God's Flaw - Determinism

reply to post by Tesla401

Wow, I have never heard it that way before, but it does make A LOT of sense.
Morning Star
God's favorite angel
The light of the world
Santa
I'm having an epiphany.

Oh, yeah, determinism-it's real. It doesn't mean we can predict anything, but rather that everything happens based on what has happened and what is happening now is determining what will happen.

[edit on 26-1-2009 by cancerian42]

[edit on 26-1-2009 by cancerian42]

Originally posted by Daniem

Originally posted by crmanager

Holy Cow...

You made a half hearted attempt at philosphical writing and ended up simply sounding like a coffe shop intellectual.

"I am a car."

Alright people, here we have an individual who thinks that by simply uttering: "THIS IS STUPID" makes it true. I applaud your geniality.


Well, you can take your little red car and drive off.. come back when you have SOMETHING to contribute.. something with a little more substance than an insult, a line from the video and patronizing tone.


Im sure you boosted your ego to new fantastic heights by showing off what you percieve as intelligence by downgrading me.

What if i told you that you unknowningly try to balance your mood and feelings by reacting to the people around you. If you are feeling unintelligent or trying to hold onto a feeling of dominant intelligence you will bring others down. This makes you feel good.

You hand over all reponsibility for your life and actions. That is pathetic and completely unfounded in reality.

2 Thoughts...Your parents, education, frirends and society all make you you. Who made them? And then who made them and so on? It sounds like no one is responsible for themselves.

That leads to all deviant behavior being absolved.

1) Please give me a specific example of a part of your "mind" that you have complete control of.

2) I definatly hold people responsable. You can't hold someone responsible unless his actions were determined by something.

How can you blame someone for performing an action that just spontaneously popped into his nervous system?

You need to show how the action stemmed from the person's desires and preferences — the person's character — before you start holding the person morally responsible.

My, my, my is that a nerve that was touched?

My response...
1. You have complete control over one thing in your life and one thing only, the 6 inches between your ears. What gets inside that six inches is completely up to you. Nothing else is truly yours to control.
We can discuss Kant and his view of the world, we can discuss the ID,Ego and Super Ego. That is all nothing more then an analysis how how you process what gets in the mind.
I did not say you have control over the stuff that you hear or see. I said you have control over what you let in.
If you believe that you have no control over what gets in your mind then you are a truly sad example of a human.
2. You are COMPLETELY contradicting your post. YOU said you are a car. You said you have no control. If YOU have no control then you CAN't be held responsible for your actions.
Please check your emotional control. You spoke...I responded. Sorry you are insulted.
I have no respect for people who give up control of their life.

Admiral Stockdale, the higest ranking man held in Vietnam was asked how he knew who would survive and who would not.
His response was "They were already free. The ones who said 'I will be out by July 4th' or 'I will be out by Christmas' were the ones that collapsed."

The survivors knew that they were ALREADY home. They just had not arrived yet.

You seemed to have even given up any chance of escaping your prison.

Originally posted by crmanager
I have no respect for people who give up control of their life.

You seemed to have even given up any chance of escaping your prison.

I'll let you read something if you want to see where im coming from:

It is commonly believed that determinism implies we lack control over our lives. This couldn't be further from the truth. Determinism not only co-exists with personal freedom, but indeed, by embedding us within the causal chain, it provides our freedom.

Please remember that this thread is a suggestion, not a firm belief i know for surtain, id never purposly be closed minded or even 100% sure of ANYTHING.

reply to post by Daniem


I think it's good that you've made this realization of the "automaton" like processes of our world.

This is something concrete and undenyable.

However...

Take it a step further...

try to understand that the mechanicity of nature is something of the animal kingdom, which we are a part of, as in truth we are "intellectual animals".
Understand that this "free will" that we have has been in the past and now, percieved to be from two separate sources..

A) the source of our animalistically motivated survival/instinctual EGOS that form within ourselves.. urges... desires...

B) the will of a higher level of ideal, denying animal instinct ( a challenge) .. and following the "right thing to do for all" .. even if it means sacrificing our personal pleasures... a higher level of being "conscious" of everything.



imagine your experience as a member of mankind as the potential "window of opportunity" in order to psychologically refine our selves with the destruction of these purely animalistic mechanical "ego" tendencies... pride, lust, greed, envy, anger etc...
and a chance to refine the higher ideals of the psyche...

yes we are dwelling in animal bodies, with which come all these "robotic" and "instinctual" automatic reactionary response systems..

but there is a point and a meaning to life..
and it is to deny these urges.. to use that energy that drives them..
to transform that energy into more idealistic and purposeful means to enhance the experience of life for ourselves in this planet.

to not degenerate into further and further aspects of animalistic behavior,
but to ascend from these, as difficult as it may be, and achieve a higher plateau of existence.

quite a challenge.
but it can only be started from within.
each one of us changing ourselves within, and denying the robotic pre-destined programming of animalistic ego.
one by one..

all the suffering you see in the world is an extrapolated fractal display of the conditions that lay within the individual.

change the one .. this changes the broader picture dynamically.

to recognize the inner creative aspects..
and deny the redundant animalistic egos and nurture the higher ideals of charity, self-control, temperance, dilligence, chastity - (not burying and neglecting sexual energy, but using it in a refined manner as opposed to degraded unbridled repugnancy...)

I think your position stands, in comparison to the general idea of "god" as something fathomable that we can comprehend and compare nature to..

but in reality.. this "god" ... i find is more of an all-encompassing field of existence.. and to transcend into it's higher levels.. requires we release ourselves from it's lower levels... .the levels of which you speak.. the robotic pre-determined reactionary programmed levels.

there does exist free-will.

you just need to define it more acutely.. as something opposed to your base premise of cause and effect... try "free will" as something that in it's purest form... is something that powerfully rebels against that predeterminism... and all of it's vices.. and very tempting urges.


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[edit on 27-1-2009 by prevenge]

reply to post by Daniem


Abosolute hogwash...in my opinion.

You have total control over your thoughts alone. All else can be affected but not in totality.