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Is God Cruel or Just Misunderstood?

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posted on Jan, 18 2009 @ 02:46 PM
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Is he cruel or indifferent? This is what I think is the more accurate question. If one takes the Bible as a template for God and his personality, we are being short changed! So it brings up the question: does God care? It is the job of priests to use fairy dust to temporarily heal a parishioner. But it doesn't last, and it often creates great anger against God!

Here on ATS and in most situations there are generally only three possibilities:

God is cruel as the OT shows and hence, does not deserve attention. So if this is God, and this is who he is, then I don’t believe he exists. A real God would not be this way. So science is the only explanation. Or…

God is a super underachiever who twiddles his thumbs – plays the remote control of our lives, and doesn’t listen to our prayers anyway, but sits back and does nothing. Or…

He’s a mean perfectionist that requires one to obey all of his Biblical (fill in the blank book) laws, and if you go astray you will not receive his blessings, nor go to heaven, but will end up in hell, or at least shunned by him, or re-incarnate into something undesirable.

I wish to throw in a fourth option! In doing this I am not defending God or any of heavenly congress. They don’t need it, nor are they codependent. I am only giving my viewpoint and experience with him/them. It may be easier to do it in story form:

“In the beginning there were Gods that belonged to a hierarchy of rulers in the cosmos. These Gods were each given their areas of supremacy. Each could do with their realms as they chose.

Jah (or fill in the blank - God of your choice) decided to create the heavens and the earth. He had lesser gods that fulfilled their roles as well, some of them – dual roles. Being a new ruler and eventual new parent, He decided to create man. His goal being; to eventually derive at a superior being that could be used as a template for future civilizations, and in this he needed to work out the kinks. After all, this was his first experiment, and humans are the testing ground.

All the Gods in his organization decided to make a Game or contest of it. In this contest he would consider many options. He would put his finger into the creative process with the designing the first human couple But…this wasn’t his only option. He could also utilize another creative idea and that would be to; help man evolve through natural selection. In the first, he would be more involved in the outcome. In the latter he would leave it up to time and a natural process, that some would call; chance. We as humans would not know for a fact which he chose, or even if he chose both avenues!

Early on, the Gods made a consensus that “free will” would be necessary in order to allow man to make his own mistakes and to see how this would affect future generations. “We will throw the dice and see what turns up! Let’s see what man does with his free will and what he imposes on others. Let’s give them a head start and give them the choice in something simple. We will install a fruit tree in their garden telling them to not eat of it, of course we suspect that they won’t be able to resist, but it will get the dice rolling. Our goal is to not produce automatons, so in this they must have choice, and we must create a scenario that gives them that. Eventually, we will achieve what we want. The clause being: there will be cause and effect, choices and consequences. There will need to be a limit to their free will; otherwise, this experiment of ours could end rather quickly!”

To help mankind along a little further, they decided to create some Holy Books. It became very evident soon after when; the humans wanted rules imposed on them, as they weren’t so comfortable with healthy individual choice. So the Gods obliged them with hundreds of rules. They made these rules next to impossible to obey, in order for them to see the foolishness of their ways. But man wouldn’t have it! They then decided to worship these rules and to make them their life. In order to control those around them, and gain access to power.

The Gods watched.

So in keeping with the Game, the Gods helped the writings along by allowing humans to tell their stories and to orally pass them on. Eventually, these stories were nothing like the originals but this is what man wanted. Man wanted to believe that God would burn people in hell and developed high requirements to go to heaven, both being figments of their imaginations.

None of this establishing and progression of humankind was done frivolously. At the very inception, the Gods placed a time limit on the evolving of man and society. They didn’t need an eternity, just enough time to work out the kinks and to see the best ways to deal with man. After all, this was only the beginning and not the entire picture.

In order to allow free will in its basic sense, they needed to do as little interference as possible. In this they would look irresponsible or even cruel, but it couldn’t be avoided, if this test was going to work. These Gods quickly learned that although most of mankind would act like sheep, not all would! It was with those that showed gumption, tenacity and non-conformance that continued to get the Gods attention. The rest…oh well!

Science would play a major role in all of the cosmos and it would be no exception with humans. Later, humans would adapt and would use their gray cells to discover all the many levels of science. Humans learned about DNA and how they could actually inherit the sins of their fathers.

How many children come into the world inheriting the sins of their fathers and end up being psychopathic murderers to serial killers? If a good mental health professional (working with real sick individuals) can easily put 2 + 2 together to = a sociopath, then wouldn't God have the ability to see that if two of the sickest produce a child, that the odds are; that the child will environmentally inherit their disease, if not biologically inherit their tendencies? Why wouldn't he abort these pregnancies before fruition? Alcoholism can be an inherited disease. Why doesn't he stop this genetic problem? Or prevent the births of future addicts? Because it would interfere with the natural evolution of man.

The Gods would allow man to pass down their defects and assets and even conditioned it so, with the human cell. This would create traits and dysfunction that would create a history of problems; again… a short lived one in their eyes. For their time works differently.

In all of this, the Gods would be watching and searching out individuals who went against the tide, those who would stand out as different. In reality, God can be loving and at the same time; indifferent.

They would let man fall into error and die. Their energy would then go back to the Source and would be passed down to a future lemming. This energy, spirit, or soul wouldn’t become pure, but would remain as it was when it left the last body.

It can be likened to a savings account, where a genetic virus or sin debt accumulates and has for millenniums. Humans have reached an energy level that is over-drafted. When the debt is due because of sin overdraft, the existing person whether they be child, or adult, is liable for the debt, regardless of who they are as people. The debt is due and has run its course. This is why bad things happen to good people!

Some of them would inherit better energy while others would not, and would suffer their predecessor’s defects. It would be a natural selection that would produce natural results. It would in its natural science - keep nature in balance.

With free will, man would be given a choice. “Does he want to be a casualty or the exception?” The consequences of free will are that; God cannot protect us from ourselves; it has nothing to do with God. Some would inherit too much defective life energy and would not be given this chance. Again, the natural laws of the universe. The Gods may actually have a plan for these unfortunates, but it is not for humans to know this for sure. Not yet.

This brings up another question: like most parents, does he also have favorites, or at least ones he relates to, more than others?

So the Game has been drawing to a close and the Gods are becoming more active. They begin to make known their thoughts and to step up mankind’s evolution. Cause and effect are in full speed. It is time to wind things down, time to go to the next level.

“Enough of man’s laws, disorder, and chaos. Enough of man controlling man and abusing their power. And to think! Man actually thinks he is going to take over the world? We will bring an end to systems that control and govern over man’s conscience. Most will act like gerbils trying to crawl up and over their peers to get to the top. But it won’t work. We will bring into account the sickness of man that we have allowed to reign, and will look for those who don’t fit in their land.”

“We will make much more knowledge available to those who care to search, question, and find these truths. The answers will be there, in all fields of knowledge. Those who want to access our divine order and love will do so. We’re in the End Game now!”




posted on Jan, 18 2009 @ 03:00 PM
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Interesting thoughts MP!

I am going to have to digest this a little, maybe even give it another read... lots of food for thought, Good post.



posted on Jan, 18 2009 @ 03:02 PM
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Thank you! I just tried U2Uing you and it was flooded. So you got to it quickly!

Thank you for your response!



posted on Jan, 18 2009 @ 03:43 PM
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It certainly is an interesting theory.

I think that God has gotten a bad rap period! The bible is the book that I am the most familiar with having read that thing several times. I have some limited understanding of others spiritual texts, but not much.

The god that is described in the pages of the Bible IMHO is an excuse for the genocide of the people of Canaan, remember Jericho, the abuse and domination of women, and the slavery of the "gentiles". If that is God, I want no part of it.

I believe that we are each part of the spark of light and love that is god. We come to this realm to gain a fuller understanding of life, love, fear, hate and whatever else it takes to understand humanity. I believe that we each through many lives have been good, evil, loving, kind, cruel, oppressors and oppressed.

I also believe that we are not recipients of harsh judgment after we pass to the realm of spirit, our original state, but instead have the opportunity to evaluate what we learned.

Man has abused man and used so called "holy books" to cause harm and division on this planet, and very little good. I do not believe we are the only creations nor that we are the first, but just one more little outpost in this vast universe.

Your post was very thoughtful I can tell you put much effort and thought into it and am very glad that more and more people are opening up to the truth.



posted on Jan, 18 2009 @ 03:49 PM
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reply to post by redhead57
 


Excellent thoughts!

If the OT speaks of god, I too want no part of it, You make a good point that it could have just been an excuse to literally get away with murder.

I am still thinking on this, trying to put my thoughts in order.. I would like to read more responses.



posted on Jan, 18 2009 @ 04:27 PM
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At first, I thought it was Cruel, but I am not so sure now. I think it is men who are cruel.

Like it may sound cruel that God removes us from the garden. But in reality, it was done to protect the life that is not evil.

Take the story of the tower of babel. When I first heard that story, I thought - these people who confused our language are evil and just trying to keep us enslaved. Not so.

See, the people who built the tower were united under 1 language and culture. That is the reason they got along and worked together. Sounds evil to break that up. However, if we had been allowed to go back into the garden/universe, then as soon as we had come across beings of another language and culture, we would have tried to enslave and war with them.

This is proven by our own actions after the languages and cultures happen. Because we didn't share these things, we started to war with each other over our differences. If we can learn to get along with people of multiple cultures and languages on earth, then perhaps we can do it among those who aren't like us. So once again it was done to protect that which is not evil in the garden/universe.

Other stuff I don't know. It seems to me like there are multiple gods in the OT. There is the god/prince of this world, and then there is the true god/father. But I think it is important for us to realize - we are evil.



posted on Jan, 18 2009 @ 04:33 PM
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The (ET - Annunaki) God of the Bible Was a very cruel being, ripe with murder, genocide, and destruction. Read it for yourself...The Bible is ripe with these sorts of things. I know the religious types will jump all over this, but it's the truth, whether one likes it or not.



posted on Jan, 18 2009 @ 04:35 PM
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Thank you so much! We agree:


Man has abused man and used so called "holy books" to cause harm and division on this planet, and very little good. I do not believe we are the only creations nor that we are the first, but just one more little outpost in this vast universe.

Your post was very thoughtful I can tell you put much effort and thought into it and am very glad that more and more people are opening up to the truth.


I think that the variables are great, and are fascinating to ponder.



posted on Jan, 18 2009 @ 04:46 PM
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I think you are overlooking an option.

God is a perfectionist, and to get into heaven you must be blameless. But since he loves us, he used Jesus as a scapegoat for our sins, so that we can go to heaven.

I recommend the book "Life of Pi", the author does a good job of describing christianity, hinduism, and islam.



posted on Jan, 18 2009 @ 04:46 PM
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reply to post by badmedia
 


I appreciate your post as I do most of what you write!


Other stuff I don't know. It seems to me like there are multiple gods in the OT. There is the god/prince of this world, and then there is the true god/father. But I think it is important for us to realize - we are evil.


I make a distinction between being wicked verses being evil. I am the only one that does as far as I know. Here are my thoughts:

My Understanding of the Evils!

1. Necessary Evils

2. Spiritual Evils - which can be divided into; evil acts that hurt or destroy the spirit of a person, group or family, and the evil that is contained in a person so the person then becomes evil.

They will do hurtful and harmful acts with the motive of wanting to hurt someone. They do it with malice. Evil people do acts that are premeditated - like setting someone up to fail, and have developed a pattern of doing evil acts.

The Wicked:

Wicked people do acts out of passion, many times spontaneous and out of foolishness. The wicked know they sin but do it anyway, and their conscience pricks. The evil cease to care.

You can love a wicked person to wellness and spiritual growth, but you cannot by using love, rid an evil person of their evil. Wickedness may be skin deep but evil goes to the bone!



posted on Jan, 18 2009 @ 04:49 PM
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reply to post by autowrench
 



The (ET - Annunaki) God of the Bible Was a very cruel being, ripe with murder, genocide, and destruction. Read it for yourself...The Bible is ripe with these sorts of things. I know the religious types will jump all over this, but it's the truth, whether one likes it or not.


Yes! This is why I decided to do this thread. My experience with God has shown me a different side and one that does not support religion. I have done other threads showing what I believe is possibly accurate regarding the Bible. I feel it is time to reflect on the differences.

I believe we have been misled.



posted on Jan, 18 2009 @ 04:50 PM
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reply to post by Bob Sholtz
 



I think you are overlooking an option.

God is a perfectionist, and to get into heaven you must be blameless. But since he loves us, he used Jesus as a scapegoat for our sins, so that we can go to heaven.


No. I was raised with that option and it no longer works for me. Thanks for your post!



posted on Jan, 19 2009 @ 01:22 AM
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We once had 'High Technology.'
We destroyed ourselves to the point only a few escaped.
We had to wait thousands of years for the earth to heal.
When the earth was ready we planted people, and we had to change a few minor things.
Some men (angels) thought that the newbians were ready to breed and proceeded to do just that. But produced Giants instead.
Our leader (god) decreed that all offspring between old man and new man be destroyed from earth. Some time after that he decides to kill all of man.
But one courageous man (angel) saved man (us) in a way we symbolize as 'Jesus.'
'God' of course finds out and punishes the man by sending him to Earth.
Also, any communication would be forbidden.

So, if you ask me God is a man, and an Angel is a man. That is the Great Lie.

The reason I say that is because we have that ability today.
If we have anti-grav tech, then with that comes a degree of immortality.
If we have holographic tech that good, then I can manufacture Angels in downtown Tehran, spark a few well timed quakes...

We have been here before...
We have gone through this before...



posted on Jan, 19 2009 @ 08:26 AM
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i don't know a lot or into religion a lot,,, or even know where i "firmly" stand on god

but,,,,god is love supposedly,,,yet 35,000 innocent children die of starvation every single day

how can god let that happen,,,,, or is it that we,,the human hand are causing, forcing this???

either way they die,,,,thank goodness i can forget about it for days or weeks at a time



posted on Jan, 19 2009 @ 08:42 AM
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I see it all much more simply.

In the beginning was god. Nothing else, just god.
So god was the wisest of all beings, because nothing could exist he had not created.
But in another way god was just a great big lonely baby.

God is not being cruel or judgemental to us. God is us, living these lives as entertainment and as a way to learn and grow. Between lives we can continue the game of separateness, or we can unite with god and plan our next adventure.

The old testament was put together by the leaders of a little desert theocracy to bind their followers into a unit. It convinced their followers they were special and that their god wanted other tribes killed, thus strengthening the theocracy and making its leaders wealthy and powerful.

It's a fascinating collection of stories, but it was entirely the work of man, not of god.

I'm not denying the truth of other opinions in this thread. It's a pretty big elephant, and there are many apparently contradictory ways of seeing it which are worth listening to.



posted on Jan, 19 2009 @ 10:55 AM
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We have been here before...
We have gone through this before...


On many levels I think this to be true! The difference to me is; I believe we have finally reached the end game.

Welcome to ATS!



posted on Jan, 19 2009 @ 11:04 AM
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reply to post by MatrixProphet
 


We misunderstand him much like a 3rd dimensional being misunderstands a 11th dimensional being, we can't comprehend how he thinks and what he does but I see no examples of him being cruel personally.

If God was just and good why would he allow 911 to happen?

The 'why' question, those 911 victims are in paradise, they are happy, God gave us the greatest gift of 'free will', the terrorists used their free will to kill, no good or evil person will be stopped when they want to do something, there is perfect justice at the judgement bar of God, we humans are not just with eachother but when we die and go to God we will be judged so fairly that not a single person will complain about his judgement, everyone will agree and be comfortable with where they go.

The only people going to 'hell', are the people that want to go there, they will deny God in his face, it will be their choice, no innocent people will go to hell.

This is God's nature, he has charity which never faileth, he cannot fall and cannot be evil, it's literally impossible for him to do evil for if he did he would cease to be God.



posted on Jan, 19 2009 @ 11:08 AM
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shortywarn


but,,,,god is love supposedly,,,yet 35,000 innocent children die of starvation every single day

how can god let that happen,,,,, or is it that we,,the human hand are causing, forcing this???


Hopefully, I kinda gave an answer to your questions in the OP, but again, they are only my thoughts and may have little to do with reality.

I cannot accept a God that is totally cruel because I have seen other sides to him. I just believe that we have a very difficult time understanding how low we are in the pecking order of the cosmos.

reply to post by Kailassa
 



The old testament was put together by the leaders of a little desert theocracy to bind their followers into a unit. It convinced their followers they were special and that their god wanted other tribes killed, thus strengthening the theocracy and making its leaders wealthy and powerful.

It's a fascinating collection of stories, but it was entirely the work of man, not of god.


Yes, this is a possibility. I believe it is more complicated than that. But you are certainly right in that; there is a big elephant in the room and everyone has their interpretation of what color it is, whether it is male or female, how old it is, and what color tutu it is wearing!
And many don't even see it in the room!



posted on Jan, 19 2009 @ 11:14 AM
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reply to post by Razimus
 


Well, it is interesting that even the Bible says that God can do evil acts (does not mean he is evil). Take a look at Abraham and what he accused God of doing. Look at Moses and how he supposedly begged God to not kill.

But of course, we are dealing with a faulty book that may have been transcribed or orally passed down incorrectly.

We each have the choice in how we interpret God or lack of. Whatever it is, we are in very difficult times and each of us will lean on whatever it takes to get us through as a people, or individually. Some place all their hope on man, we will see!


Thanks for your post!



posted on Jan, 19 2009 @ 11:50 AM
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Great thread! As someone stated earlier, I am going to have to go back and re-read it a time or two.
Personally, I think that there are a lot of things in the Bible that are attributed to God that have nothing whatsoever to do with God. What kind of loving God would tell you to kill your children if they are disobedient? I mean seriously, would any of us be alive today?
I will be the first to admit that the Bible confuses me!



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