reply to post by amari
That is the time frame for the nation to lose another few million jobs due to the closing, cuts and bankruptcy of many main chain retailers in the
nation that hold most of the hiring force in the nation.
Interesting that while Obama is trying to push his economic stimulus it may be too late to help and just will sink the economy more into a hole.
[edit on 16-1-2009 by marg6043]
OMG! California controller to suspend tax refunds, welfare checks!, page 6
privacy
reply posted on 16-1-2009 @ 10:26 PM by marg6043
reply to post by Europe
One problem, as more jobs are lost the taxable income will be lost, this will put more toll on the nations budget to deal with the deficit as is happening right now.
Go back and read on the link to the deficit and you will understand better the situation we are facing with the borrowing and bailing out in the nation.
One problem, as more jobs are lost the taxable income will be lost, this will put more toll on the nations budget to deal with the deficit as is happening right now.
Go back and read on the link to the deficit and you will understand better the situation we are facing with the borrowing and bailing out in the nation.
reply posted on 16-1-2009 @ 10:38 PM by merky
Originally posted by redhatty
reply to post by Europe
Ya think? Check out Layoff Daily and see just how many are losing their jobs every single day
Hey Red, Thanks for the link. Just had a look see and clicked on a few of the names which lead to their local news clip....interesting...but bad news.
Wonder if we are heading for a full blown depression....nasty days.
Merk
reply posted on 16-1-2009 @ 10:38 PM by David9176
reply to post by Alpha_Magnum
haha...you couldn't be more right. It is definitely depressing. But at least people will know that they won't be alone....it's hurting us all. We are all on a sinking ship....the rich took all the boats...and boy, that water looks really cold!
haha...you couldn't be more right. It is definitely depressing. But at least people will know that they won't be alone....it's hurting us all. We are all on a sinking ship....the rich took all the boats...and boy, that water looks really cold!
reply posted on 16-1-2009 @ 10:42 PM by lunarminer
reply to post by Rockpuck
If this was engineered it's been in the works for over a decade. What would be the motive?
I posted the other day on this subject. It seems to me that the main reasons for deliberately sinking the economy would be the same old motivators that politicians and bureaucrats have always loved. Money and Power.
I think that it is possible that the bureaucrats in DC recognized that our taxation levels are very near the optimum level. So, it would be very difficult to increase revenues by raising taxes. So, the Federal Budget funds that drive all programs are stagnated around 2.5 Trillion per year.
On the other hand, the US economy is the largest and richest on earth. Our GNP is around 40 Trillion per year, now that is a much bigger pool of money to play with. If the US Government could gain access to a majority of the economic drivers, (ie banks, investment houses, major industries) then they could control the entire economy(Power) and tap into the wealth.(Money)
So, how could this be done?
First, they passed laws requiring the financial institutions to make sub-prime loans. Loans that they knew would drive up the number of defaults. Sooner or later, this would cause a lending crisis. They could actually predict when this crisis might occure.
Second, once the lending crisis was in full swing, they knew that the financial institutions would call on the government to cover the losses. These were Federal Guaranteed Loans after all.
Third, they knew that the lending institutions would tighten their lending practices after the crisis began. This would put pressure on the money supply at the Federal Reserve Bank. So, money would become tighter. This tight money policy would put pressure on businesses large and small. These businesses rely on short term loans to cover slow periods or payroll shortfalls.
Fourth, this next point is the lynch pin. At the critical moment, the US Government goes to the Federal Reserve Bank and borrows 2 Trillion dollars. This has the effect of drying up the money supply that would have been available to the banks. The banks can't get short term money, so they can't make short term loans. So, this deepens the credit crisis.
The second effect is that it gives the US Government ready cash that they can use to "come to the rescue". A rescue that was made necessary by their borrowing of 2 Trillion dollars.
Did you wonder where the government suddenly got the money to squander in the "Bailout Bill"? Well, they borrowed it, from the Federal Reserve Bank. This is the smoking gun that this whole thing was engineered. They borrowed the money in July, months before things got really dicey.
Fifth, they now have the cash to "bailout the economy". With the economy crashing, everyone is demanding that the government "do something". So who can blame them for "doing something"?
So, the government now cherry picks the very best banks, investment houses, insurance companies, and corporations to bailout. They don't just give these institutions money, they demand a controlling interest in return.
In one bold move, the government takes control of the US Economy and their "shares" in these companies will pay dividends for years to come. So now the government has the very best of both worlds. They can collect taxes from the citizens and corporations, just like they always did, but they can also supplement that revenue with dividends from the industries that they now control.
If this isn't bad enough, let me ruin your day a little further.
The US Government is the largest customer for many of the institutions that they now control. When it comes time for the government to award contracts for this or that. Who do you think is going to get those contracts? You guessed it, the corporations that the government has a controlling interest in, that's who. So much for competition and the bidding process.
Also, it used to be that when Congress wanted to implement some new control over business, they would have to pass a bill and get the President to sign it. Well, they don't need to do that anymore. Now Congress can send their representative directly to the board meetings and dictate their new policy. No law required. This is ultimate power.
One last thing. Let's say that you are a manager or an exec with one of these controlled corporations. What happens to you if you are a member of the wrong political party? What happens if you step out of line? What happens if you give the wrong campaign contribution? That's right, you're now unemployed.
Keep your eyes open folks, this is going to get stranger and stranger. This is new territory for the US and I don't think that any of us can predict where this will go.
If this was engineered it's been in the works for over a decade. What would be the motive?
I posted the other day on this subject. It seems to me that the main reasons for deliberately sinking the economy would be the same old motivators that politicians and bureaucrats have always loved. Money and Power.
I think that it is possible that the bureaucrats in DC recognized that our taxation levels are very near the optimum level. So, it would be very difficult to increase revenues by raising taxes. So, the Federal Budget funds that drive all programs are stagnated around 2.5 Trillion per year.
On the other hand, the US economy is the largest and richest on earth. Our GNP is around 40 Trillion per year, now that is a much bigger pool of money to play with. If the US Government could gain access to a majority of the economic drivers, (ie banks, investment houses, major industries) then they could control the entire economy(Power) and tap into the wealth.(Money)
So, how could this be done?
First, they passed laws requiring the financial institutions to make sub-prime loans. Loans that they knew would drive up the number of defaults. Sooner or later, this would cause a lending crisis. They could actually predict when this crisis might occure.
Second, once the lending crisis was in full swing, they knew that the financial institutions would call on the government to cover the losses. These were Federal Guaranteed Loans after all.
Third, they knew that the lending institutions would tighten their lending practices after the crisis began. This would put pressure on the money supply at the Federal Reserve Bank. So, money would become tighter. This tight money policy would put pressure on businesses large and small. These businesses rely on short term loans to cover slow periods or payroll shortfalls.
Fourth, this next point is the lynch pin. At the critical moment, the US Government goes to the Federal Reserve Bank and borrows 2 Trillion dollars. This has the effect of drying up the money supply that would have been available to the banks. The banks can't get short term money, so they can't make short term loans. So, this deepens the credit crisis.
The second effect is that it gives the US Government ready cash that they can use to "come to the rescue". A rescue that was made necessary by their borrowing of 2 Trillion dollars.
Did you wonder where the government suddenly got the money to squander in the "Bailout Bill"? Well, they borrowed it, from the Federal Reserve Bank. This is the smoking gun that this whole thing was engineered. They borrowed the money in July, months before things got really dicey.
Fifth, they now have the cash to "bailout the economy". With the economy crashing, everyone is demanding that the government "do something". So who can blame them for "doing something"?
So, the government now cherry picks the very best banks, investment houses, insurance companies, and corporations to bailout. They don't just give these institutions money, they demand a controlling interest in return.
In one bold move, the government takes control of the US Economy and their "shares" in these companies will pay dividends for years to come. So now the government has the very best of both worlds. They can collect taxes from the citizens and corporations, just like they always did, but they can also supplement that revenue with dividends from the industries that they now control.
If this isn't bad enough, let me ruin your day a little further.
The US Government is the largest customer for many of the institutions that they now control. When it comes time for the government to award contracts for this or that. Who do you think is going to get those contracts? You guessed it, the corporations that the government has a controlling interest in, that's who. So much for competition and the bidding process.
Also, it used to be that when Congress wanted to implement some new control over business, they would have to pass a bill and get the President to sign it. Well, they don't need to do that anymore. Now Congress can send their representative directly to the board meetings and dictate their new policy. No law required. This is ultimate power.
One last thing. Let's say that you are a manager or an exec with one of these controlled corporations. What happens to you if you are a member of the wrong political party? What happens if you step out of line? What happens if you give the wrong campaign contribution? That's right, you're now unemployed.
Keep your eyes open folks, this is going to get stranger and stranger. This is new territory for the US and I don't think that any of us can predict where this will go.
reply posted on 16-1-2009 @ 10:48 PM by MischeviousElf
Originally posted by lunarminer
reply to post by Rockpuck
Keep your eyes open folks, this is going to get stranger and stranger. This is new territory for the US and I don't think that any of us can predict where this will go.
Oh I will give it a go.
War
War
War
want a job?
Angry and got frustration to take out....
Remember Hitler and the Jewish Ghetto's as they were called for taking jobs and money......
Control
Control
Control
Want a chip...... for you SSI or food stamps?
Will you ignore police in dark vader gear, and any international action because your too concerned about getting a job.... and the only ones that are new are employed by the government... so cant rock the boat?
Kind Regards,
Elf.
ps good post S from me.
[edit on 16-1-2009 by MischeviousElf]
reply posted on 16-1-2009 @ 10:49 PM by Europe
reply to post by marg6043
In world war two America spent well over a trillion 1940's dollars ( 12 trillion in debt in todays money) and had millions upon millions of unemployed after shifting from a war economy to a normal one, add to that with all the soldiers coming home and you have an even bigger number.
10 years later ye had a big economic boom, even when every one was saying were all f*****.
Economic crashes happen all the time, get over it, its not the end of the world. life will go on.
In world war two America spent well over a trillion 1940's dollars ( 12 trillion in debt in todays money) and had millions upon millions of unemployed after shifting from a war economy to a normal one, add to that with all the soldiers coming home and you have an even bigger number.
10 years later ye had a big economic boom, even when every one was saying were all f*****.
Economic crashes happen all the time, get over it, its not the end of the world. life will go on.
reply posted on 16-1-2009 @ 10:56 PM by MischeviousElf
Originally posted by Europe
"dont be economic girly men" hahahaha, i nearly wet myself laughing at that!
Why has this come as a surprise to people? there are better things to pay for than grants for students and the likes, such as police, firefighters, hospitals and such.
How do the current doctors and nurses get trained.
By going to college?
How do the current intelligensia, and freedom of free thought and intelligent debate of current events and politics get started...
In college.
Where do the current politicians who are meant to also include a oppositie to this sort of action get their first debates.
In college.
Where does most of the research into medicine, philosophy, technology start.
College.
Trash post IMHO
Elf.
Psy ops? please look here:Paid Disinfo Agents ATS Members are Watching You!
reply posted on 16-1-2009 @ 11:02 PM by Muundoggie
reply to post by lunarminer
It's been in the works for over a hundred years. Correct me if I'm wrong but does the Gov't not own your houses now? By supplying bailout money they now have an interest in your real estate. If the economy goes bust then they will own ALL the real estate in this country. "STATE OWNED LAND AND PROPERTY" = Communist State
Read the manifesto below to see just what the bankers are up to. And don't forget, The FEDERAL RESERVE is a private entity owned and run by? You guessed it "BANKERS"
The Bankers Manifesto of 1892
2005 07 02
Revealed by US Congressman Charles A. Lindbergh, Sr. from Minnesota before the US Congress sometime during his term of office between the years of 1907 and 1917 to warn the citizens.
"We (the bankers) must proceed with caution and guard every move made, for the lower order of people are already showing signs of restless commotion. Prudence will therefore show a policy of apparently yielding to the popular will until our plans are so far consummated that we can declare our designs without fear of any organized resistance. The Farmers Alliance and Knights of Labor organizations in the United States should be carefully watched by our trusted men, and we must take immediate steps to control these organizations in our interest or disrupt them.
At the coming Omaha Convention to be held July 4th (1892), our men must attend and direct its movement, or else there will be set on foot such antagonism to our designs as may require force to overcome. This at the present time would be premature. We are not yet ready for such a crisis. Capital must protect itself in every possible manner through combination ( conspiracy) and legislation.
The courts must be called to our aid, debts must be collected, bonds and mortgages foreclosed as rapidly as possible.
When through the process of the law, the common people have lost their homes, they will be more tractable and easily governed through the influence of the strong arm of the government applied to a central power of imperial wealth under the control of the leading financiers. People without homes will not quarrel with their leaders.
History repeats itself in regular cycles. This truth is well known among our principal men who are engaged in forming an imperialism of the world. While they are doing this, the people must be kept in a state of political antagonism.
The question of tariff reform must be urged through the organization known as the Democratic Party, and the question of protection with the reciprocity must be forced to view through the Republican Party.
By thus dividing voters, we can get them to expand their energies in fighting over questions of no importance to us, except as teachers to the common herd. Thus, by discrete action, we can secure all that has been so generously planned and successfully accomplished."
Revealed by Congressman Charles A. Lindbergh, Sr. to the U.S. Congress sometime between 1907 and 1917.
THE BANKERS’ MANIFESTO OF 1934
Capital must protect itself in every way, through combination and through legislation. Debts must be collected and loans and mortgages foreclosed as soon as possible. When through a process of law, the common people have lost their homes, they will be more tractable and more easily governed by the strong arm of the law applied by the central power of wealth, under control of leading financiers. People without homes will not quarrel with their leaders. This is well known among our principle men now engaged in forming an IMPERIALISM of capital to govern the world. By dividing the people we can get them to expend their energies in fighting over questions of no importance to us except as teachers of the common herd. Thus by discrete action we can secure for ourselves what has been generally planned and successfully accomplished.
[edit on 16-1-2009 by Muundoggie]
Originally posted by lunarminer
reply to post by Rockpuck
If this was engineered it's been in the works for over a decade. What would be the motive?
It's been in the works for over a hundred years. Correct me if I'm wrong but does the Gov't not own your houses now? By supplying bailout money they now have an interest in your real estate. If the economy goes bust then they will own ALL the real estate in this country. "STATE OWNED LAND AND PROPERTY" = Communist State
Read the manifesto below to see just what the bankers are up to. And don't forget, The FEDERAL RESERVE is a private entity owned and run by? You guessed it "BANKERS"
The Bankers Manifesto of 1892
2005 07 02
Revealed by US Congressman Charles A. Lindbergh, Sr. from Minnesota before the US Congress sometime during his term of office between the years of 1907 and 1917 to warn the citizens.
"We (the bankers) must proceed with caution and guard every move made, for the lower order of people are already showing signs of restless commotion. Prudence will therefore show a policy of apparently yielding to the popular will until our plans are so far consummated that we can declare our designs without fear of any organized resistance. The Farmers Alliance and Knights of Labor organizations in the United States should be carefully watched by our trusted men, and we must take immediate steps to control these organizations in our interest or disrupt them.
At the coming Omaha Convention to be held July 4th (1892), our men must attend and direct its movement, or else there will be set on foot such antagonism to our designs as may require force to overcome. This at the present time would be premature. We are not yet ready for such a crisis. Capital must protect itself in every possible manner through combination ( conspiracy) and legislation.
The courts must be called to our aid, debts must be collected, bonds and mortgages foreclosed as rapidly as possible.
When through the process of the law, the common people have lost their homes, they will be more tractable and easily governed through the influence of the strong arm of the government applied to a central power of imperial wealth under the control of the leading financiers. People without homes will not quarrel with their leaders.
History repeats itself in regular cycles. This truth is well known among our principal men who are engaged in forming an imperialism of the world. While they are doing this, the people must be kept in a state of political antagonism.
The question of tariff reform must be urged through the organization known as the Democratic Party, and the question of protection with the reciprocity must be forced to view through the Republican Party.
By thus dividing voters, we can get them to expand their energies in fighting over questions of no importance to us, except as teachers to the common herd. Thus, by discrete action, we can secure all that has been so generously planned and successfully accomplished."
Revealed by Congressman Charles A. Lindbergh, Sr. to the U.S. Congress sometime between 1907 and 1917.
THE BANKERS’ MANIFESTO OF 1934
Capital must protect itself in every way, through combination and through legislation. Debts must be collected and loans and mortgages foreclosed as soon as possible. When through a process of law, the common people have lost their homes, they will be more tractable and more easily governed by the strong arm of the law applied by the central power of wealth, under control of leading financiers. People without homes will not quarrel with their leaders. This is well known among our principle men now engaged in forming an IMPERIALISM of capital to govern the world. By dividing the people we can get them to expend their energies in fighting over questions of no importance to us except as teachers of the common herd. Thus by discrete action we can secure for ourselves what has been generally planned and successfully accomplished.
[edit on 16-1-2009 by Muundoggie]
reply posted on 16-1-2009 @ 11:05 PM by Rockpuck
reply to post by marg6043
LOL .. perhaps Marge.. I know I never think "hmm, this entity is broken, not preforming well, misguided and suffering huge deficits.. well .. best let the Government take over!"
After all, before the last part of me saying let the Government take over, anyone would have thought I was describing the Government.
Spending Cannot and will not prevent the next Depression. Even during the Great Depression of 1930-40's FDR's spending DID NOT get us out of the depression. Many say it prolonged it, and the long lasting implications are felt today in our massive welfare system that was designed to fail.
Sad thing is, as Amari pointed out, a State cannot declare bankruptcy, they are essentially Countries. If California is bankrupt, it will cut all services before defaulting on debt, essentially economically ruining the state for a very long time.
lunarminer
I am not entirely sure, I am reviewing government actions since Bush took office and if I find anything out of the ordinary ATS is where I will post. I feel secure in saying that this was not "unforeseen" as the Government will have us believe.
LOL .. perhaps Marge.. I know I never think "hmm, this entity is broken, not preforming well, misguided and suffering huge deficits.. well .. best let the Government take over!"
After all, before the last part of me saying let the Government take over, anyone would have thought I was describing the Government.
Spending Cannot and will not prevent the next Depression. Even during the Great Depression of 1930-40's FDR's spending DID NOT get us out of the depression. Many say it prolonged it, and the long lasting implications are felt today in our massive welfare system that was designed to fail.
Sad thing is, as Amari pointed out, a State cannot declare bankruptcy, they are essentially Countries. If California is bankrupt, it will cut all services before defaulting on debt, essentially economically ruining the state for a very long time.
lunarminer
I am not entirely sure, I am reviewing government actions since Bush took office and if I find anything out of the ordinary ATS is where I will post. I feel secure in saying that this was not "unforeseen" as the Government will have us believe.
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