Man refuses to drive 'No God' bus

Originally posted by TheRedneck

Much like a rat trying to get away from the snap that usually precedes a trap springing shut, our friend sotp is trying to run away now from his statements before. And like many rats in that situation, he has instead walked right into the heart of the trap. His prejudice and intolerance are now clear for all to see, who can see.

I am running from nothing. I stand by every statement I have made. I have no idea how you have mis-interpreted what I have written. Maybe you should go over it agan, then point out anywhere I may have contradicted myself. I am man enough to admit when I have been wrong, but I am not predjudiced, or intolerant. Have I not said several times that people should be allowed to believe or not believe in whatever they choose?

The driver has every right (and some, including me, would say a duty to self) to refuse to drive the bus. The bus company has every right to fire the driver for that refusal. It's called 'business'. It happens every day.

Why are we having this argument? That's exactly what I've been saying!

My concern is when armchair socialist advisors, most of whom have a long record on here of crying for civil rights and trying to point out how intolerant and prejudicial others are, now show their own colors when confronted with someone who uses their free will and civil liberties in opposition to their 'cause'.

Perhaps I made a mistake in judging you on your screen name, and for that I apologise, but most people have a different kind of pride in their screen name and that was the kind of pride I believed you to have. A crass assumption it seems, having read your subsequent post. So let me say sorry once more for any offence caused.

But as I've already said, I dont have a 'cause'. Other than pointing out the hypocrisy of those condemning the athiest advert while claiming there is nothing wrong with religious adverts, all I have said is that it would be better if both the religious and the atheists kept there beliefs private. That's not a 'cause', it's an opinion.


[edit on 17/1/09 by sotp]

reply to post by sotp

Apology accepted, and if I misjudged you, then please accept my apology as well.

My ire is at the posters who disagreed with my position (which appears to be very similar to yours), claiming enlightenment while displaying prejudice.

Peace

TheRedneck

Originally posted by sotp
You actually are advocating violence, and in a bad way. You basically implied that when no-one is around to stop you those people you don't agree with are in for a going over. You kinda sound like you were the school bully...

I said this? This my friend is nothing but your spin and a one side biased point of view. This is nothing more than what lawyers do. Take words that were said and manipulate them. Show me where I ever said I was working anyone over. Never a school bully. I was very well liked and associated with all crowds.I like how YOU IMPLY

Wow. You have some serious issues there. You seem to believe that a person can't contribute to society if they aren't built like tank.

Have I ever said anything about anyone's size and they can't/don't contribute unless they're huge? It's about the violence you claim I condone. Tell me violence isn't what this world was built on and I will realize I'm talking to a wall.

How many scientists throughout history have been big burly types? Albert Einstein? Hardly in the Dolph Lundgren league was he? Gave us the theory of relativity but couldn't drive a tank worth a damn! Marie Curie? Sure she won Nobel Prizes in two different disciplines but how many martial arts disciplines had she mastered? Useless. Stephen Hawking? What does it matter if he can help solve the mysteries of the universe? He can't jump out of a helicopter all guns blazing! The guy's got nothing on Bruce Willis!
Seriously, your comments on the 'weak and inferior' make you sound like a Nazi. Lay off the testosterone.

Scientists have contributed plenty to society and also plenty of destruction and weapons of death since you bring it up and I find them far from useless. But if you remember it was about violence I condone. Many of your brilliant scientists contribute much in the form of violence and death via weapons and chemicals.

Anyway, it's not only in America but in most of the Western world that people are creatures of comfort, be they big and strong or not. Yet most understand the concept that sometimes violence is necessary. You seem to be equating atheism with pacifism - it's not the same thing.

I'm not equating anything. You claimed I condone violence and I disagree but decided to point out some facts which you disagree with.And yes it is most of Western Civilization.

I have nothing but respect for those who have fought in wars for my freedom. Wherever did you get the idea I had a problem with them?

I was suggesting that since you were claiming I condone violence (which I don't but unfortunately, on occasion is neccessary) that you're so against it. If this is the case I would suggest you have an issue with people that volunteer to go to war and commit violent acts on an astronomical scale. Just a hunch. Guess I was wrong.

It's not racist.

Rednecks are not a race, they are a glorified clique.

yes I know their not a race but you should've understood the point I was trying to make since you were somehow able to twist the meaning of all my other words into something other than what they meant.

Here,I'm gonna say a word... ok....and you can write a post (distorting my words ) explaining how I said I'm a viloent baby murderer and eat their flesh for breakfast.

here's the word..... I

Originally posted by sotp

Why are we having this argument? That's exactly what I've been saying!

I see you've made a similar point!


Maybe I've taken your post the wrong way. If so, let me offer a further apology. In all honesty I've been awake for going on approaching 30 hours now, and things have been getting a little fuzzy for a while...

reply to post by Revealation


Oh I'm beginning to think I might owe you an apology too..as I say, things have been getting fuzzy, I think I may have taken your points about the prison & the physically inferior's negative non society contributing nonsense as a sign you were a violent person, I dunno anymore...So let me apologise before I pass out. Maybe you're just a big pussycat. I hope that really the case. This argument has been utterly pointless, hasn't it? Well, the Athiest vs Christian element of it anyway! I won't convince you and you won't convince me and there's little to no chance of that ever changing. Let's just agree to disagree on that one, eh?

Well anyway, apologies to any who have been caused offence by me in any way....goodnight....

Originally posted by machinegun_go_go
Precisely.

It seems as if it's one rule for Christians and one rule for everyone else. I'm almost tempted to find god myself just to see how much intolerance I can get away with!

I was thinking something similar to this. I'm sure this person can resign and find a job thats less offensive to their religion. A paycheck is a paycheck, there are plenty of people that would gladly have this Job that wouldn't be offended.

reply to post by sotp



LOL. No need to apologize. We are just stating our views or beliefs and I'm fine with that. No offence taken and I meant none towards you either.


[edit on 17/1/2009 by Revealation]

reply to post by machinegun_go_go



Well here's a clip of the naughty girl," Ariane Sherine" responsible for the bus thing, I for one would forgive her anything.

As for the driver ?

What, if he'd refused to drive the bus because Dawkins or a Muslim or a satanist was on board, he would be fired. Then he surely should be fired for refusing to drive the bus because he disagrees with the advertisement on it, the advertiser is paying his wages.

Incidentally, this advertising campaign is now spreading so we can expect to see more "Got is probably not real " on lamp posts and libraries ,schools etc.

The adverts are not copyrighted so anyone who would like to contribute can place a poster anywhere so as to get people thinking fro themselves.

Thank god for secularism then.







[edit on 17-1-2009 by moocowman]

Fire him, get someone else.
Simple, really.

reply to post by TheRedneck

You go drive what you want, and believe what you want. I will still salute the actions of a man who had enough courage and integrity to stand up and refuse to be forced into accepting something he did not agree with. My condolences that you do not have that kind of integrity.

So are we to assume that you will be defending the integrity of next secularist who has an abortion after having the courage not to accept the denouncing by Christianity ?

Will you be at the next lesbian wedding defending their courage and integrity when they stand up and refuse to be forced to accept others beliefs ?

reply to post by Razimus


He wouldn't get fired if he was a minority or illegal in the US. That would be considered racist, first and foremost. The Christian stance would not be in the mix.

This guy has a right to stand up for what he believes. Money can be made somewhere else. I would refuse to advertise such a thing on my web sites or any possession of mine. You couldn't offer me enough money to put that banner on my site.

For anyone who understands the reality of creation, for someone to advertise that there probably isn't a god, is like a knife to the heart. It is a very dangerous lie, that should not be forwarded. It denies everything that we are as spiritual beings. All of the power that we have as spiritual beings is said to not exist by making such a statement, but the power most certainly does exist. Things like OOBEs, ghosts, and telepathy are all part of spiritual phenomena. Saying there is no god is like saying there isn't a spirit.

The advertisement tries to shut our eyes and tell us that there isn't a creator. If we were to all believe this, it puts us one step closer to becoming easy to control "animals."

Troy

reply to post by moocowman

So are we to assume that you will be defending the integrity of next secularist who has an abortion after having the courage not to accept the denouncing by Christianity ?

Nope.

Neither will I be bombing the abortion clinic where it happened. It is their life, and while I might disagree with their actions, they are , for the time being, legal.

Will you be at the next lesbian wedding defending their courage and integrity when they stand up and refuse to be forced to accept others beliefs ?

Nope.

I believe marriage is something between a man and a woman. I also believe it should not be treated as a benefit in secular society. Not gonna get into that here, as this thread has quite enough tangents as it is.

Will YOU come to the aid of the people who are watching a donated display of the Ten Commandments being torn down by those whodo not even live in the area?

Will YOU fight for the Christian student who, after being given an essay assignment on "the historical person you admire most" with no other restriction, chose to write about Jesus and was given a failing grade for the stated reason that Jesus was not 'appropriate'?

I didn't think so. Now can we PLEASE get off the religious thing and back on topic? You can think about something besides religion, right? You do have enough neurons to contemplate things besides the existence of God, correct?

TheRedneck

Originally posted by cybertroy
For anyone who understands the reality of creation, for someone to advertise that there probably isn't a god, is like a knife to the heart. It is a very dangerous lie, that should not be forwarded. It denies everything that we are as spiritual beings. All of the power that we have as spiritual beings is said to not exist by making such a statement, but the power most certainly does exist. Things like OOBEs, ghosts, and telepathy are all part of spiritual phenomena. Saying there is no god is like saying there isn't a spirit.

The advertisement tries to shut our eyes and tell us that there isn't a creator. If we were to all believe this, it puts us one step closer to becoming easy to control "animals."

Troy

Since when does Atheism mean lack of spirituality?!? I know lots of atheists who are highly spiritual. They don't believe in a god, but they also recognize that we are all part of a singularity. Some of them believe in reincarnation, ESP, OBE, ghosts, etc., but they don't believe that there is a 'God'. I'm Agnostic, myself. I'm basically an atheist as I described many of my friends to be, but I believe that there is a possibility that there could be a higher power... just not like what is believed by the christian faith. I DO believe in an earth spirit collective (when we die, our energy goes SOMEWHERE, and the closest thing in most cases is the ground, earth). I believe that just the action of humans being intelligent, that the earth displays similar intelligence. With so much war and violence going on, the earth spirit collective will mimic this... the big dog will shake the fleas off eventually so it can get some much deserved rest.

Just the idea that you decided that Atheists aren't spiritual, or deny spirituality, really irks me, and puts you in the same boat as the guy in the article... ignorant and closed minded, and everyone must be converted and become believers, or they will lose their soul. I've been able to make MUCH stronger spiritual connection with the world I live in as an agnostic than I did when I believed anything else. You can say it's the devil's reward for serving him, or whatever, but I feel much less hateful since I decided that I felt there was no christian god.

Personally, I think it would be a relief to see a bus running around with no god on it after having to stare at every third car's damned 'Jesus Fish' and every 10th billboard plastered with something from the morman church, and every other church with a lit board telling all passer-by's to go to church or burn in hell. Honestly, I'm just sick of seeing ads on everything, religious or not. "Go to Church or Go to Hell!" "Take these diet pills, or risk being a fatty that nobody will have sex with" "Drink Coke... the cans are recyclable" "Viagra... it may kill you, but at least you'll get to have sex again"

Didn't mean to bash so hard, but seriously... I had to say SOMETHING... it's as frustrating to me to hear people claim crap about atheists and agnostics like you did as it is for a christian to listen to the bashings about how they believe in an imaginary being. BTW, I have seen ghosts, and a friend (OOB), but still no 'god'... but for now, I'm gonna let that drop. It's my belief, and it doesn't make me or anyone any less of a spiritual person. Spirituality has NOTHING to do with religion except that it can be incorporated into religion.

reply to post by Earthscum


"Didn't mean to bash so hard, but seriously... I had to say SOMETHING... "

Don't worry - They have to forgive you!

...Even if you don't apologize.

(Attacking Christians is Like shooting fish in a barrel... what are they gonna do about it - turn the other cheek?)

Originally posted by machinegun_go_go

This is outrageous. The man should should be fired or suspended. It is his job to drive the bus - not pass judgement on the advertisements it carries.

I can imagine what would happen if I turned up to work one day and refused to do my job based on what someone thought or said or wore!

Christians - literally - get away with murder just because of their religion.

Sickens me that nothing appears to has happened to this man.

Why can some people not even acknowledge alternate viewpoints?

Why on earth should his employers even consider going out of their way to pander to his notions of offending his imaginary friend?



Peace,

MGGG

news.bbc.co.uk
(visit the link for the full news article)

[edit on 16-1-2009 by machinegun_go_go]

I'm going to have to disagree with you, he has every right to not drive the bus, why the hell are atheists putting ads like this on buses anyhow? Christians run ads too but they don't say that everyone is going to hell in them either. The bus system is probably also state ran/sponsored/outsourced which adds a massive reason why he has every right to not drive the bus. As for Christians getting away with murder? What? We don't live in the 1400s, give me one instance where a Christian gets away with murder because of their religion.

[edit on 18-1-2009 by yellowcard]

Originally posted by Enigma Publius

But to be fair, to a Christian or Muslum the outcome changes dramaticly. They have a belief in a way that tells them they must not, at any cost, jeopardize this belief, i do not blame this man one bit.

Trimmed the quote too much maybe, but come on, are you really suggesting that if this man drives a bus with an ad on the side that he had nothing to do with and that he doesn't personally agree with, that GOD will mistake his actions as a denouncement of his faith and he won't get into heaven?

I thought GOD was a bit smarter than that!

[edit on 18/1/09 by RogerT]

reply to post by moocowman


Brilliant.

What a very creative and inspired action from one so young (and so cute!)

Renews my hope for the future when young people can still bring some lightness of being into this very dark and heavy world.

Cheered up my day that video, thanks for posting it

Originally posted by RogerT
come on, are you really suggesting that if this man drives a bus with an ad on the side that he had nothing to do with and that he doesn't personally agree with, that GOD will mistake his actions as a denouncement of his faith and he won't get into heaven?

I thought GOD was a bit smarter than that!

[edit on 18/1/09 by RogerT]

Funny thing is that alot of these christians believe that we all sin no matter what and that you just have to do your best and that god will forgive you as long as you realize your sins and repent (or whatever), which makes this guy a total freak... if he's alive (according to some) then he is sinning. By driving a bus with that on the side, he would only be adding to his sins... procuring that message to others (obviously) as well as greed... if he drove the bus, he would be putting money above morals. Howeveer, to counter that, if he drove the bus because he needed the money for family, then he would be putting others ahead of his own morality. By not driving the bus, he gets the guilt-free way out AND god points.

Basically, if he just said screw it and drove the bus, and tell god when he dies "I understand that it was wrong, but I had a job to do, and that was driving people around the city. I couldn't quit my job because of a stupid advertisement, just as you can't quit your job because of a handful of unbelievers". That's reasonable to me.

First, I have to say that although I'm slightly appalled at the idea that someone should refuse to drive a bus because they're a Christian, I'm still slightly envious of his tenacity.

Years ago I used to work as a musician on cruise ships, and at the time of the illegal invasion of Iraq I was on a route based in Galveston, Tx.

The utter, utter nadir of my week was a nauseating spectacle called "the friendship parade" in which I had to take part. Friday nights, in between shows in the main lounge, the band would troop down to the atrium in the centre of the ship and accompany the singers as they led an enthusiastic crowd of passengers in singing patriotic songs. Meanwhile all the cabin stewards and waiters off duty at the time, plus a selection of officers, would parade through waving a variety of flags in which Old Glory was preponderant. (Sound of projectile vomiting as the memory comes back,)

I asked the bandleader if I could bow out of this revolting display, and he offered me a flight home. I chose to stay, and contented myself with glaring into the camera lens of any tourist who tried to film me, and sneaking in the melody to "Deutschland Uber Alles" whenever the opportunity presented itself. I didn't have the guts to do otherwise. I rather wish I had.

Of course, as in any hierarchical society, there are winners and losers. I was kind of mates with the Brit security officer - nice guy, ex-SAS but relatively sane for all that. I said to him one day, "you know, I never see you at the Lackwits' Parade," (I didn't use the word "lackwit" - most of the letters are the same, but the word I used begins with an 'f') and he said, "God, no. I don't have to debase myself with that (expletive deleted)."

Lucky sod.

So where do we draw the line? Should anyone be able to not work whenever anything upsets them? It would be ANARCHYYYY!!!

Frankly, I'm all for a bit of that.

I think what I find distasteful, really, is that, as another poster has remarked, there's something rather smug about this man. And the ability of people to be smug about imaginary things like the Christian God does, I admit, get right up my nose.

Regardless of what the bus would be advertising I would probably drive it.
Just because someone allows certain advertisements on their bus does not mean that they have a certain viewpoint of it.

Someone also made a comparison with those sandwich billboards some people walk around in, it's not the same.
The purpose of the bus is transportation, and it happens to have adverts on it.
The purpose of the sandwich billboard is to advertise.

In any case, if for some reason this person decides to demand the Atheïst ads to be removed from the bus, I would like to see all Atheïst to shout out about any religion promoting ads or events.

I do understand his point of view though (I think.)

But then again, I can respect and understand anybody's point of view, the only thing is whether I accept it and act on their decision.