Fathers Rights Call to Arms

Basically if you can imagine I used to be willing and able to get my basic needs met. I have a career that I love and a good education and solid work history. Once you get in the system things change. You can not accept certain jobs as the means do not always satisfy the needs.

Originally posted by 12.21.12
Basically if you can imagine I used to be willing and able to get my basic needs met. I have a career that I love and a good education and solid work history. Once you get in the system things change. You can not accept certain jobs as the means do not always satisfy the needs.

No I cannot imagine, that is why I asked you to el aborate on how you got into the system, not what it prevented you from doing once you got there.

reply to post by asmeone2


What I mean is that this is my daily hell. I am not one of those dads that split. I am the one who said I want you to have that child and I will be there for you no matter what.

Basically, I was dating the mom who lived next to me, we were in a relationship. Though not for very long. I had split up with her because she went and slept with her ex. Two weeks later she told me she was pregnant and I was the dad. Taht is when I told her that she had my support 100%. Then I found out that one of her stupid friends that doesn't even know me was calling me an asshole cause I didn't tell my parents about it yet. Then went as far as telling her to start filing for child support. She was not even two months pregnant and I had just moved in with her so we could start saving. Somewhere along the lines I said something about paternity.

She started threatening to kick me out. She took all of my things pregnant, I am talking heavy furniture and start moving them all into the spare bedroom while I was sleeping with music blaring at 8 am while I was trying to sleep. I couldn't touch her or even try to stop her because she would have called the cops and had me arrested.

That wasn't enough. She then took all the food and microwave in the household and moved it into her room and bought a lock for the door. She even locked my cat in there so I called the cops and asked if I could kick the door down and they said no. I was verbally and physically abused for several months before I was able to move out and there was not a damn thing I could do about it.

So instead of letting me do a paternity test after the child was born. She told me I needed a court order. Then she took her ex down instead and had paternity done. After confirmation that he was not the dad she went directly to child support and filed.. I was in the child support office filling out financial paperwork before I was even allowed to verify paternity and the rest is history. The court system has had me by the balls ever since.

reply to post by 12.21.12


Eh, that is a shame that she treated you like that.

I would not have offered her "100% support" if she was treatingme like that, but I beleive you did it in the interest in the child so that is at least admirable.

FYI you have the right to demand a paternity test now... especially if she has admitted to cheating.. that may be after the fact now though.

reply to post by asmeone2


Well the point is basically I was thrown into the child support system before anybody ever heard my case. In fact no judge has heard my case as of yet. I hadn't made it that far. I got my balls stapled to the wall in restraining order court though. We went to mediation and the ex-judge awarded me 6 hours a week with my kid. What a joke.

reply to post by 12.21.12


As I said, it sounds like cause and effect, the courts take violent threats seriously, especially if you admit to making them.

reply to post by asmeone2


Yeah But I don't care about that anymore. They declared war against my seed and I long before that. I am going to answer the call. My fight is not just for my children but for all children and fathers who deal with this negligence on a daily basis.. This is not a game anymore.

I am at the point where I am sick of peoples rights being trampled on and nobody does anything to stop it from happening. What are these people going to do when 1,000 pissed off dads come into the court house demanding their god given rights? They will stand down. New laws will come into effect. This is a call to arms. I for one will not accept this sort of negligence from those who believe it is there responsibility to make these kinds of decisions for me.

The world is just full of lawyers who would not pursue your case. So many lawyers are known for not being willing to take your money so as to pursue your case.

reply to post by Aeons


I am not sure what you mean. Sure they would. This is a catch 22 though. The ball is not exactly in my court. Lawyers are a good way to get the help I need, but at what cost? Right now I am unemployed. 8 months ago I was working full time making $17 an hour. Either way it takes time and money and time away from work to persue.

You should read and pick up a used copy of a book called "The Outlaws Bible" by E X Boozhie

Well 12...

Can I call you 12?

You've made some mistakes but you don't seem like a bad guy.
Yes the rules are unpleasant...of course all rules are unpleasant when they land on you...

Opinions from me...
Given that the Ex is not the father, you probably are unless you think someone else is involved. Women going back to ex's for a one night thing is a common event but I really don't need to preach at you over such things.
As per mediation, you've got 6 hours a week, enjoy them with your child, no matter how crappy things are for you, remember this sorta things is ALWAYS harder on the kid.
As for work, you got my sympathy their man, A LOT of people are suffering. You can ask the judge to alter the garnishments to help you get a lower paying job...sucks but it is not impossible.

Crappy Advice from a Crappy Person (me)

1. Get work, or start training a new skill. When you don't got work, develop a new skill, sure it may be hard to get started but you would be amazed at how quick you can pick something up. Finding a job is your new job as they say. You probably already know this.

2. As you have been to mediation it is obvious you have been through a long drawn out history with this case. Here is a little secret about myself. Before I started making a living as a sound engineer I got a real college degree in psychology, and became a real 0-5 year old case manager and I assisted with abuse investigations as well. I saw from kids treated like animals to some boiled in water (you heard me, boiled like a piece of meat) I could not handle it and quit, but I learned A LOT about courts and children. My first rule when dealing with custody issues, MOM and DAD will BOTH LIE. PERIOD. Yeah, both parties will lie, guess what, EVERYONE in the system has seen a dozen cases just like yours. Here are a few guidelines from someone who used deal with dozens of people just like you.

1] Stop accusing the mother of whatever. This helps NO ONE. And it makes you look like you are a tool if you keep bringing stuff up. It is a sure sign that you and the mother are INCAPABLE of working out an agreement. This stuff is normally going on 6 months MINIMUM and more probably a year and a half before mediation. If this went all the way to mediation then both of yall are probably a bit screwd up, accept it, then improve upon it.
2] You threatened to kill yourself, that is a prime reason for a child to be removed. The department I worked for had removed children from mother's for the exact same reason. YOU have to be the utmost example of responsibility, after that screw up YOU have to prove your worth. Courts don't care who you are, they don't judge character, they care about actions. When I wrote case notes it was never...Joe schmoe seems like a nice fella, it was Joe Schmoe was neatly dressed, presented well and behaved soberly. ACTIONS NOT IDEAS.
3] Get help. Doesn't matter where or how. The more stuff you can display as improving yourself the better. DO NOT COME AND SAY, I was thinking about my actions and I realize they were wrong, instead say I sought professional help, I sought a support group, I joined a professional organization, I joined a charity drive. Actions not ideas.
*note, this may sound plum crazy in your line of work but if you are unemployed join a feed the homeless one day a week or even better a charity that builds homes for homeless people. You would be DROP DEAD amazed how many well to do philanthropist do this kinda stuff, it could very easily lead to a job. Same goes for local politics, whether you are left or right leaning, join the local political scene and network, you would be amazed how many business people you meet at these things. And if it doesn't you will feel a whole lot better about yourself anyways.

I think you are a good guy. But I would bet you don't know what your doing (who does). Try and take some part of my advice, trust me.

reply to post by SonOfChaos


Thanks. That all sounds good. I will consider that. Seriously I will.

Just to clear a few things up though.

I did do paternity.

Also she does not take any of the orders made by the court seriously and neither do I.
They were so unrealistic from the get go that we don't even go by them at all. It is right now pretty much what she says goes.

Yes I could file for contempt. But I am also unemployed and don't look very good in black and white right now. That is why this is such a nightmare.. I have no choice but to wait and hope that things start to get better for me and they don't. The economy is crap and this country is going down the poop shoot in a hurry.

You'd better take those court orders seriously. She'll use the violations against you when she can. You have a penis, you have no rights, you are just a worker slave, and you shoulder all the responsibilities. She is a goddess of fertility, a creator of life, a child in the eyes of the law, and shoulders no responsibility. You are playing her game by her rules, and only she knows her rules.

You seem cool 12. but I must be serious.

reread this for finding employment first of all. You know how bad this problem is holding you back and what I said about local politics and charity organizations is completely true. TRY IT.

3] Get help. Doesn't matter where or how. The more stuff you can display as improving yourself the better. DO NOT COME AND SAY, I was thinking about my actions and I realize they were wrong, instead say I sought professional help, I sought a support group, I joined a professional organization, I joined a charity drive. Actions not ideas.
*note, this may sound plum crazy in your line of work but if you are unemployed join a feed the homeless one day a week or even better a charity that builds homes for homeless people. You would be DROP DEAD amazed how many well to do philanthropist do this kinda stuff, it could very easily lead to a job. Same goes for local politics, whether you are left or right leaning, join the local political scene and network, you would be amazed how many business people you meet at these things. And if it doesn't you will feel a whole lot better about yourself anyways.

I wrote case plans, I negotiated mediation, I know how this works on the inside. Verifiable actions NOT ideas. AND follow that court order to a T, if she does not that is her problem. You keep yourself on the straight and narrow their, just cause she fails to follow, you document that you do follow through. If she fails AND THEN you fail...guess what, you are no better than her. If the court order specifies a time to pickup the kid, you go to pickup the kid, if you know she won't let you have it, go ANYWAY, then you document that it happened and do it every time cause if you don't you implied that the arrangement is fine. If you don't have a set schedule and she refuses to schedule a time/place, call her everyweek and write down when this occurred, ask her when is good for her. If you keep a dated diary of your contacts the courts WILL accept it as evidence of your actions. Go back every week just like you would if she was following the order. SHE CAN NOT MAKE YOU NOT FOLLOW THE COURT ORDER. Whether it is Psychological evaluations, getting a job, or visitations, FOLLOW FOLLOW FOLLOW. Treat it like you would a bill that paying keeps you alive. That court order was negotiated in mediation as a standard, a standard you MUST uphold. After you threatening suicide you MUST NOT FAIL this standard. RESPECT the agreement you two made, that is what the court order is, you and your lawyers negotiated it, then they went to the judge and approved it. Concrete standards. You went into court and said that you CAN do this and agreed to it UNDER OATH. Her actions are not justifications for your shortcomings.

Sorry to Preach. I'm sure their is more but trust me and do what I say and you will get your kids back. I've had the displeasure of taking people's children, and seeing children go through the trauma of these situations. YOU CAN FIX YOUR LIFE DUDE!!

This is no light matter. When this economy crashes out but yet the child support laws remain the same (if not become tougher!), all of you fathers will be in for a big surprise!

The problem with taking your problem to a Forum is that nobody can really agree or disagree, not knowing the facts the Judge(s) had to make the decisions from.

My first Marriage split due to my Wife's alcoholism and my drug use. that was over 20 years ago. I got treatment and straightened out my life and she did not. I easily won custody and maintained it. The Judge was fair through the whole process. So you see from my viewpoint the system was quite fair. Even my Ex-Wife's family conceded afterward the right decisions were made.

You however sound as if you are becoming irrational and nearly to the point of violence. No Judge will give custody to a Father that shows a potential for violence. Be calm and rational and make sure you have a job, don't abuse drugs or alcohol and approach as a calm rational person and you will not have problems getting visitation from a Court.

What did the Guardian Ad Litem put in their report. Read it to find out why you are having problems. The fact that either one of you had to get a restraining order shows there is a problem. Yes, anyone can get a temporary one, but when those are made semi-permanent the problem has been proven to a Judge. Threats or violent acts will guarantee you fail.

Good luck with this.

[edit on 1/17/2009 by Blaine91555]

get a lawyer...you do have rights unless you are guilty of child abuse. but dont do anything violent or stupid (often one and the same).

Those who say fight this in Court, while you should always take that avenue if you can- if only to allow them to hear you and change, have generally got no clue where you are coming from. As I told the federal Court in my Pleadings, "My daughter is worth more to me than your whole damn Country!" I stand by that statement. Don't think you are alone. There are millions of disenfranchised parents, and children too, not only in this Country but the 14 other recipricol Countries, as well, who are fed up with Parens Patrae Laws.
It is fast approaching the point when we should convene, online would perhaps be a cost effective way to do that, and discuss what we as a Class want to see happen with the laws, specifically, as well as their enforcement. And, what legal rights we have to get our views legitimately heard and acted on. If we still get dismissed and oppressed. Then we need to consider what options are realistically available to us to protect our right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. While children are not so much chattel as property goes, they are still a human resource and as such a source of intellectual and property rights to that end. Maybe, this avenue should be studied more in depth, also. I don't believe a call to arms is merited at this point. Save your ammo, our Class may need you in the future, and what good does it do us if we have to take the trouble to buy or break you out of jail?
Seriously, though, use your anger, don't let it use you. Losing our children is a sentence worse than death and as time passes, you will come to learn this more and more to be true. Also, check out Parental Alienation Syndrome (PAS) as this will likely happen as well, if by her or the State. The Government hides the System under quasi Private Agencies such as DHHS, so don't forget Federal Laws that govern both. What's more read the US Code, like Title 18 and 21, as well as, the Constitution, as it pertains your right to be free of Involuntary Servitude, Peonage, and Slavery, especially by those who go out on the government Highways and Conspire to deprive you of such. Consider Kidnapping and False Imprisonment (concurrent offenses) which actually have to do with the States removal or sanctioning of the mother's removal and other relevances to Child Support. Was it by a Temporary Removal where your entitled to a hearing on Fitness (under Stanley v. Illinois) BEFORE your kids were taken, did you get a hearing before they were removed? Was it an Emergency Removal Hearing where they deem it necessary to take your kid before you get a hearing which must take place ASAP (usually within not more than 72 hrs.) or it must be dropped and the kid returned, if so, was the immediate hearing held, was the kid immediately returned and the case closed if not. Check your State Laws. You may have Kidnapping, False Imprisonment, civil rights Violations, ransom concerns, who knows each case is different but they seem to mirror similiar themes. Get a lawyer licensed in but not from your State, but, don't forget their oath to the bar mandates they further the state's agenda or interest at all times- so don't put all your faith in just one. fight it legally as long as you are able.
And was the Custodial parent determined by the Social Servies and Child Support Agencies without a Court Order. Did you refuse private Administrative Hearings with them and op for Public court of Law which is your right. Many, many, many things to consider.
Most important of which is are you guilty of what they say, technically and morally, and is your child be honest, better off without you?
If all else fails, seek out those who are similiarly situated and in the same boat as you and support legal actions to protect our Class of Citizen. If that reaches us no results, then I'm with you, take what's ours by force.
Never stop looking for a peaceful solution, if you do, what will history teach your child about you. Your kid will grow up to see them for what they are, if you lead by example and help teach them that you are not who they say you are and they will learn from that that those who did this to you and your kid are not who they claim to be.
Educate Yourself and Teach Others Actively. It is your best tool of Vengeance. The pen is mightier than the sword. Anyone can shoot a gun, not, everyone can inspire where they put the bullet. A call to Arms, yes. Violence, no.

[edit on 18-1-2009 by PhyberDragon]

Originally posted by 12.21.12
reply to post by Aeons

 

I am not sure what you mean. Sure they would. This is a catch 22 though. The ball is not exactly in my court. Lawyers are a good way to get the help I need, but at what cost? Right now I am unemployed. 8 months ago I was working full time making $17 an hour. Either way it takes time and money and time away from work to persue.

Uh huh. And so the next best solution is of course, to be violent. Because, you know you only have the best interests of your child in mind.

Has it occured to you that your tendency to be insane and potentially violent is recognizable to those around you and the system. No?