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Has the US economy passed the point of no return?

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posted on Jan, 17 2009 @ 11:24 PM
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It's all over the news if you look for it. Many of us can see it getting bad all around us. I know this is a conspiracy site, but when you see the vast amount of economic doom threads here, almost all of them backed with facts and statistics, have we already passed the point of no return? Is economic collapse imminent?

I will post some links to articles and threads here. When you add them all up and look at everything for what it is as a whole, it's pretty damn overwhelming.

Even seeing all of this going on around us most of the public doesn't seem to notice and continues to keep living life as normal...not knowing what real pain lies ahead.


OMG! California controller to suspend tax refunds, welfare checks!www.abovetopsecret.com...
Circuit City to liquidate remaining US www.abovetopsecret.com...
Almost all U.S. cities to lose jobs in 2009: www.abovetopsecret.com...
Obama stimulus bill price tag now $850 www.abovetopsecret.com...'
Fox Business sues Fed for information on Bailouts www.abovetopsecret.com...
The $53-Trillion National Debtwww.contrarianprofits.com...

This is just a few small examples of what has been posted here in just the last day or 2. There is much more out there..it would take a very long time to compile it all.

So again, I ask, do you think this is it? Did it get too bad for it to possibly be fixed? Is a new currency ahead? What the hell is going to happen and how bad is it going to be?

Editted title


[edit on 17-1-2009 by David9176]

[edit on 18-1-2009 by David9176]




posted on Jan, 17 2009 @ 11:27 PM
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I think the question should be.."Have we gone byond the point of no return".

This mess has been building up for the last 10 years and more.



Cheers!!!!



posted on Jan, 17 2009 @ 11:34 PM
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When they are bailing huge banks out to the tune of billion$ then you know something very bad is being smoothed over. Trouble is the other countries are in the same boat with us. But they wont go down with our ship. I think eventually, China will catch on and look to leverage the dollars they have with other investments like gold, investment in their own country, and even other currencies.

When they stop buying our t-bills is when it will hit hard.



posted on Jan, 17 2009 @ 11:40 PM
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reply to post by RFBurns
 


You are probably right but i wasn't aware how bad things were getting until a few months ago. I just didn't pay attention nor care. Apparently it has been escalating for a long time but we seem to be gaining speed in the amount of bad news that seems to pop up daily. There just doesn't seem to be anything to be positive or optimistic about.

Any solution the government brings is IMO the wrong answers to the problems. Even if they did go in another direction, how could they stop this?

I just can't see it happening.



posted on Jan, 17 2009 @ 11:47 PM
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Pretty much.

I was actively watching poltics and the economy last year, calling my congresscritters several times a day to no avail, predicting nearly exactly what occurred months ahead of time, getting very frustrated. I couldn't wait for the elections and change.

But sometime in the spring it began to feel like politics no longer mattered and I stopped paying attention to it in favor of the economy. In August I began to feel that even that didn't matter anymore: there was nothing that could be done that would stop what was, what is, coming, and at that point I began to prepare for the inevitable. Everyone I know respects my judgement but they all thought I was a little overboard back then.

Now they are asking if they can join me if things go bad.

Worse times than you can imagine are coming, sorry to say.

I pay better attention than most to what's going on at any given time; I'm better equipped than most to integrate, collate, and project from that and to understand the implications thereof. I've tried to tell everyone I know and care about how screwed we are, but few listen.

Good luck to everyone.

There it is.

sorry 'bout that.



posted on Jan, 18 2009 @ 12:06 AM
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reply to post by David9176
 


Well its like a rock going downhill and it gains momentum and keeps going faster.

What I am hoping happens is that this new administration will put investment back into this country and inact reglations and limits to companies dumping investment money overseas. We need those manufacturing jobs back in this country, major manufacturing. Our products need to be 100 percent "Made in America", and not the 90 percent overseas, 10 percent American. We have to get byond making paperclips and toothpicks and start making real 100 percent made in America vehicles, consumer electronics, industrial electronics, consumer appliances.

Our industries have been chopped up and shipped overseas to cheap sweat shops and cheap labor plants.

What it will also take is for America to get off this "I want it cheap" mindset. That has been a huge part of the problem as well. If we want to restore our nation into a strong economic might in this world, we have to pay the price for that American pride once again. The "cheaper is better" run must come to an end.

It will take time and alot of hard work, but this country has recovered before, and it can do it again...that is IF this new administration does the right thing.

Just dumping billions of economic stimulus money out there when all we get is 600 bucks each is NOT going to fix anything. That 600 bucks wont even cover some folks late bills much less be spend on extras to stimulate the economy. And when the stimulus package is into the billions, that means that each of us can at least get a 5,000 or 10,000 dollar check that would do some REAL relief and make a REAL impact on stimulating the economy across the board.

Lets hope that it works out for the better.



Cheers!!!!



posted on Jan, 18 2009 @ 12:08 AM
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I fear that it's imminent. With all of the information i've read, no one has claimed to have found a solution. I don't think there is one. There are so many problems that need to be fixed it just doesn't seem possible to me anymore.

We can say that we need to do this or we need to do that, but with each solution there is a new problem created. Everything just seems to have spun out of control.

This year will be a horrible one. I think many will wake up to what is happening this year but by then it will be far too late.



posted on Jan, 18 2009 @ 12:16 AM
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Originally posted by David9176
Even seeing all of this going on around us most of the public doesn't seem to notice and continues to keep living life as normal...not knowing what real pain lies ahead.


I've had that same impression too...that many people just aren't noticing how bad things really are. At work, I only met one other person who was "awake." She quit her job a few months ago, and left the city to go live on her family's farm in the country where she could help her family garden, raise livestock, and not be in the city when TSHTF. She wanted to be prepared for what was coming.

What I find odd is that other than that one person, no one else at work seems to comprehend just how bad things have gotten. My parents have finally started "waking up." I've been talking to them, sending them links to articles online so they can see what's going on, and telling them what my husband and I are doing to try to prepare.

My mother finally mentioned the other day that maybe they ought to start stocking up on food. I'm glad they're starting to prepare.

Anyway, I do think the economy has passed the point of no return as you said. I just don't see how we can recover from this. We can only tax people so much and print so much money before things get a lot worse. And how long before China stops loaning us money? And what happens when we default?

How can we recover from the current economic situation if we continue to print money like there's no tomorrow and if our government keeps borrowing and taxing us? I just don't have any hope that things can get better; I think it's too late.



posted on Jan, 18 2009 @ 12:17 AM
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reply to post by RFBurns
 





What I am hoping happens is that this new administration will put investment back into this country and inact reglations and limits to companies dumping investment money overseas. We need those manufacturing jobs back in this country, major manufacturing. Our products need to be 100 percent "Made in America", and not the 90 percent overseas, 10 percent American. We have to get byond making paperclips and toothpicks and start making real 100 percent made in America vehicles, consumer electronics, industrial electronics, consumer appliances.


I agree with you here. But how do u regulate it without companies losing their competitive edge? The answer to me would to be to lower taxes on businesses to get them to come back or start here, but by doing that we will increase our debt big time. Also it will take years to implement and see some improvement. So what else is there? Tax the people more? We are already overtaxed as it is.

With Obamas infrastructure plan, what happens when everything is "rebuilt?" Do all of those people go back into the unemployment line? In the meantime our debt continues to rise.

It's the ultimate puzzle.



posted on Jan, 18 2009 @ 12:18 AM
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reply to post by David9176
 


I believe we have been past the point of return for a long time. People not only in the US but across the western world have been programmed to believe that the problem of the economy was due to the government not doing enough. So their perceived solution will be more government. Yet government not only created the problem but creates additional problems with every action! And that action of course leads to us being worse off, which in turn leads people to ask for more government "solutions". It is a complete death spiral we are in right now.

There is a plus side... we have a lot of resources still in the USA so I figure the most that will starve to death is 30 million or so before we get back on our feet. And once we do get back on our feet then we can learn to live on about a third to half what we did before. You could call that doom and gloom but hey I think 90% of us making it through and then living moderate to poor really isn't that bad. I mean there are a lot of countries living in complete squalor with not to great of an outlook.

[edit on 18-1-2009 by truthquest]



posted on Jan, 18 2009 @ 12:21 AM
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My dad told me a long time ago that he believed if Americal ever fell it would be from within, not from a foriegn enemy.
Still having a steady job and keeping the lights on I had not paid a great deal of attention to the crashing economy, though the constant news reports, threads on this site, etc kept it in the back of my mind.
The economy here in N. Texas is still pretty good, but this evening I was out with my family, we went first to a local shopping center to pickup some things and my wife and I both noticed immediattely how empty the parking lots seemed. The closed down Circuit City store just seemed eerie.
Next stop was Wal-Mart, usually quite busy up unitl ten oclock or so it only seemed to be doing about half it's normal business as usual. I was nosy, looking into people's carts as I passed and at the checkout and it sure didn't seem folks are buying at the rate they have been. Also the shelves did not seem as well stocked as they normally are.
On the way home noticed gas prices still creeping back up despite oil prices having gone down.
Don't know if we are past the point of no return, but we are definitately past the point of some pain in the near future.
IMHO.



posted on Jan, 18 2009 @ 12:28 AM
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reply to post by truthquest
 





I figure the most that will starve to death is 30 million or so before we get back on our feet.


I've often thought about this. There have been many comparisons to the great depression and to the "crisis" we are in. There are so many more people in the US now than there was then. Million and millions of people living in cities who would be hit hardest by food shortages. They would flood to the countryside looking for anything to eat. When people are trying to stay alive, they will resort to any means to do it. It will be nasty. I hope something like that doesn't happen. It's not feasible for people to live off the "fat of the land." Some can but most will not be able to. There are just too many people.



posted on Jan, 18 2009 @ 12:32 AM
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reply to post by texas thinker
 


Some places are doing better than others. California is almost in shambles. Michigan, where i live, has unemployment just short of 10 percent, highest in the country.

I don't go out and buy things anymore, just food. No more trips to Best Buy or out to eat. No more toys...although i do still have the internet..i might go nuts without that.heh.

I've got a kid on the way which makes me worry about the situation even more than i normally would. I'm still working now but in 6 months will i be?

What will the US look like in 6 months or a year from now? How quickly will it continue to escalate? These are crazy times that we are living in.



posted on Jan, 18 2009 @ 12:49 AM
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reply to post by David9176
 


It seems that right now, companies dont have any real competitive edge when they are getting billions in bailout money, and yet keep getting more bailout money and they continue to invest overseas.

In the past, we did not need to bailout companies when there was regulation and an even keel trade ratio. When de-regulation occured, which is what happend in California and is why they are going broke...hmm sound familiar with the US as a whole?...all these companies that used to have their jobs and indsutrial works here got sent overseas and the rest got to stand in line at the unemployment claims office.

As I said, its going to take alot of hard work and some time. But if we dont do something and just complain that it will be hard and rough, it will never get fixed, only continue to get worse.

Which is lesser of the two evils? Do nothing and watch it all go up in disaster...or do something and take our licks and stand tall and strong and make this nation a leading economic machine like it was 30 years ago?

I vote for the latter.



Cheers!!!!



posted on Jan, 18 2009 @ 12:54 AM
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Imagine if it were Mccain to be sworn in this Tuesday, we would have been in even bigger trouble. I'm honestly very worried, in all my life I've never seen our economy in such bad shape.



posted on Jan, 18 2009 @ 01:10 AM
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reply to post by TH3ON3
 

At this rate I can't make a good prediction who will go down or who will "survive".

Also.. whether it's better if the US stay on top or otherwise, or whether it's better if power shifts more toward China. I'm not so sure now, I'm just gonna wait until the next president makes his move.

BTW, China is now officially the third largest economy in the world surpassing germany, but it's still considered a poor country (per capita wise), and its economy is slowing down significantly since china relies a lot on exports.

Is it better if the US just collapses? What do you think?



posted on Jan, 18 2009 @ 01:13 AM
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I'm seriously worried and am finding it difficult to get anyone to pay the sort of attention the situation requires.

We've been struggling to make ends meet for the past year or two here in socal. Ever since they bled us during the Enron fraud things have been steadily going downhill. But still people keep disbelieving what's in front of them.

Tonight I tried to have a discussion with my brother about when we might be better off using our money to buy supplies rather than pay bills and he flipped at the thought, because he doesn't want to admit things are that bad yet. It's not that bad yet, but it will soon be: guessing correctly may be the difference between life and death, and such things need to be discussed rationally in the time that's left.

The US is toast, just like the USSR, for pretty much the same reason: it's broke. The land and people aren't going anywhere, but as a going enterprise the US is done.

Realistically, there's about six or seven months left before they pack it in. You can't cut jobs public and private as much as has been done without crashing the economy: it's bled white.

Mervyn's closed here a few weeks ago: it was an anchor store in our local mall. On the other side of the same mall, Circuit City just closed. Several small stores have disappeared in the mall without replacement. Yesterday I counted an auto dealer, two restuarants, a discount store, a retail store, and a nightclub either going out of business or gone already on six or seven blocks of one street.

Obama's stimulus is going to go down the same East Coast banking rathole as the first TARP did, never to be seen here in the real world, mark my words.

Sucks.

Oh, yeah, and a computer shop and a record store are gone, too.

[edit on 18-1-2009 by apacheman]



posted on Jan, 18 2009 @ 01:17 AM
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I think we have a little time, but by summer forget it.

I saw a program on the Idiot box about a company that packed up and went to china, well the people and economy was in shambles. What happened next surprised me because what the the workers did was they all got together and filed a lawsuit over the property and won.

They all where owners and opened the factory back up and began producing again. They are the factory workers and owners.

Can't compete with the world you say, simple. Slap a 40% tariff on imports BUT make sure you got the factory going in the US first so you won't have a shortage.

One product at a time.

I like to dream to.



posted on Jan, 18 2009 @ 01:28 AM
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reply to post by apacheman
 


Hello all, I live in Washington state I have and do work as a estate broker for 10 years. So I hold garage/estate sales. This year I noticed people are not buying the "I WANT" things even at pennies on the dollar. It is necessary things. Also buying used as gifts for christmas. Canning supplies fly out the door while high dollar items do not sell. Many stores and businesses are closing. Houses are for sale and not selling. While are property values sink are taxes are going up as well as electricity costing more. It is getting worse I hate the doom and gloom but reality is in what I see. The goverment does not seem to be helping with there bail outs I think giving money to every american in the same dollar amount would of helped the econemy far more. The little guy is the back bone of this country. and that is who they are breaking



posted on Jan, 18 2009 @ 01:39 AM
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About the only thing governments can do if all the bail outs fail is to print more money.

But the US and other developed economies are absolutely nothing like what is taking place inside Zimbabwe right now - I think the latest note they're printing is $1 trillion.

There's growing concern about political unrest in China - people are losing jobs, and there's a strong chance the Chinese government will tighten control on the media and crack down on political groups even more than they do now.

With big companies such as Intel reporting 90% profit losses, the way it affects the real economy could go anywhere.

[edit on 18-1-2009 by mattguy404]



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