Appointed date with death or accidents happen?

I have heard it said many times and in fact I have said it myself...when someone that we know has died the old "well it was their time", or " it was part of God's plan" or " it was meant to be and you shouldn't question it". I am sure there are many more examples.
I have been thinking about this after a couple of local accidents, one of which involved 4 teenaged boys that were duck hunting on the lake when the boat they were in capsized.
Only one survived. Was it just the other 3 boys "time", or was there no reason at all for it other than it was just an accident? Another example, My father in law was killed on his job 3 years ago when a crane fell on him. He was 18 minutes away from clocking out and going home...was it his time, or again just an accident...
I truly want to understand and would love to hear what some others take is on this subject.

Well if you believe in an omnipotent, omniscient, omnipresent God then it goes to reason that everything is part of his/her/its plan, and everything happens at the time he/she/it chooses. If you believe that there is not a God and that existence is just the reaction of the big bang, then accidents happen.

reply to post by cancerian42

I do believe in a higher power, but I also believe that alot of things are attributed to "God" that maybe shouldn't be. I am very confused to be honest with you!

How can something not be attributed to God, the creator of all?

reply to post by Greenize


Take your pick. neither are wrong. Heath Ledger is classified as an "accidental death" from overdose of anxiety and sleeping pills.
people die from accidentally shooting themselves and loved ones.

all an accident really is, is what is not intended. But death is inevitable. We are basically intended to die (based on the definition of physical death).

So unless I am mistaken, when we die It is never an accident, but inevitable. It is only a matter of when. I think we sugar coat death with accidents, because it helps a cope with the matter. we usually just compare it with intentional deaths like suicide and murder, all else is just accidental.

reply to post by juveous

Well, let me ask you this, do you think that Heath's manner of death was pre-determined? Was it by design or was it accidental...that is what I want to understand.



[edit on 15-1-2009 by Greenize]

Originally posted by Greenize
reply to post by juveous

 

Well, let me ask you this, do you think that Heath's manner of death was pre-determined? Was it by design or was it accidental...that is what I want to understand.

Then this is nothing about whether or not deaths are purposeful or random, but whether we are fated or not.

every death is necessary in the cycle of life, it is the manner in which it comes at us which we are not comfortable with IMO. So to answer you question about Heath, to an unfortunate degree he is gone, maybe even before our given standard for living-out which is roughly 75 years or so, but it was no accident.

If you are wondering if their is some divine plan in or not, who knows, even though I can give you my opinion.

Everything has a purpose IMO, in which our personal perspective creates the relationship with that purpose, good or bad. We are fated, but incapable of proving that we are fated, it is a matter of observation after the fact. there are undertermined outcomes, which could all be known (theoretically) so to say death is "designed" to happen is only agreeing that death is known as a possible determinable outcome.

If you believe that God is all knowing of all outcomes, and God is the creator of all by design, then every death is designed by God. It is your perspective to the relationship of the death that determines how you feel about it, good or bad.

To say that some deaths are just accidental, or not a part of the plan, but rather flukes, is really just our inability to know what is about to happen. They are unexpected, even though we all are expected to die.

reply to post by juveous

Thank you, that makes sense. If I may pick your brain a bit more please...the day that my father in law was killed, there was a younger man standing under the crane, we were told that my father in law pushed this man out of the way of the falling crane, therefore saving the younger mans life and putting himself in the path of the fatal blow...who was supposed to die that day? Did he interfere in the plan or did it play out the way it was meant to?

Originally posted by Greenize
reply to post by juveous

 

Thank you, that makes sense. If I may pick your brain a bit more please...the day that my father in law was killed, there was a younger man standing under the crane, we were told that my father in law pushed this man out of the way of the falling crane, therefore saving the younger mans life and putting himself in the path of the fatal blow...who was supposed to die that day? Did he interfere in the plan or did it play out the way it was meant to?

When talking about interference and "divine intervention", I can't help to think of all the instances where one would sure like to see it. It almost seems if it happens it would be considered cheating. But asking who was "really" meant to die is only known after the fact. At the beginning of that day, in the many possible outcomes that could have happened, who could have known the crane was going to even fall? what your father in law did deserves honorable mention, but I would not look at things as a matter of if he was "chosen" to die. but rather that when we die it is one of all outcomes, as to others where we could have lived. Purpose and intention are about knowing why things happen through explanation. It is like we always want an explanation. Why me? why you? why him/her?
Just saying it was supposed to happen is not good enough, we want to know why and make sense of what is unexpected. Constantly curious with the true nature of reason. Hopefully in the facets of what we do not know, we will be humble with our own narrations to accept there are many that might be correct. Even some that can mutually create peace.

reply to post by juveous

Thank you again! I have run things through my mind a million times and could never make any sense of it. I appreciate your thoughts!

My brother worked for a big steel company and one of his buddies was major causing trouble with the union just before he was suppose to retire....

Two days before his retirement, he was cut in half by a large truck that backed into him. They kept him alive long enough to say good-bye to his family then they removed the truck and he died.... but of course they said he died on the way to the hospital inside the ambulance... therefore bypassing any claims to death on company property....

His time??? I think some that may say that, are in the know as to what has been decided for your fate within your community. Just another public service provided by your local SECRET organizations...

My 2cents
Rgds

reply to post by AllTiedTogether

I know this may sound cliche', but I am truly sorry for your brothers loss! Your story does give one reason to suspect!


[edit on 15-1-2009 by Greenize]

reply to post by Greenize


My brother's buddy died....

You think this a reason to suspect, the average life expectancy after retirement for this company was one and half years. There have been suspicions that maybe someone within the company is trying to save the company some money...

Masons? They've been proven before to be involved in crimes like this....

I don't believe in coincidence any more.... too coincidental...

Rgds

"A farmer used an old horse to till his fields. One day, the horse escaped into the hills and when the farmer’s neighbors sympathized with the old man over his bad luck, the farmer replied, “Bad luck? Good luck? Who knows?” A week later, the horse returned with a herd of horses from the hills and this time the neighbors congratulated the farmer on his good luck. His reply was, “Good luck? Bad luck? Who knows?” Then, when the farmer’s son was attempting to tame one of the wild horses, he fell off its back and broke his leg. Everyone thought this very bad luck. Not the farmer, whose only reaction was, “Bad luck? Good luck? Who knows? ”Some weeks later, the army marched into the village and conscripted every able-bodied youth they found there. When they saw the farmer’s son with his broken leg, they let him off. Now was that good luck or bad luck? Who knows?"-Chinese Parable

Thought this might help sort out your thoughts.

Originally posted by AllTiedTogether

You think this a reason to suspect, the average life expectancy after retirement for this company was one and half years. There have been suspicions that maybe someone within the company is trying to save the company some money...

This has reminded me of a friends story of how her grandfather died.

It was his last day at work, he was retiring that day also.
He was sucked into, or fell into, not sure of the details - a machine that crushed him to death.

In the case of accidental death, it does make you wonder "if only ....". I don't think any of us truly knows the answer to this.