It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

Fathers Rights Call to Arms

page: 4
9
<< 1  2  3   >>

log in

join
share:

posted on Jan, 18 2009 @ 07:17 PM
link   

Originally posted by asmeone2
reply to post by PhyberDragon
 


As I've said I refuse to judge who is right/wrong in a case where I know neither participants--although I have stated my opinions on what the OP has admitted to doing.

I can say though that if I were a man, I would have enough sense to leave a woman who was physically abusing me. Forget having a child with her. I will not stay with someone who does not have enough basic respect not to hit me.

As for the woman you refer to who are in jail for PPD, they are... wait for it... in jail, not off the hook because someone forced them into their actions.


I understand that. I'm not saying who's right or wrong. I don't know, I'm just taking the side of my fellow Father. It's sexist i know. at least I admit my bias.

As to leaving the abusive relationship. The abuses rarely come to light in any meaningful way, if at all, but leaving looks bad on you. Especially, if you intend to assert visitation or custody rights. If you think not, I'd investigate that belief a little more, in your own hometown, or the web, or any of the various, forums available, and interview these parents.
No. Leaving is a mistake that invarioably weakens your odds of sucess.
From the other side's point of view what you have done is abandoned her during her time of need, or later after the pregnancy and birth of the child, you have abandoned the child. And if she were as abusive as she claimed it would be construed that you abandoned your child, before or after birth, to one you say you believed was behaving in a way dangerous and/ or detrimental to the child. Leaving is the worse thing you could do, really.




posted on Jan, 18 2009 @ 07:28 PM
link   
While I feel for you OP, and I really do that would be a NIGHTMARE for me. I would end up killing her or me (and no I am NOT suggesting you do that, its stupid). I must say that a big problem in America today is people hold no value towards marriage or long term (lifetime) partnership. I was with my wife 6 years before we married and another few before we had kids. I made SURE I knew who she was and what she was about. I made SURE she wanted what I wanted, not by getting her to say she did but by watching her, getting to know her. Sex is not a sport unfortunately. Its meant for reproduction.



posted on Jan, 18 2009 @ 07:59 PM
link   

Originally posted by eyeforalie
reply to post by PhyberDragon
 


YES. You are 100% correct. You summed up my last year pretty well. I am a motivated person but honestly I wish for death often.


They finally released me from the Sanitorium, but, I stood by my beliefs they everyday I was in there, and I stand by them now.
They say that we are emotionally fragile and mentally unstable to feel this way-- when feeling this way is exactly what got women able to overturn laws granting custody to men. It was only reversed onto us, not dealt with as a very real issue. I know how you feel because it is how tens of thousands if not millions of parents feel. Go to a Paternity or Fathers rights forums and conduct a survey yourself. There are even mother's and some other relatives and non relatives in similiar positions. We are this way emotionally because it is an issue we care about more than breathing. It doesn't make us a threat to our children, it makes us a threat to everyone else, because when they stop caring about how we feel, we stop caring about how they feel. These feelings we have aren't isolated to us. You can make a formidable army of the vast numbers of disgruntled parents whose patience is all but gone or wiped extremely thin.

Suicide is not the option. You are no good to us dead. If for that reason alone Father's (mother's and Guardians) in your Class care. We do understand, and, short of my psychologists, psychiatrist, pharmacologist and the Pleadings I have to forever write to these incompetant Judges, I do not apologize for my feelings, and neither should you. If you hide them the World will never learn, and we'll be one step closer to the pacified cattle of Society. So say how you feel and don't blame yourself. I don't know who did what, but, the System allowed it to be that way. I'm 100% certain of it, even without knowing your details.

I feel dead everyday and nothing has any meaning for me. My daughter was taken as a baby, and my case is complicated so I won't go there, except to say, it was her mother who lost her not me, I wasn't even allowed access or visitations, even though they are Court Ordered that I get them. I've gone through 8 cases and will be on to the 9th this year- one a Federal Class Action Suit. I've gone through 6 lawyers, and the last few cases I just do all of it myself-- lawyers suck, I've gotten more done without them. And even though I can prove that the allegations were false and fabricated, even by the Social Worker who filed them's own admission under oath that she made it all up, I still don't get to see my daughter. I refuse to pay child support because of the fact that they established 2 Paternity's for me and stole my custody, which I've also proven, and I will not pay the ransom. The State and Fed CS and Courts decided that they will not pursue me for CS and even though I am over 5 close to $10000 in arrears (a felony) they will not come after me even after my repeated requests that they do, since I informed them that I know that a civil case is not a trial and their reason's for taking and keeping her from me are not crimes, but that failure to pay over $5000 is, therefore, I will not only be required an attorney who I will make file and do exactly what I tell him without being able to even talk to the judge or prosecutor without me, plus I'll be entitled to a trial by jury which a Civil Case would not entitle me too, well, I look forward to perosecution for failure to pay- it's exactly what I want for a check mate to my and Father's rights.
My daughter doesn't even know I exist, nor will those raising her tell her, they have declared as much. And even though I have visitation rights I can not see her. The Social Worker admitted she lied and had nothing on either me or the mother,yet, here I sit.
Oh yes, I want to do things to them that would make God cry and the devil cringe, beacause I can't I feel as though I want to die, deserve to die, for failing to protect my baby from those monsters the System. Ifeel not one bit ashamed about it. they should be on their knees praying I never change my mind. My daughter's best interests are what I her Father say they are. Her mother could care less. So, yes, I understand your pain. Use it. don't let it use you. I'm as sane as the next guy, that's why the Sanitorium had to let me go. I suffer what they call Anti Socio Psychosis. I sure do. I hate the System and would not care if I saw it burn to ashes. But, I have better ways to hurt them. I go for their wallet, even as they go for mine. I have already cost the State of Kentucky more in legal expenses arguing with me than they will ever collect to support my daughter 3 times over. They won't even pursue me because, I'll cost them 10 times more than that when they do. And when I reach this next venue, I'll be able to present evidences already presented to the original Court, so, they can't dismiss them saying I never brought it all up, they thought I was nuts for rambling on and submitting irrelevant evidence after irrelevant evidence, until they realized I knew what they'd do-- it's what they always do. I banked on it and was right. Now with the teary eyed confessions of lies by all the accuser's and witness statements in my defense from ton's of related professionals, and with the mother standing down in her claim for custody, I have no opposition, I win.
So, they won't pursue Child Support, because it'd be a public criminal trial with witnesses and I'll prove 1000% with no opposition from the State how my daughter and I were screwed. Plus the damages they'd all owe us too.
Even if I never know my daughter or she know me, they will never interfere with me and any other child I have in the future and have already declared as much to me. I've filed more into the record than any other case of it's type, and more goes in by the year.

Don't give up, learn your opponent better than they know themselves. Go for their wallet, even as they go for yours, they will turn you loose. If more people would do this, the System would collapse under it's own weight, simply because it couldn't afford to operate. You can win.
Oh. And they couldn't jail me I'd likely just get a temporary stay back at the Mental hospital. Even if they could they wouldn't as I would spread my ideas among the prison(s) to those similiarly incarcerated

[edit on 18-1-2009 by PhyberDragon]



posted on Jan, 18 2009 @ 08:36 PM
link   
reply to post by PhyberDragon
 


I need to talk to you more about this as i have a court date comming up and may fire my lawyer in the next couple days if she will not represent my views. Would you pm me? i dont have enough points
I, like you have a very deep hatred for the system and i agree with your stance on what has to be done.



posted on Jan, 18 2009 @ 09:33 PM
link   
All opinions about me aside. I am just one of many dads that deals with this on a daily basis. I started this thread about my pure distrust to the child support system. It is percieved as a threat to me. I have a child that I love very much and want to be with. I don't think anybody who hasn't had it happen to them would ever understand or relate to. It is like watching your own child being taken away from you, from the same very day that your child is born.


I ain't gonna lie here and take this. A Class action lawsuit is needed. There will be more than enough names in it to fix it.

[edit on 18-1-2009 by 12.21.12]



posted on Jan, 18 2009 @ 11:14 PM
link   
Thomas Paine, Crisis:

THESE are the times that try men's souls. The summer soldier and the sunshine patriot will, in this crisis, shrink from the service of their country; but he that stands by it now, deserves the love and thanks of man and woman. Tyranny, like hell, is not easily conquered; yet we have this consolation with us, that the harder the conflict, the more glorious the triumph. What we obtain too cheap, we esteem too lightly: it is dearness only that gives every thing its value. Heaven knows how to put a proper price upon its goods; and it would be strange indeed if so celestial an article as FREEDOM should not be highly rated. Britain, with an army to enforce her tyranny, has declared that she has a right (not only to TAX) but "to BIND us in ALL CASES WHATSOEVER" and if being bound in that manner, is not slavery, then is there not such a thing as slavery upon earth. Even the expression is impious; for so unlimited a power can belong only to God.


The poster who talk's about true marriage, sex not being a sport, and knowing each other by observing is so dead on the money. If I hadn't rushed into the relationships I have, I wouldn't have my problems. I guess that's why I quit dating the day my daughter was concieved. She was the result of break up sex, and I won't ever do that again. If I have my third kid, it will be from a real commitment to a relationship on both our parts.

I'll PM you my email and help how I can, but, I'm no lawyer.
But, I can lead you to good sources of information, I've been at this since 2000, so, I've got some insight for you. Whatever you do: DO NOT Take My Word for Anything. Look into stuff on your own. Take an active part in your own case. Remember, it's your case, not the lawyer's, but, unless you're willing to lose your daughter for your cause like I was, play their game. It's best to make a difference after you win your case.

Even though I win, I lose. My daughter has no idea I exist, and they will never tell her. She believes some other peopple are mom and dad. If I told her the truth or went for custody of her now, she's 8, it will destroy the world for her as she's come to know. In the best interests of my daughter, I will not be responsible for that. The psychological damage it could cause her could destroy her future.
So as longas CS leaves me alone, I've agreed to leave the State alone. It's a Mexican Standoff I guess. A draw. I win. I got the State out of my life, but, at the expense of ever knowing my daughter.
All because the State lied, took her, admitted to lying, and kept her.
I'm all for anything that would abolish the Parens Patrae System and crush that money making devil DHHS, anything. I'd General whatever cause the masses saw fit to execute. I'd help to figure out and write how the Law should be. And, if all else fails, throw off that failure of a Government System. But, until such a day, tell your lawyer to do whatever it takes, get you into whatever program will get you visitations. Get a job, even a crappy one and keep a stable place, stay out of jail and off drugs, don't even smoke cigarettes, or at least make it appear you don't. All of that will hurt you if you don't. When you get visits if they are supervised: Never discuss your case or anything else but your child and how they, not you, are doing, make eye contact with the child alawys and ensure they make contact with you, check on their food/ drink and toileting needs at least twice during the visits, make all appointments, come early and speak with the supervisors, be civil with and about the mother as if you were still in love with her and nothing was wrong- no matter how she reacts, Always interact with your child and not at them. Read all current material regarding your child as per their age--their are age appropriate milestones they believe in and look for like a hawk-- learn what they are and the psychobabble Discipline Guidelines that go with them. It's a game, you must play it. And as to law, they play dirty pool, so must you. You must re- vamp into a New Age New Model Father who doesn't mind being a sperm donor and a wallet. You are the paycheck, smile and be proud of it. Your access to your daughter depends on it.



posted on Jan, 18 2009 @ 11:55 PM
link   
reply to post by PhyberDragon
 

Haha. If i thought you were a lawyer i wouldnt have asked
I believe they are there for a check and have a plesent time doing it, that is all. I have a pretty solid idea about about my case fundimenaly, i just need to pe pointed the right direction legaly...there is sooo much to sort through. Im going all out. I want to tell the judge why it is wrong both legaly and moraly and have the facts to back it up. I am with on the class action suit. You have my full support. What are some good ways to spread the word?



posted on Jan, 19 2009 @ 01:17 PM
link   



posted on Jan, 19 2009 @ 07:06 PM
link   
reply to post by asmeone2
 





As I've said I refuse to judge who is right/wrong in a case where I know neither participants--although I have stated my opinions on what the OP has admitted to doing.


This was never to be made a case about me. This is more less a reaction to the child support system in general and how it has been manipulated by feminist ideals and standards. This would be case of the individual laws that allow women and sometimes men to do this to men or woman. This would be a legal action, to prevent the government to manipulate our families and standard of living. Whereas 3rd party advocates not only support but also promote this ideal and build cases against the other party as a financial duty to be garnished and paid to the state.



I can say though that if I were a man, I would have enough sense to leave a woman who was physically abusing me. Forget having a child with her. I will not stay with someone who does not have enough basic respect not to hit me.


I did leave her. But sometimes you can't just snap your fingers and expect it to happen right away. You also must consider that she was the soon to be mother of my child so there was also a lot at stake. Sometimes men and women have domestic disputes that are not known about by legal authorities because it is against the better interests of the parties involved. The conclusion I arrived at was at the time a last resort.

There is a whole lot of support out there for mothers and women, especially when it comes to children and domestic violence. But the truth of the matter is that just as often men are the victims of domestic violence. Due to the nature of our court system, support groups and 3rd party advocate groups, domestic violence perpetrated against men usually goes about unheard.



posted on Jan, 20 2009 @ 03:33 AM
link   
I can't believe I just read that, from another woman no less. What an abhorrent way to think.

If that line of thought wasn't so upsetting and ignorant, I would feel sorry for you.



posted on Jan, 20 2009 @ 03:43 AM
link   
reply to post by 12.21.12
 



my seed


Geesh!
If I was your daughter and found out you repeatedly referred to me as your *seed* I'd divorce you as a father.

How disgusting is that!

ugh.

As for your current problem, sorry, but, I've no sympathy what-so-ever for someone who threatens suicide as a ploy.
In my opinion your daughter is better off not growing up under a father who presents passive-aggressive behavior.

peace




[edit on 20-1-2009 by silo13]



posted on Jan, 20 2009 @ 11:43 AM
link   

Originally posted by silo13
reply to post by 12.21.12
 



my seed


Geesh!
If I was your daughter and found out you repeatedly referred to me as your *seed* I'd divorce you as a father.

How disgusting is that!

ugh.

As for your current problem, sorry, but, I've no sympathy what-so-ever for someone who threatens suicide as a ploy.
In my opinion your daughter is better off not growing up under a father who presents passive-aggressive behavior.

peace

[edit on 20-1-2009 by silo13]


And it's people like you who inject their own thoughts and opinions to cases that concern that of a childrens welfare at face value on the surface yet do not take the time to look and see why things are the way they have became.

I will let you know that the abuse started long before my chiild was even born. During her mothers preganacy she threatened never to ever let me see my child. She told me should not allow my name on the birth certificate. She told me that my only concern was to pay child support. She has struck me violently to which I have never struck her back. She had abused my physically, emotionally and verbally. She had gone out of her way to make my life a living hell and to make so that I would not want to stick around.

She had done things like move heavy dressers into the spare room along with all my other possessions into the spare bedroom where I was staying only a month or two of living with her. To the point where there was no room in there to walk. Because the room was packed so full of my belongings. I had moved into there because we agreed that if we lived together it would help save money. But after moving in she turned every day into a living nightmare. I could not ever physically restrain her as that was a ploy for me to act violently against her, to which she would call the police and have me arrested. She went so far as to remove all the food in the household into her bedroom and lock the door. So that if I may need a meal I would have to go elsewhere and pay. Even though I had paid for the food that was in the house. She did this because I had no place to go and I had no choice to put up with it. She did not only do it to me. She did it to my cat. She would take away the cats food and hide it somewhere and call me on the phone and tell me that I needed to feed my cat. She even locked my cat in her room one day with all the food. She removed the showerhead so that my showers would be nothing more than standing water for several weeks.

So would you say that threatening to attempt suicide as a ploy was unhelpful to my case and I would agree. However it was the only thing that I felt at the time that I could do.

Heres an idea. Why don't you endure several months of not being allowed to see the one you love most but instead have your life filled with child support garnishments to the point where you can not pay your bills? Court dates and appointments. Try to convince child services that you are not a drug addict as the parent of your child has painted you to be. Then tell me how you feel. I will have you know that my threat was a very real thought, a thought that I had on a daily basis. Because my quality of life had been taken away and replaced with debt and the emptiness of never being allowed to see my own child. To be painted as a deadbeat, drug addict who was a threat to his own child. Then you tell me how you feel. Okay?

Second, I did make a threat to which she called the police and had me arrested. Even though I had not threatened her in any way. Truth be told I needed distance from her. She had set the bar high and was the daily source of harrasment in my life. Even though I was no longer living with her, she would use my child to manipulate me and to get her to do what she wanted me to do. I was attaining more debt and barely eating at that point in my life every day was a struggle. In which my wages were garnished to the point where I could no longer afford to live in the place I was living, and that place by the way was not very expensive. Go pawn all of your belongings just so you can eat or have a payday advance so you can get a decent meal every now and then and let me know how it makes you feel.

Third, nobody knows about the thought and even attempts about suicide that I had endured over six months ago as I have not told anybody about them. Nobody knows about it but myself. This was because I watched my income go from having enough to pay all of my bills and still have a little extra money left over to over $5,000 worth of debt basically overnight, or in the course of a month. From having a foot in the door to where I could see my child and was taken away from me overnight. This was a time when I was homeless. A time when I had to sell and pawn most of my belongings so I could move out of the place I was renting to cover the expenses of having a storage unit for my things and so that I could basically be homeless because my financial situation had spun out of my control overnight.

Tell me how you feel after you pour your heart into something like say, your own child and all the work you had done gets erased overnight. Tell me how you feel when you can not uphold your duties to the system because it has no concern for your own safety, welfare, or ability to stay employed.

How dare you judge me. You have no idea what I have been through. I would never wish these kind of things on my own worst enemy. Yet these things go unnoticed everyday. I tried to get some financial assistance from the state, but because of the child support laws and the arrears balance that was established from the day that she was born I was denied. Even though I had never missed a payment up until that point and even paid it every month before child support was even established.



posted on Jan, 20 2009 @ 12:14 PM
link   
I am feeling like I should not have posted this. I did so because I thought ATS was a place where I could express my innermost feelings about this issue, who I rarely talk about with anybody. My own friends and family have been alienated because I have had no choice but to take a neutral stance and try to mediate between the two parties. I have to maintain civility in this issue no matter how hard it may be at times. I am not trying to put my babies mother in a position where she would feel threatened. I often times have to stick up for her, often times my voice goes unheard.

Yet, even here on ATS some people have no reservations about labeling me or telling me straight up that I am a bad person. Though they have never been in a similar situation they would be the first to go on and judge me based on my honest explanation of the story. Certainly I would not go into a courtroom and discuss my innermost thoughts and fears. Some of you people make me sick as of your lack of reservations.

I am here because I know that there are many other fathers like me who have been through this and understand where I am coming from. I am here because I know that I am not the only one, who has no choice but to keep certain truths about a situation silent, because to do so otherwise would aggrivate the situation.

Some of you people do not even have "apathy" because you have never been through this kind of situation that is pertaining to a child. You don't know the child, nor the parties involved. Yet you have no reservations. Instead you label and judge when your two cents are not wanted, nor needed, nor will they be condoned. If you feel like you must offer your two cents and have not personally dealt with the system. Please don't. I would rather you leave this thread because your opinion is not wanted and if it continues I will stop posting all together. This is a very personal issue for me. I came here to discuss with others who can relate. Please respect my situation. Do not aggrivate it. your labels and opinions are quite frankly, unwanted, not needed and not necessary.



posted on Jan, 20 2009 @ 05:30 PM
link   
reply to post by 12.21.12
 


Check your U2U...



posted on Jan, 20 2009 @ 05:56 PM
link   
Unfortunatly, alot of fathers are living this situation, the system is not
respecting fathers rights.

I think you are very coragouse man to expose it, i am sure you will
find a way to deal with it.


We are behind you my friend...!



new topics

top topics



 
9
<< 1  2  3   >>

log in

join