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Why are there so many Masons on ATS?

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posted on Jan, 18 2009 @ 09:25 AM
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Originally posted by mister.old.school
However, one notion continues to surprise me and has surprised me throughout the years -- why has there been no effort from Masonic governance to proactively redress what the "ATS Masons" believe are misconceptions?


Because there is no such thing as "Masonic governance" in the sense of an over-arching body that oversees and directs Freemasonry world-wide. Provincial and state Grand Lodges provide information about Freemasonry actually IS as opposed to off-the-wall allegations. But it's up to you to seek out a balanced overview yourself, not someone else's to spoon-feed it to you.


Originally posted by mister.old.school
Masonic involvement in nefarious deeds of the ultra-wealthy and upper-tier persons in governments have been speculated upon for decades by inquiring minds.


Wanna guess what the operative word in that sentence?


Originally posted by mister.old.school
Certainly, there is no secret as to the points of view of hundreds, if not thousands of vocal conspiracy-minded people.


Out of some six billion people on the planet, that means that (at best) 0.000016665% of the world's population are "conspiracy-minded people".


Originally posted by mister.old.school
Why has there been no official effort, by Masonry, to provide evidence and education to "correct" these theories and blanket accusations?


As I said earlier, Freemasonry isn't a monolithic, centralised entity like IBM or MS; each Grand Lodge is separate unto itself. And to use an old turn of phrase, "you can lead a horse to water.....". I'll let you finish it off.


Originally posted by mister.old.school
Perhaps such an acknowledgment and informational campaign would do much to calm the fears of we poor misguided conspiracy theorists.


The information is there. If conspiracy theorists want to believe something different, there's precious little difference that any kind of "official" statement would make.




posted on Jan, 18 2009 @ 10:29 AM
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My guess is boredom, the same emotion that drives people to join "secret" societies, learn "secret" handshakes and other nonsense most people outgrow in elementary school.
Guys, you are giving this group way too much credit. Two hundred years ago it may have been a potent force but nowadays it's all about social networking and alleviating its members desire for ritual, no matter how stupid it looks to an outsider. My great-granddad was a 34th degree Mason and even he agreed with that. It's hooey.



posted on Jan, 18 2009 @ 11:59 AM
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Originally posted by emsed1
It's because EVERY freemasonry thread is about bashing us.

I imagine if there were threads like 'Asians are Pedophiles', 'Hindus Stalk People' or 'Catholic Cops and Judges let Other Catholics Kill People and Walk Free' you would see a huge number of those groups replying.

I would not expect to go onto a religious forum and post 'Christians Suck' and then be surprised if there was a reaction.


Yes, it does seem as if every free mason post is about bashing you guys.
I sympathise with you, and as a Christian, with all those "Christians Suck" posts, I understand what you mean and believe that you have every right to defend what is being said about you..



Originally posted by RuneSpider
Doesn't matter if they are true or not, the myths get pushed as fact and, like all good rumours, get repeated in other places as well.


Like the owl supposedly symbolising 'Moloc'


Originally posted by LowLevelMason
There are no "high level masons" and what one mason knows all of us do - which you are quite correct, really isn't a big deal. This whole "levels" thing is a conspiracy theory construct that doesn't exist in real life.

Unless I am misunderstanding you...
This is almost as daft a statement as owls supposedly symbolising 'Moloc', especially seeing as your handle is "LowLevelMason". If there are low levels, there are high levels too. My grandfather was a mason and he told me there were levels, referred to as degrees...but you would know this, so I don't understand why you would say there aren't?



posted on Jan, 18 2009 @ 12:43 PM
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reply to post by the siren
 


LowLevelMason apparently needs to change his name. Instead of a bit of irony, it seems people take his name seriously.

He chose it because of all the posts and theories that claim there are low level and high levels.

There are degrees, in fact there are three important degrees.

The third degree, and for several Masons the last degree, is the Master Mason.
After the Master Mason degree the Mason is able to take part as a officer in his Lodge and is eligible for a role in the general structure of the organization.

Aside from the three degrees, there are several side orders and degree systems a Mason can be a part of, most obvious in the States would be the York Rite and Scottish Rite.
However, a Scottish Rite mason or York Rite mason is in no way higher ranked than a Master Mason. While within thir own system they may be of the 32nd degree, they are still 3rd degree Master Mason as recognized by the Blue Lodge, or the main part of Masonry.



posted on Jan, 18 2009 @ 12:50 PM
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reply to post by RuneSpider
 


As an adjunct to Runespider's post, I'd posit this for those who insist 33rd° > 3rd °

33" or 3': which is larger? Same things with the side rites.



posted on Jan, 18 2009 @ 01:02 PM
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reply to post by RuneSpider
 


I know, its seriously beginning to annoy me. I wonder if I created the name "BarackHObama" if people would believe I was the President Elect? I have changed my signature to make it obvious now, and if I can figure out a more obvious way by tweaking my forum titles (any ideas?).



posted on Jan, 18 2009 @ 01:09 PM
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Originally posted by the siren
Unless I am misunderstanding you...
This is almost as daft a statement as owls supposedly symbolising 'Moloc', especially seeing as your handle is "LowLevelMason". If there are low levels, there are high levels too. My grandfather was a mason and he told me there were levels, referred to as degrees...but you would know this, so I don't understand why you would say there aren't?


Degrees are not levels in the sense that the word is commonly used. Levels as used by conspiracy theorists corresponds with "rank" or "power" or something else which indicates that some sort of inner-organization hierarchy exists.

There are three actual ranks in freemasonry, which are the 1st through the 3rd degrees. These take about 2-6 months to go through depending on how you pace yourself, and the 3rd degree is the "highest" (in terms of "levels") degree you can achieve. All degrees after that are from SIDE orders which do not confer ranks or levels.

As RuneSpider points out, my name is a sarcastic remark on people who believe in the whole high/low level mason thing. See my signature.



posted on Jan, 18 2009 @ 03:03 PM
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Originally posted by TruthDefender
First, Conspiracy Theorists never bash freemason, BUT we all witness
and so every day on many threads, Freemasons who bash Conspiracy
Theorists, with insults and agresive behaviors. so please stop this little
game your're trying to play to control the truth about CTs honest goals

WTF!? All I've seen, not just on this site, is how Masons are evil, satan worshipers, pedophiles, criminals, etc. And all I see is how you are all trying to harass or stalk them to disrupt their lives.


Originally posted by TruthDefender
freemasonry like any other religion...

---

...it is the same for the religion of freemasonry.

Freemasonry is not a religion. We offer no salvation, no theology, no priesthood, etc. There is no Freemason god; a Mason worships his God in accordance with his religions belief. Freemasonry consists of men of many faiths so religion is not talked about in Lodge and is the reason we use a generic name for God.


Originally posted by trueforger
Hele actually means to LIE about the thing,as was explained to me.

Hele means many things. To lie is not one of them. You were sadly misinformed.


Originally posted by trueforger
Hele is a code word consisting of two words combined and shortened to conceal the meaning of the command to duty of obligation of serious blood oaths like having your tongue torn out if you talk.The words are "he" and "lie" with the "i" omitted.

Talk about reaching. Whoever told you this was making stuff up.


Originally posted by trueforger
A form of lying is not speaking up, such as the Masonic dictum of never speaking ill of a brother Mason, which allowed the Cheney regime to steal two elections and ruin as much as possible with nary a peep from the lesser leaders all throughout this land.

Cheney nor Bush is a Mason.


Originally posted by trueforger
And finally,to answer the query of where did I pick up this bit of belief?The hint I will give as to who spilled the beans is to allude to the alcohol drinking that is MANDATORY at Lodge.

Whoever was spilling the beans was lying to you. Alcohol cannot be used at the Lodge since we do not have a license. Our Grand Lodge passed legislation forbidding the use of it. Plus we are taught to live our lives in moderation and never in excess.

This right here proves to me that whoever you got your information from was lying or not a Mason.

reply to post by secretagent woooman
 

There is no 34th degree.

[edit on 18-1-2009 by KSigMason]



posted on Jan, 18 2009 @ 03:33 PM
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Thanks for the concise explanation guys.

I'd always assumed the 33rd degree, etc were recognised levels within the main mason order.

So any guess as to why the side orders have so many degrees?


Originally posted by LowLevelMason
I wonder if I created the name "BarackHObama" if people would believe I was the President Elect? I have changed my signature to make it obvious now, and if I can figure out a more obvious way by tweaking my forum titles (any ideas?).

You must understand that those of us that are not masons can only speculate as to what goes on, so if we hear about 33rd degree masons, naturally we're thinking they are sort of elite in some way...so I think a lot of people are going to miss the irony.

As for suggestions, you could create a thread regarding mason levels and place a link to it from your signature, then you won't have to keep repeating yourself.

[edit on 2009.1/18 by the siren]



posted on Jan, 18 2009 @ 03:48 PM
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Originally posted by the siren
Thanks for the concise explanation guys.

I'd always assumed the 33rd degree, etc were recognised levels within the main mason order.

So any guess as to why the side orders have so many degrees?


Originally posted by LowLevelMason
I wonder if I created the name "BarackHObama" if people would believe I was the President Elect? I have changed my signature to make it obvious now, and if I can figure out a more obvious way by tweaking my forum titles (any ideas?).

You must understand that those of us that are not masons can only speculate as to what goes on, so if we hear about 33rd degree masons, naturally we're thinking they are sort of elite in some way...so I think a lot of people are going to miss the irony.

As for suggestions, you could create a thread regarding mason levels and place a link to it from your signature, then you won't have to keep repeating yourself.

[edit on 2009.1/18 by the siren]

\
We just thank you for your understanding and open mind. There have been posts that explain the degree system, but those type of posts are generally ignored or called disinformation on ATS. I will try and find those threads for you though, Ill post them later.



posted on Jan, 18 2009 @ 03:53 PM
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reply to post by the siren
 


An excellent point. One of the threads that I tried to create to explain the real "system" is here. As you can see it quickly became derailed, ignored, and called disinformation.

The side orders I think end up having so many degrees because there is just so many ways to expand upon the lessons of the blue lodge. That is essentially what every side degree does - expand upon blue lodge teachings. There are a infinite ways to do this, we just came up with quite a few and turned them into side degrees.



posted on Jan, 18 2009 @ 03:56 PM
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Originally posted by the siren
As for suggestions, you could create a thread regarding mason levels and place a link to it from your signature, then you won't have to keep repeating yourself.


Truthfully, siren, the information is out there if one is predisposed to spend the 17 nanoseconds that it takes to find it. However, because it's 'official', it's deemed by those so predisposed to be disinformation. You wanna talk about a no-win kind of situation.

actual Freemasons are typically met by one of two responses if we naysay something particularly wild and wooly that someone has posted about Freemasonry. Either

a) We're agents of Freemasonry (either paid or volunteer) with an agenda of disinformation

or

b) No matter what our degree, we aren't at a high enough level to be actually aware of/trusted with the 'true' nature of Freemasonry which the fearless Google researcher has discovered from the comfort of his keyboard. This despite the hours, days and years that are collectively spent improving and enlightening ourselves as men and as Masons.

Freemasonry answers a need for some in terms of having a group of individuals to blame and serves as a focus for their negative energies. It's almost Orwellian to be on the receiving end of a 1984-like 3-minute daily hate. To steal a line from the X-files, "the truth is out there". I mean, you can Google it. Or if you don't trust the Web, you can get The Dummies Guide to Freemasonry© or Freemasonry for Idiots© from your local Chapters or Amazon or whathaveyou and which give a pretty detailed and accurate explanation of the rites.

The details of the rites (which haven't changed hugely in nearly three centuries) have been available in book form since about 1725. So, it isn't an absence of information that keeps the same topics coming up again and again and again; it's a need for some to have someone else to blame for.....for......whatever ails and/or vexes them.

HTH
Fitz



posted on Jan, 18 2009 @ 04:02 PM
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reply to post by Fitzgibbon
 


Well said Brother. Excuse the one- liner Mods.



posted on Jan, 18 2009 @ 04:28 PM
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reply to post by KSigMason
 

"Hele means many things",such as..???

You gotta be kidding yourself if you think I will accept the statement that Masons don't drink,nothing smells like booze and I have smelled it lots of times on the breath of this and other persons after masonic functions.And he's not a liar,nor am I.

We had a misfortunate crash of Shriners at a parade,where a couple of those little cars crashed into a girl,I was right there and helped at the scene to pull the car off and the driver was definitely drinking and it was a scandal because he was going to not be charged!!Only in Madison,the outcry got the attention required to put a stop to that.

And it is already well known that Skull & Bones is closely tied to your group through cross memberships and the similarities speak for themselves.Hele indeed.

PS I dare you to say anything truthful (and bad)about the massive failures of Cheney and Co. mentioning Bush by name.

[edit on 18-1-2009 by trueforger]



posted on Jan, 18 2009 @ 04:31 PM
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Originally posted by trueforger
reply to post by KSigMason
 

"Hele means many things",such as..???

You gotta be kidding yourself if you think I will accept the statement that Masons don't drink,nothing smells like booze and I have smelled it lots of times on the breath of this and other persons after masonic functions.And he's not a liar,nor am I.

We had a misfortunate crash of Shriners at a parade,where a couple of those little cars crashed into a girl,I was right there and helped at the scene to pull the car off and the driver was definitely drinking and it was a scandal because he was going to not be charged!!Only in Madison,the outcry got the attention required to put a stop to that.

And it is already well known that Skull & Bones is closely tied to your group through cross memberships and the similarities speak for themselves.Hele indeed.


Who said masons dont drink alcohol? Hell I am a mason and I drink alcohol. The key is not to over-indulge, and besides that, drinking is not condoned IN THE LODGE. As we all know, Anything in excess is bad for you. As far as the Shriner crashing, I dont know the details on that so I can not address that. Skull and Bones is not a Masonic organization, body, degree, or appendant body.

[edit on 18-1-2009 by On_The_Level]

[edit on 18-1-2009 by On_The_Level]



posted on Jan, 18 2009 @ 06:41 PM
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Thanks for all of your replies, I think I see now why there are so many masons on ATS.

Masons are seekers of knowledge, that's why they become masons to begin with, they seek out things that normal people don't give a second though about, and this site has a lot of knowledge, true and false, and while their seeking they stumble on a lot of false stuff they want to correct, which is understandable.



posted on Jan, 18 2009 @ 08:13 PM
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reply to post by Razimus
 


Razimus, is your lodge in Isreal and is your rituals in your Lodge are the
same as in North America and Europe. Tks



posted on Jan, 18 2009 @ 08:16 PM
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Originally posted by Revolution-2012
1) To defend their kind, for they see it necessary given if they really didn't give a flying donkey fecal matter they would probably look less elusive. (alas look at my signature)

2) To more than likely dismiss any kind of 9/11, alien, alternative science as nothing more than "proofless"

3) To be pompous and all knowing.

4) And for this reason I don't know but they are here in a plethra of numbers.



Having read that post, you are obviously not here to deny ignorance are you

Im not mason, I have no mason connections etc, but this is the kind of post that leads me to believe ATS is not becoming a better place



posted on Jan, 18 2009 @ 08:55 PM
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Originally posted by Fitzgibbon
Because there is no such thing as "Masonic governance" in the sense of an over-arching body that oversees and directs Freemasonry world-wide.


I believe you may be mistaken --

The United Grand Lodge of England
"The United Grand Lodge of England is the governing body of Freemasonry in England, Wales and the Channel Islands."

The Supreme Council Ancient & Accepted Scottish Rite
The House of the Temple, headquarters of the Scottish Rite of Freemasonry in the Southern Jurisdiction, is located in Washington, D.C

-- here you see at least two clear examples of "governing bodies."




Wanna guess what the operative word in that sentence?

If you would be so kind as to provide elucidation.




Out of some six billion people on the planet, that means that (at best) 0.000016665% of the world's population are "conspiracy-minded people".

Could you explain your math? And, if such is the case, why waste your time here arguing with such a small and insignificant segment?




The information is there. If conspiracy theorists want to believe something different, there's precious little difference that any kind of "official" statement would make.

Are you referring to the all-too-often combative and argumentative contributions by anonymous individuals with pithy pseudonyms who appear to be stalking conspiracy theory discussions and ganging up on those who would theorize as to the apparent cause of masonic involvement in troubling global events throughout history?

Hardly authoritative, no?



posted on Jan, 18 2009 @ 09:16 PM
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Originally posted by mister.old.school
Because there is no such thing as "Masonic governance" in the sense of an over-arching body that oversees and directs Freemasonry world-wide.



Originally posted by mister.old.school
I believe you may be mistaken --


Actually, you are quite mistaken. Fitzgibbon said world-wide. The UGLE oversees the blue lodge in England, and England only. The Scottish Rite, as you also quoted, heads the southern jurisdiction of the USA, which is roughly the the southern part of the country. Its also a side body, separate from the blue lodge.


Originally posted by mister.old.school
-- here you see at least two clear examples of "governing bodies."


Which is not what he said - he said world-wide bodies. These are separate independent bodies and neither has power over the other.


Originally posted by mister.old.school
Could you explain your math? And, if such is the case, why waste your time here arguing with such a small and insignificant segment?


Because denying ignorance is important. All it takes is a small group to spread ignorance.



Originally posted by mister.old.school
Are you referring to the all-too-often combative and argumentative contributions by anonymous individuals with pithy pseudonyms who appear to be stalking conspiracy theory discussions and ganging up on those who would theorize as to the apparent cause of masonic involvement in troubling global events throughout history?

Hardly authoritative, no?


Uh-oh, someones upset that the masons are here to debunk him
Of course, I am pretty sure Fitz would agree he is referring to the remarkable abundance of evidence on google and libraries across the world that show there has been no "apparent cause of masonic involvement in troubling global events."

However, this is typical of those conspiracy theorists who do not wish to learn the truth: when the truth isn't what you want to be, deny, deny, deny and make up something to cover it up! Just ignore the facts and accuse those evil old masons of ganging up on you and stalking you while you make up anything and everything to hide yourself from the truth


[edit on 18-1-2009 by LowLevelMason]



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