Israel warns Lebanon of massive war

I find it oddly amusing that so many people on this thread think that Israel cannot handle a war on multiple fromts against multiple nations.

Have you all forgotten what happened the last couple of times Israel was in that same position?

I was pretty young at the time, but from all accounts I have read regarding those wars Israel kicked some major booty.

[edit on 16-1-2009 by craig732]

Originally posted by golemina
Nah... The maps don't support that statement. The partition was draw up in '47. It had the lions share of the turf going to those Israelis guys.

Actually, the maps do support what I said:



It might not be exactly 50/50, but it's certainly bloody close. Now look at what Israel has grabbed since then in this sequence of maps detailing just how much land they have lost:

Originally posted by golemina
Sorry again. Just doesn't jive with the facts.

I actually present facts in my posts, I have seen nothing of the sort from you. You post your opinion and expect us to believe what you say without any supporting evidence.

'Palestinians' are pissed off, because of their culture. They are ALWAYS feuding about something or with someone.

Not true. Prior to the British Mandate, where the only terrorism was by Jewish Irgun against the British and local pouplation, Palestine was a peaceful province of the Ottoman Empire for hundreds of years.

Which, coincidentally, has a lot to do why no one really wants to take these guys in...

No it isn't, actually. The reason why the surrounding Arab populations don't want large refugee camps in their lands is multi-faceted. Mainly due to the instability that such a thing would bring, but also because to accept the refugees would be showing the world that they tacitly accept Israel existing. Jordan may have a peace treaty now, but they had major problems with the palestinians revolting in the past and ejected most of them.

And therefore why they are PARKED in Gaza.

They are "parked" in gaza because Israel ejected them and no one else will help them. Those that tried in the past, failed. Although the Arab Legion did manage to fight the IDF to a standstill, Syria and Egypt's militaries failed miserably in their objectives and the Legion had to pull back.

Your use of the term 'ethnic cleansing' is also not used appropriately.

Actually, I think it is. There are many reports of massacres, ejections and forced reolcations by the Israeli's on the Arab population in the run up too and immediately following the partition.

It's always amazing to me how apologists for the Arab behavior always seem to imply (or sometimes state openly) that they aren't responsible for their own behavior.

They're not. One day they woke up and the newly formed UN split the land they had lived on for 2 millenia. Not only that, but the new "owners" then forcefully ejected any people they perceived to be undesirable in the new "Jewish" state.

The truth is...

If they want the carnage to stop... they need to start behaving like they understand what the concept of civilization is supposed to represent.

You dig?

Civilisation? What civilised people will take land from one population and give it to another without their concent?

[edit on 17/1/09 by stumason]

Originally posted by craig732
I was pretty young at the time, but from all accounts I have read regarding those wars Israel kicked some major booty.

That was over 40 years ago when the Arab militaries suffered from poor training and poor leadership. Their officers would often either blindly obey orders because it was their social superior or tribal elder, or they would refuse because to obey an order would hurt their own social standing. This is endemic in the Arab militaries of the time.

Except for the Arab Legion, that is. It was the only Arab army to actually hold their ground against the IDF. This is no doubt because the officer corps of the Legion was either British trained or actual British officers. The Legion became the Jordanian Army, which is probably the best trained and equipped, for it's size, in the region even today.

I am quite sure that the other Arab Armies have improved their training and officer corps and could hurt Israel in a conflict. Hezbollah did a bloody good job against the IDF because they had high esprit du corps, good weaponry and where well trained in their tactics. It goes to show what can be achieved with a bit of training and decent equipment and it's got nothing to do with the supposed Jewish status as the "Chosen People" or God's divine favour.

Originally posted by golemina

>'Considering that the original partition, before Israel annexed a load more land, had the land split almost 50/50, what do you say about the subject now?'

Nah... The maps don't support that statement. The partition was draw up in '47. It had the lions share of the turf going to those Israelis guys.

I've seen you post this several times but never post the actual maps. I call BS. Please post your evidence.

According to the original allocation by the British Mandate, Israel has expanded it's borders by force.

According to the voice of the majority of the world (the UN) Israel is illegally occupying stolen land.

IMO, it's understandable that Israel wants to defend themselves. Like someone said, if Canada launched some missiles over here to bomb an American city, how would we react? We'd waste no time and probably destroy half of our northern neighbor's land.

However, there'd be no doubt America will get involved military wise with this situation that's happening over there.

Time will tell.

Originally posted by Vitchilo


So the original source is a lebanese paper. So you judge the credibility by yourself.

And so according to this paper, Israel warned that a bombing campaign would be waged against Lebanon if others rockets were to hit Israel from Lebanon. Me thinks it would be easy to stage a war with that kind of rhetoric if Israel wanted to go in Lebanon with a pretext. They are keeping their options open.

Those rockets were not launched by Hezbollah, but probably by people angry at Israel. Even Israel admitted that it was old rockets that Hezbollah have not used since many years.

Tel Aviv had formerly notified the United Nations Interim Force in Lebanon (UNIFIL) that it was about to attack the country after the rocket attacks came but it had changed its mind upon international advice, daily As-Safir reported.

So another revelation from this paper, Israel thought about attacking Lebanon, but backed off due to international advice..

Interesting article.

www.presstv.ir
(visit the link for the full news article)

By that assertion we should never believe anything in our news papers because it came from an American source which could be biased.

reply to post by RogerT


You call BS?

It's not like I've got a horse in this race... So, what do I care?

If you are a student of history look at the '47 maps.

Otherwise... I LOVE you man!

reply to post by stumason


>'Civilisation? What civilised people will take land from one population and give it to another without their concent?'

Come on StuMason... You can do it!!

Give up the hate!

Just say after me...

I AM an intelligent human being. EVERYONE stop the carnage.

We've been through those maps before. Look carefully at the dates. These "maps" are skewered in the timeline that they examine specifically skewered to make it look as thought Israel has been steadily encroaching on Jordanian and Egyptian land.

When attacked in late 1948, and early 1949, Israel picked up a bit of land.

In June of 1967, they picked up a ton of land. You'll note the dates on that 1967 map are pre-war. Much different SIX DAYS later.

In 1973, that land ownership was validated.

Since then Israel has given Egypt back their lands, and Egypt refused Gaza.

No one wants these people.

reply to post by golemina


I have looked at the maps, 2 of which Stu Mason posted just a couple above my post.

They don't support your position, in fact they contradict it.

I understand you don't care. You aren't that interested in reality then? It's a common theme amongst the pro-Israeli War posters. Denial, delusion or a simple excess of ignorance.

I've also seen you post that you're not taking sides - it sure doesn't look like that. You seem fairly solidly planted in the 'defend the Israeli War' camp.

Originally posted by craig732
I find it oddly amusing that so many people on this thread think that Israel cannot handle a war on multiple fromts against multiple nations.

Have you all forgotten what happened the last couple of times Israel was in that same position?

I was pretty young at the time, but from all accounts I have read regarding those wars Israel kicked some major booty.

[edit on 16-1-2009 by craig732]

That belongs to history

The strategic and tactic situation has been changed

DID YOU FORGOTTEN the IDF defeat in Lebanon 2006?

Obviously you have

reply to post by donhuangenaro

Twisted logic here when Israel stopped the rocket fire in the North from Hisbollah. Lebanon 2006 worked in keeping Israels north safe. Even that Sheik Nasrallah said he regretted getting involved with Israel, note how he has stopped his violence towards Israel since 2006 incursion.

Originally posted by donhuangenaro

Originally posted by craig732
I find it oddly amusing that so many people on this thread think that Israel cannot handle a war on multiple fromts against multiple nations.

Have you all forgotten what happened the last couple of times Israel was in that same position?

I was pretty young at the time, but from all accounts I have read regarding those wars Israel kicked some major booty.

[edit on 16-1-2009 by craig732]

That belongs to history

The strategic and tactic situation has been changed

DID YOU FORGOTTEN the IDF defeat in Lebanon 2006?

Obviously you have

Wow, I really don't know what to say to that.

Israel's casualties were about 1/10th of Lebanon's.

Monetary costs of damage in Lebanon were almost double that of Israel's.

I could continue this list, but please save me the time and do a little research on the matter yourself. You will find that Lebanon fared MUCH worse than Israel.

reply to post by RogerT


So sorry RogerT. You big time wrong!



I can plainly see you just make it up as your go... You seem to have confused me, golem, with someone else...

Let me you out there, big guy.



I'm hearing a lot of revisionist windmill tilting on the map thing.

Psst. The land WAS partitioned fairly close to the '47 maps. Your '46 stuff... totally bogus. (Cough TransJordan! )

If you have a problem with that... take it up with all those dead British guys.

It shouldn't be too tough to bring them around to your way of 'thinking'. Especially, with exhibits containing terms like 'genocide'.

I'm sure we can dig them up to satisfy this 'Jews are evil', 'Jews steal land', 'Jews drink blood' (I'm sorry, were you on board with that one too? ) series of obsessions some pro-terrorists seem to need to support their desire for MORE carnage.

You might want to reread my stuff... I'm anti-carnage bro.

As such I would like you to change your vote from 'Kill! Kill! Kill! (Especially those Jews!)' to...

I AM an intelligent human being. EVERYONE stop shooting.

Just imagine the possibilities!





[edit on 18-1-2009 by golemina]