OMG! California controller to suspend tax refunds, welfare checks!

Originally posted by lunarminer
On the other hand, the US economy is the largest and richest on earth. Our GNP is around 40 Trillion per year, now that is a much bigger pool of money to play with.

Whoa - back that up! Our Adjusted GNP is about 12 Trillion, not 40 Trillion. Even our unadjusted GNP is only 14 Trillion and that's LAST YEAR'S numbers. Forecasts see a HUGE decline.

This says there is less money, and even less coming. Kinda blows the thesis to shreds, doesn't it?

Well, I don't think that this is the end of the world or anything like that.

I don't think that the government has taken a controlling interest in the economy to watch it go down the tubes. I predict that over the next six months, there will be dozens of "stimulus plans, work projects, government contracts", etc.

This will result in a very dramatic improvement in the economy. In fact the economy may come back even stronger than before. Then the media will cheer and declare that the Obama administration and Congress have "saved the day". This is a role that politicians love to play.

Meanwhile, few will notice that the US has been converted from a Capitalist society to a Socialist state. In fact few know the difference today.

One, very effective way to control people's minds is to put them into a high stress, survival mode (eg. 9/11). It becomes difficult to think rationally--impossible for those who rarely think at any time--and one is much more open to behavior modification through various forms of conditioning. Used to effect by religious and political practitioners of control for throughout history, Pavlov's experiments first described and quantified the effect. Various techniques exploiting the phenomenon have been developed, expanded and refined by social control engineers ever since.
You can read about the above assertions in many books and articles. I'd suggest Dr. William Sargent's Battle for the Mind as an excellent starting point.

amazon.com/Battle-Mind-Physiology-Conversion-Brainwashing/dp/1883536065

Imploding the economy and impoverishing/starving the masses are, it seems to me, part of the overall agenda of the global elites to tighten their grip on the reigns of power. They are generating high levels of stress, fear and, eventually, panic in large segments of the population, and at the same time conditioning the public to accept ever greater tyranny as a solution to the crises the elite's have, themselves, created.

Retaining one's mental balance is essential to resist falling prey to the conditioning. Healthy human relationships, an active, curious mind, a sense of humor, cultivation of virtue, a good diet, exercise, relaxation techniques, and above all, a keen awareness of the techniques of manipulation and conditioning help to immunize one against the insidious, NWO infection that is spreading worldwide.
one against this insidious

Originally posted by redhatty

You laugh at us, but if I am seeing things clearly, Europe is even more scroomed than we are. The EU is looking to Germany to finance every other country right now. Gonna be a rough ride for you folks across the pond too.

Red

The UK is absolutely and totally *****ed.

We have more debt per head than the us on Credit Cards and Loans and also, percentage of wages/income to mortgage.

We had 1/4 of the economy based on Financial Services/City money markets.

We have some of the highest taxes and such like in the world.

We have some of the lowest savings rates for comparible countries in the world.

It's just a time situation, by the end of the summer I think the UK will be in the worst place in the world for developed nations, we have hardly any manufacturing base and no natural resources left... whats left of Oil has been oversold on unregulated futures... which I am very very suprised has not has not come home to roost yet and crashed Brent.

Kind Regards,

Elf

reply to post by redhatty


It will be, im not denying that, im saying its not the end of the world, i dont know about america but we still have a lot of money here in europe, we were hit by ye thieveing feckers in america but not nearly as bad as ye hit yourselves.

reply to post by redhatty


Nope, it doesn't "blow the thesis". 14 Trillion is still much bigger than 2.5 Trillion. Also, any amount over 2.5 Trillion is a net gain for the government.

reply to post by lunarminer


And after the 6 months of bailouts and economic stimulus plans we can face down the inflation that is coming..or maybe the huge debt...53 trillion...which will be MUCH higher in 6 months.

I just don't see it getting better.

Did you know zimbabwe just issued a trillon dollar zim-bill?
www.abovetopsecret.com...

This is where we are headed if we don't clean up our act.

Ok, course the most liberal state in the Union is getting ready to bite the dust.

All you socialist reading this you can keep your socialist polices. Also the Europeans you can keep them too you'll be way worse off then what we are going to be.

This is going to be interesting. If this is engineered to bring about a NWO or whatever, I don't think they have any idea the can of worms they just opened up. They are hoping for a reaction of, "Massa Guvmunt, pleuse cume sav us" and what they are going to get is nothing but resistance.

When the US economy defaults all trust will be lost in gov't and nobody will want to hear any of their lame brained ideas. Then in order for the gov't to win a civil war or revolution they are going to have to win the hearts and minds. There is no way a modern military of a million or two can take on 50+ million combatants, even with the best weapons.

Not going to happen people are going to be so on edge that if anybody even mentions that they should listen to the prez they will probably end up dead not long after that statement. Not to mention they can't bomb people, because that will ruin their whole liberal base.

Oh wow, well hope everyone is prepared because the TSHHTF, it's just not officially acknowledged yet.

World Wide Chaos here we come.

reply to post by lunarminer

Meanwhile, few will notice that the US has been converted from a Capitalist society to a Socialist state. In fact few know the difference today.

I've noticed as I have lived in the U.S. for 53 years. immigrating when I was 7. I've seen the gradual decline toward a socialistic mindset of the Gov't and of MANY citizens.
Sad, so sad, to see this country become undemocratic.

Originally posted by Europe
It will be, im not denying that, im saying its not the end of the world, i dont know about america but we still have a lot of money here in europe, we were hit by ye thieveing feckers in america but not nearly as bad as ye hit yourselves.

End of the world, no. End of governments as we have known them so far, probably. The global collapse will bring with it many changes, and you know that saying about the evil you know vs. the evil you don't?

Not that I want evil at all.

Last time the world was in the mess the whole planet basically went to war, also the time before that. This time there are new players in the game, and all of them know that a war economy can stimulate economic growth, especially when so much can be destroyed - that will have to be rebuilt - in the process.

Europe has felt the brunt of war destruction many times in the past, us pansie arsed Americans have NEVER had a war on our soil, not since the Revolutionary.

So in many ways, I see how Europe will roll with it, yet again, but here in the US, well... I don't see things playing out nice at all.

reply to post by redhatty


Sorry for the bad number, I should have checked it. I checked it a few weeks ago and I should have said 14 Trillion, not 40.

At any rate, taking control of 25% of the world economy in one swift stroke, is a monumental coup.

I think most of you are looking at this in an angle that's getting the best of you. I don't blame you, this is a conspiracy forum.

Since this IS a conspiracy forum, let's try to think outside the box for a moment.

I believe I read back on page 2 or so in this thread that the Elderly, Blind, Disabled folks will be immediately hit by this....

Ok, so that means, the people that really don't have the ability to protest or take immediate action. Yeah, that seems pretty sinister, and to be honest a little over the top for my liking. I ultimately believe people are good in nature, and intend well, at least better than this. AND far better than panicking or rioting.

I think this is far more directed towards enabling a new type of community and culture. I think our human sensibilities will take over to try to take care of ourselves and each other.

You have a choice at least to decide what this country and what your community is going to become from this point forward. You can attempt to go out and hoard as much food and water as possible, and most likely everyone else will do the same. You will eventually discover this will destroy you faster than anything else.

This is not how humanity survives, and this is not how humanity matures. If humanity goes down this dark road.... you will be creating the very thing you fear from your inner imagination.

There is a choice, there is hope, and there is change

Consider doing what I just did, sign up to volunteer and become an active member in your local community to help support the people that surround you in these difficult times. If you do I can guarantee things will not be all that bad after all.

usaservice.org...

It's up to you.

reply to post by Hastobemoretolife


yes us euopeans can keep our socialism, where most of our rich are just as rich as most of yours, but most of our poor are so much better of than yours!
Americans seriously dont understand socialism, its not communism, its not capitalism, its a happy middle ground.

[edit on 16-1-2009 by Europe]

This has happened twice in Michigan and nobody blinked an eye. Now it happens in the land of make believe and every body is yelling the world is ending. Its nothing more then a holly wood scare tactic.

Mods please remove my accidental double post.

[edit on 16-1-2009 by angryamerican]

Originally posted by lunarminer
Nope, it doesn't "blow the thesis". 14 Trillion is still much bigger than 2.5 Trillion. Also, any amount over 2.5 Trillion is a net gain for the government.

14 Trillion GNP, as of November 19, 2008, the total U.S. federal debt was $10.6 trillion, with about $37,316 per capita (that is, per U.S. resident). That does not even include the Bailout increase! 2.7 Trillion in KNOWN Federal Spending. You are left with about 0.7 Trillion. - add in the Bailout and you are probably in a negative number.

Even Governments have a debt to income ratio.

Now lets be generous and say that only 6% unemployment is happening right now. That would reduce the GNP by about 0.83 Trillion - WOW, we are already negative, since we only has 0.7 Trillion left to begin with.

Try as it might, the Government will learn - probably the hard way for all of us - that you cannot fix a debt problem by creating more debt.

reply to post by Muundoggie


Well, I haven't been alive as long as you've been here. I too have seen the slide towards socialism. It has happened at the request of the citizenry and that is scary.

It's been done one handout at a time. It started with FDR and the New Deal but it really got going with LBJ and the Great Society. After that people started looking to the government to "solve" every little problem.

I am waiting for someone to demand that the government provide food and water for everyone, since you can't live with that.

reply to post by Europe


I'm not going to get into it with you on this subject because I don't want to derail the thread. I will say one thing about it though.

How do you expect people to fend for themselves when all they know how to do is stick their hand out? Where is the humanity on making people dependent on other people? To me that is the most cruel thing you can ever do to a person. socialism is all about control it has nothing to do with 'equality.'

Back the the thread.

The truth of the matter is that liberal and socialist policies have caused this down fall, when it works everybody is good, but when it fails, well just look at what happen to the USSR.

Originally posted by questioningall
WOW, of course screw the taxpayer first, I would like to see The Gov. and other high state officals - say they will work for free, since the taxpayer isn't getting anything.

Think they will? Of course not!

Schwarzenegger does not accept his governor's salary of $175,000 per year, and instead donates it to charities.
Source

Schwarzenegger releases tax returns

reply to post by redhatty


Actually we have had several wars on our soil since the Revolution.

War of 1812
Civil War
Mexican American War
WWII (Hawaii and Alaska also US Coast Guard engaged Nazi subs)

I get your meaning though. We have not bled like the other combatants since the Civil War.

I have serious doubts that the US as a whole could face the kind of casualties that we got in WWII, much less the Civil War.