WORLD: Why Should I Care About the Israeli-Hamas Conflict?, page 2


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reply posted on 18-1-2009 @ 12:35 PM by The_Modulus
reply to post by ClintK



Look, don't put words in my mouth.

All you've done is tell me you're against Israel and blame them for everything


Please show me where I've blamed Israel for 'everything'.

I've already read a million posts like that.


Just like you 'read' that I'm blaming 'everything' on Israel.



I'm not saying that the failure of humanity is confined to actions by the Israeli government, the examples you have provided also prove the point to some extent. Humanity has learned from the world wars, or should have, we should be learning from our past that violence and hatred can only breed more violence and hatred. Following WW2 the world adopted the policy of no blame, that the page must be turned, injustice recognised but not retaliated against, because any persecution of one peoples can only lead future generations to persecute those in retaliation.

If you are convinced that Israel's actions against Hamas represented the best way of conducting the matter, you are seriously deluded.

This conflict is important becuase it represents this perpetual cycle of violence that the global community has now recognised as a futile policy that must be abandoned at all costs.


reply posted on 18-1-2009 @ 12:40 PM by detachedindividual
You should care about this conflict because it is being supported by America, and because Israel is committing war crimes.

That doesn't mean you should not care about other conflicts in the world. You should, as a Human.

Another reason you should care, is that Israel is directly targeting innocent people, specifically children too.

I was just as concerned when the war broke out in S.Ossetia, just as concerned when Zimbabwe started murdering opponents in massive numbers, just as concerned with Darfur.

Another reason people are so angry about this war, is that the people are trapped. They don't have the option of leaving for a refugee camp somewhere. Gaza is a refugee camp!
They don't have the option of being protected by the UN, because Israel breaks international law and attacks the UN too!
They don't have the medical aid coming in to treat them, because Israel attacks convoys, hospitals, and prevents aid getting through by breaking the three hour ceasefire to prevent the distribution.

And all of this is being done in a tiny strip of land, densely populated, where the ability to migrate to another safer area is impossible. I cannot find another example of this scenario in any recent conflict.

It doesn't diminish the importance of other wars and events going on in the world, but Israel is directly targeting innocent people in a controlled and dense area, denying press coverage, controlling the media coverage like never before, using illegal methods and weapons in specific violation of the Geneva Convention, and America is supporting it.

These are reason that you, as a Human, should care.

That is unless you have a superiority complex over other people, and see certain children and women as not deserving of Human rights and protection. Maybe if it was another "type" of person being slaughtered by Israel it would cause you to have some humanity?



reply posted on 18-1-2009 @ 12:50 PM by ClintK
Originally posted by whaaa
reply to
post by ClintK





Probably no one cares weather you care or not. I don't care.

But you certainly WILL care if the ME explodes and the US is drawn into
what could morph into a global conflict. Perhaps even WW3. Then you will care.


Kosovo threatened to become a wider conflict. Georgia threatened to become a wider conflict -- and both still could.


reply posted on 18-1-2009 @ 12:51 PM by ClintK
Originally posted by The_Modulus
reply to
post by ClintK



Look, don't put words in my mouth.

All you've done is tell me you're against Israel and blame them for everything


Please show me where I've blamed Israel for 'everything'.



It's rather obvious from your signature.

[edit on 18-1-2009 by ClintK]


reply posted on 18-1-2009 @ 12:56 PM by ClintK
Originally posted by The_Modulus
reply to
post by ClintK





If you are convinced that Israel's actions against Hamas represented the best way of conducting the matter, you are seriously deluded.


I'm not convinced of anything. I really haven't read a post yet that explained why The Israeli-Palestinian conflict is so extraordinary.


reply posted on 18-1-2009 @ 01:20 PM by detachedindividual
Originally posted by ClintK
Originally posted by The_Modulus
reply to
post by ClintK





If you are convinced that Israel's actions against Hamas represented the best way of conducting the matter, you are seriously deluded.


I'm not convinced of anything. I really haven't read a post yet that explained why The Israeli-Palestinian conflict is so extraordinary.


Then you are not reading them correctly, or you are choosing what to accept based on your already misguided beliefs.

Israel is killing a large number of CIVILIANS.

They are not only killing Hamas, they are attacking the civilian infrastructure, aid workers, media...

And America says that this is acceptable.

That is what makes this extraordinary.

In any other circumstances, the international community would be screaming about this, including America. But somehow, because Israel is the one murdering women and children, it's suddenly "overlooked", or made to appear to be more complicated than it actually is.

It's not complicated at all. While Hamas is nasty and things would be better with another power in place, Israel has no excuse for their actions and war crimes. Their response is disproportionate, targeting the civilian population. This attack will not end terrorism against Israel, it will fuel it, a person would have to be a complete idiot to believe that Israel actually thinks it will be safer after this action.

What makes this so severe and outrageously unusual, is that America (and the rest of the world through inaction) is supporting a large power while it annihilates another people. They are using the goal of disarming Hamas and preventing attack on Israel, when we all know that this action will only increase the attacks on Israel over the coming years.

This is the only piece of evidence you need to know that Israel hasn't attacked Gaza to protect Israel from rockets. They've attacked Gaza to incite a wider conflict, allow an excuse to continue pounding Gaza for years to come, wipe out the people and snatch the land.

Israel will be in a state of perpetual war for years to come, and through this they'll take Gaza, attack any neighbor they feel like attacking while seizing more land.



reply posted on 18-1-2009 @ 01:55 PM by dooper
reply to post by detachedindividual



What exactly, is your problem?

Israel is attacking Hamas and rocket launchers, and yes, civilians are getting killed. That is not a war crime!

Just because Jews/Israelis do something does not constitute a war crime!

What war crimes?

Show me a war or a fight where civilians didn't get killed as well? Hey! It happens.

Those of you who think a war, or fighting is a sanitary process whereby you can carefully segregate and separate civilians, you have no idea of what you are talking about!

How about the rocketeers who intentionally aim for civilian areas?

For a group out to deny ignorance, you seem mighty determined to ignore reality.


reply posted on 18-1-2009 @ 02:06 PM by pexx421
I think largely the opposition is to false government stated goals. It is quite obvious to most dissidents and protestors, i think, that while israel states that its goal is an end to violence, and self defense, that by looking historically its quite clear that the true goal of israel is to force out all palestinians and claim the land as sole property and control of the israeli state. THIS is what i think most people are protesting, the fact that israels ever expanding occupation and control are painted as "self defense", and this is accepted. The muslim palestinians are painted as militants, but the germans could have equally painted the jews in the warsaw ghetto in the same light, and used that as an excuse for their cleansing and oppression as well.

No one tries to state that the palestinians are trying to kick out israel, or to occupy THEIR areas, and most europeans and indeed even palestinians and iranians state their desire is for the palestinians to be secure in their land as defined by the UN in the 60's.

This is not a battle between two people fighting for control of the other. It IS that on the israeli side, but on the palestinian side it is a fight to retain what little they have, and to find freedom from starvation, occupation, oppression, and to have the right for self determination.

You cannot simply point to hammas and say, "well they are a terrorist organization and so its justified"....the israeli's have treated ALL the palestinian governments in the same fashion, with attacks, violence, mass deaths, and assassinations, from yasser arafat, to the PLO, to fatah.


reply posted on 18-1-2009 @ 02:30 PM by The_Modulus
reply to post by ClintK



Since you persist in failing to either understand, or just read my posts, I will just paste what I wrote above again:

"This conflict is important becuase it represents this perpetual cycle of violence that the global community has now recognised as a futile policy that must be abandoned at all costs."

Please read before you reply.


reply posted on 18-1-2009 @ 02:35 PM by ClintK
Originally posted by The_Modulus
reply to
post by ClintK



Since you persist in failing to either understand, or just read my posts, I will just paste what I wrote above again:

"This conflict is important becuase it represents this perpetual cycle of violence that the global community has now recognised as a futile policy that must be abandoned at all costs."

Please read before you reply.


It's a "policy?" It can actually be "abandoned?"

That's why I didn't respond to that. I didn't feel it made any sense.
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