote in the camp of the Assyrians an hundred fourscore and five thousand: and when they arose early in the morning, behold, they [were] all dead corpses
1 Chronicles 21:12
...the angel of the LORD destroying throughout all the coasts of Israel...
1 Chronicles 21:27
And the LORD commanded the angel; and he put up his sword again into the sheath thereof.
2 Chronicles 32:21
And the LORD sent an angel, which cut off all the mighty men of valour...they that came forth of his own bowels slew him there with the sword.
Isaiah 37:36
Then the angel of the LORD went forth, and smote in the camp of the Assyrians a hundred and fourscore and five thousand: and when they arose early in the morning, behold, they [were] all dead corpses.
Zechariah 2:3
And, behold, the angel that talked with me went forth, and another angel went out to meet him,
Mark 13:27
And then shall he send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven.
Mark 13:32
But of that day and [that] hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father
2 Corinthians 11:14
And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.
Hebrews 2:5
For unto the angels hath he not put in subjection the world to come, whereof we speak.
2 Peter 2:4
For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast [them] down to hell, and delivered [them] into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment;



posted on Jan, 19 2009 @ 01:01 PM
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Originally posted by Greenize

I will be the first to admit that the Bible confuses me!


Thank you! You and me both. When I was religious I would ask all the same questions that everyone else does. For a book to be divinely written, reading it at face value, why wouldn't it answer these questions successfully?

Although I believe it to have had some divine direction, I believe it to be for entirely different reasons and an entirely different message.

Thanks!



posted on Jan, 19 2009 @ 01:04 PM
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Genesis 6:4
There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare [children] to them, the same [became] mighty men which [were] of old, men of renown.
Numbers 13:33
And there we saw the giants, the sons of Anak, [which come] of the giants: and we were in our own sight as grasshoppers, and so we were in their sight.
Deuteronomy 2:11
Which also were accounted giants, as the Anakims; but the Moabites call them Emims.
Deuteronomy 2:20
(That also was accounted a land of giants: giants dwelt therein in old time; and the Ammonites call them Zamzummims;
Deuteronomy 3:11
For only Og king of Bashan remained of the remnant of giants; behold, his bedstead [was] a bedstead of iron; [is] it not in Rabbath of the children of Ammon? nine cubits [was] the length thereof, and four cubits the breadth of it, after the cubit of a man.
Deuteronomy 3:13
And the rest of Gilead, and all Bashan, [being] the kingdom of Og, gave I unto the half tribe of Manasseh; all the region of Argob, with all Bashan, which was called the land of giants.
Joshua 12:4
And the coast of Og king of Bashan, [which was] of the remnant of the giants, that dwelt at Ashtaroth and at Edrei,
Joshua 13:12
All the kingdom of Og in Bashan, which reigned in Ashtaroth and in Edrei, who remained of the remnant of the giants: for these did Moses smite, and cast them out.
Joshua 15:8
And the border went up by the valley of the son of Hinnom unto the south side of the Jebusite; the same [is] Jerusalem: and the border went up to the top of the mountain that [lieth] before the valley of Hinnom westward, which [is] at the end of the valley of the giants northward:
Joshua 17:15
And Joshua answered them, If thou [be] a great people, [then] get thee up to the wood [country], and cut down for thyself there in the land of the Perizzites and of the giants, if mount Ephraim be too narrow for thee.
Joshua 18:16
And the border came down to the end of the mountain that [lieth] before the valley of the son of Hinnom, [and] which [is] in the valley of the giants on the north, and descended to the valley of Hinnom, to the side of Jebusi on the south, and descended to Enrogel,
2 Samuel 21:16
And Ishbibenob, which [was] of the sons of the giant, the weight of whose spear [weighed] three hundred [shekels] of brass in weight, he being girded with a new [sword], thought to have slain David.
2 Samuel 21:18
And it came to pass after this, that there was again a battle with the Philistines at Gob: then Sibbechai the Hushathite slew Saph, which [was] of the sons of the giant.
2 Samuel 21:20
And there was yet a battle in Gath, where was a man of [great] stature, that had on every hand six fingers, and on every foot six toes, four and twenty in number; and he also was born to the giant.
2 Samuel 21:22
These four were born to the giant in Gath, and fell by the hand of David, and by the hand of his servants.
1 Chronicles 20:4
And it came to pass after this, that there arose war at Gezer with the Philistines; at which time Sibbechai the Hushathite slew Sippai, [that was] of the children of the giant: and they were subdued.
1 Chronicles 20:6
And yet again there was war at Gath, where was a man of [great] stature, whose fingers and toes [were] four and twenty, six [on each hand], and six [on each foot]: and he also was the son of the giant.
1 Chronicles 20:8
These were born unto the giant in Gath; and they fell by the hand of David, and by the hand of his servants.
Job 16:14
He breaketh me with breach upon breach, he runneth upon me like a giant.
Baruch 3:26
There were the giants famous from the beginning, that were of so great stature, and so expert in war.
Ecclesiasticus 16:7
He was not pacified toward the old giants, who fell away in the strength of their foolishness.
1 Maccabees 3:3
So he gat his people great honour, and put on a breastplate as a giant, and girt his warlike harness about him, and he made battles, protecting the host with his sword.
Wisdom of Solomon 14:6
For in the old time also, when the proud giants perished, the hope of the world governed by thy hand escaped in a weak vessel, and left to all ages a seed of generation.



posted on Jan, 19 2009 @ 01:09 PM
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reply to post by Tesla401
 



Only a small number of people were able to climb up from their secret hiding places and emerge into the Fourth World. Legends reveal the Grand Canyon is where these people emerged. From there they began their search for the homes the Two Brothers intended for them.

These few were the Hopi Indians that now live on the Three Mesas of northeastern Arizona.


Very interesting concept. I live in an area of many Native Americans and am privileged to hear their stories or truths.

I think that when we peel away the onion there are many similarities to what many civilizations teach. Thank you for sharing!



posted on Jan, 19 2009 @ 01:13 PM
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reply to post by OmegaLogos
 



Why is a 21st Century CE GOD required by the public at large to have a biased (towards good etc) moral standing when history has shown many many GOD's in ancient history did not fulfill this human requirement and it didn't seem to stop them from using humans as playthings...


Very good point! It is true, but then again, we are just lemmings! I think that we all truly have a hard time with this concept. We are narcissistic, after all!



posted on Jan, 19 2009 @ 01:14 PM
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To my point.

God is a MAN...a HUMAN.

Repopulated the SAME planet.

Angels are man.

Not boogyman...
Not invisible fairlyland Heaven...



posted on Jan, 19 2009 @ 01:22 PM
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reply to post by Tesla401
 



In case you missed it...---Wisdom of Solomon 14:18
Also the singular diligence of the artificer did help to set forward the ignorant to more superstition.

That is Jesus he is talking about, and how the Ignorant follow the bs of the Church.

I am not the kind to repeat myself....

But...God is a MAN people ! A MAN.

Our father, our creator, our ancestor, a distant relative...a MAN. As is a human.
Angels are MEN.
MAN...man, man, man, man, lol.
Comprende?


While I agree with some of what you are saying...Church being used to dupe the masses, yes! Read some of my other threads at the bottom of my post (just click on whichever one) to see that I am a heretic to many on ATS.

I differ where it comes to God - perhaps because I have had so much attention from them!


Mine has not been elusive or man-made, but of very overt interference and never fits the fairy dust version!

[edit on 19-1-2009 by MatrixProphet]



posted on Jan, 19 2009 @ 01:29 PM
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reply to post by MatrixProphet
 


My point was oral traditions and how the Hopi Religion is IDENTICAL to Sumerian Religion. Amazing how ORALLY this has survived.

In ALL religions, God comes from the sky in a craft.

Early man wrote what he knew...they did not write/carve love stories and fantasy novels...they wrote the truth as they knew it.

They did not float through space, come across our planet and say hey, I can make that ape into a sentient being. NO.

THEY, as in 'Angels' and 'God' are original man who originated from this SAME planet.

A tainted repopualtion attempt gone bad. (i am grateful for life. i am grateful to know an existance as an 'amoeba living in a thin layer of moss on a chunk of rock')

Genesis 6:7
And the LORD said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth; both man, and beast, and the creeping thing, and the fowls of the air; for it repenteth me that I have made them.

Mad tried to play 'God' by re-creating man in his 'own image.'

God is MAN.
Angels are MAN.
Bible is MAN.



posted on Jan, 19 2009 @ 01:37 PM
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Let me put it to you THIS way....

And I hope it helps....

First World : MAN
Second World : MAN
Third World : MAN
Fourth World : MAN (this is our life, and our world today, as we are living in the Fourth World...we are about to enter the Fifth World)
Fifth World : MAN
???

When I say God is MAN, I mean God is MAN.

Such is the 'Great Lie' of Man...and the Suppression thereof.



posted on Jan, 19 2009 @ 01:47 PM
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reply to post by Tesla401
 



Early man wrote what he knew...they did not write/carve love stories and fantasy novels...they wrote the truth as they knew it.

They did not float through space, come across our planet and say hey, I can make that ape into a sentient being. NO.

THEY, as in 'Angels' and 'God' are original man who originated from this SAME planet.

A tainted repopualtion attempt gone bad. (i am grateful for life. i am grateful to know an existance as an 'amoeba living in a thin layer of moss on a chunk of rock')




Yes, I truly understood everything you were saying! It's not that deep!!


But I respect your views as I do all my atheist friends on ATS and in life. My perspective as you can probably imagine...is different than yours. Just as you are glad, I can say the same.

We do both agree on the state of mans religions and religious books. I just happen to think that there is more method to the madness than you are teaching. We can agree to disagree!!



posted on Jan, 19 2009 @ 05:38 PM
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Ok here goes first of all the old testament is an incomplete collection this is evident in the fact that the torah has more books in it than the OT. I am sure there must have been many more books in the New Testament as well but they were discarded by the Romans when Christianity became there national religion.
It is also important to establish that there are two creations described in geneses. The first story of creation is the 7 days where a group of gods called Elohim created everything including man and women. Elohim is a plural word for God but different from the Hebrew word used to describe other gods. The second story is the creation of the Garden of Eden and the creation of Adam by Jehovah (YHVH) the god worshiped by the Jews and Christians.
I believe that pretty much all of what you said above is true for the direct descendents of Adam but we as gentiles are not descendant from Adam. We were created during the first story of creation. More proof of the two creations is Cain the son of Adam. Cain killed Able and was cast out into the land of Nod. But he found a wife there and his people thrived and became some of the great tribes that the Israelites killed off when they took the land of Canaan.
And now for the history of the book it’s self. The bible was written by man but god helped. However over time it was changed. For some of the reasons mentioned things where left out. And things where misinterpreted for the “greater good of the people” as most of the text was at that time in oral form. The result is that what ended up being written down latter at the time may have been completely different. Then add in the latter translating for whatever means and the downright trial that the Romans held to determine what books should be in the bible.
Now was god cruel? Maybe or maybe we don’t know the whole story. I think that would be the case. Why would god let 9/11 happen? Well I believe all things have a purpose and all things are predestined to happen so those people where meant to die for whatever reason that’s the way the coin toss fell for them. It opened our eyes to a lot of things. I do regret that it happened and would trade my life for theirs if I could but it was not in the cards for me.


[edit on 19/1/09 by redwolf.of.odin]



posted on Jan, 19 2009 @ 06:16 PM
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reply to post by redwolf.of.odin
 



Now was god cruel? Maybe or maybe we don’t know the whole story. I think that would be the case. Why would god let 9/11 happen? Well I believe all things have a purpose and all things are predestined to happen so those people where meant to die for whatever reason that’s the way the coin toss fell for them. It opened our eyes to a lot of things. I do regret that it happened and would trade my life for theirs if I could but it was not in the cards for me.


Yes, and why did he let millions die in concentration camps? It could be that their time was up, like I said in the OP. Their inherited sin debt was due.

But I also will add: how often are we caught up into something because our senses were not in tip top shape? I think that this is where fate loses balance. If our senses are fine tuned we can avoid some negative consequences.



posted on Jan, 21 2009 @ 06:37 PM
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To me its either misunderstood or non-existant. People deposit many expectations on that entity, totally unfunded because the only evidence of God being good can be found on some books on some religions, books of dubious procedence at least.
Maybe if people stopped asking God for things, or being angry towards it when it doesn't delivers them, they would get up and do things for themselves to make a this a better world.



posted on Jan, 21 2009 @ 06:59 PM
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reply to post by seb2882
 



Maybe if people stopped asking God for things, or being angry towards it when it doesn't delivers them, they would get up and do things for themselves to make a this a better world.


Yes, I think this is true also. I just ask for him to show me. "Write it in the sky." I don't ask, beg, solicitous, order, control him in my communication any longer. Just show me what to do.

He depends on us using our gray cells and the logic given to us. Beyond that, He comes in handy! I have had tremendous proof of his existence but much more when I left orthodoxy behind.



posted on Jan, 25 2009 @ 09:44 PM
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Seems you're caught in the psychological trap of anthropomorphizing God.

as in.. you're trying to see "God" as a "person".

"objective good" in it's essence is anything striving toward the highest ideals of perfection.

"objective evil" is anything animalistic.

"God" is everywhere. ... even within yourself.


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