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9/11 -- Government Funding Cuts Cause NORAD delays

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posted on Apr, 9 2004 @ 10:11 PM
...and, of course, as we all know from Condi Rice and the rest of the Bush adminstration, there wasn't any real terror threat (sorry. I know that's tacky.)

The North American Aerospace Command (NORAD) claims that it received FAA notification by 8:40 am, a dismaying 27 minutes after air traffic controllers determined that hijackings were in progress. According to the New York Times, only a dozen planes, all belonging to the weekend warriors of the Air National Guard, were assigned to protect the continental United States on the morning of 9/11. And not a single one was in the air.

The Air Force waited six minutes before responding to NORAD with a "scramble order,

I take offense at characterizing them so dismissively as "weekend warriors" but the facts seem clear -- NORAD, the organization that's supposed to be preventing attacks from the sky, wasn't doing anything in the crisis.

Others have noticed this, too. There's a call by the 9/11 commission for documents from NORAD and others, and NORAD and company are not being as cooperative as they could...

posted on Apr, 9 2004 @ 10:27 PM
Interesting, but here's a question that has not been answered by any of the discussions made about "time"....

How long does a "scramble order" take to go through the chain of command (verification, etc.) and then to be given to the subsequent base/facility, which has to authenticate and verify then issue the order, where the aircraft will be scrambled from? Even if the "scramble order" is dispatched from NORAD, 3-10 minutes?

I did find this article from a National Gaurd site mentioning the "within six minutes":
Home Air Defense

However unexpected the hijackings of Sept. 11 were, two F-15s from Otis Air National Guard Base near Cape Cod, Mass., were airborne within six minutes of getting the scramble order from NORAD. Time and distance worked against the fighter jets, which were about eight minutes away when the second plane flew into the World Trade Center buildings.

Also, in all that time between determination, verification, and the "scramble order" being sent to the base/facility, once recieved and in that relative short time span of minutes, a flight plan, etc. must be issued:

Air Defense Control Facilities (ADCF) shall immediately notify the appropriate terminal air traffic control facilities as specified in a letter of agreement when a scramble is ordered and accomplish the following actions:

a. Active air defense missions shall be so identified.

b. A flight plan containing the following information shall be filed:

1. Flight call sign.

2. Number and type of aircraft/equipment suffix.

3. Departure point.

4. Proposed departure time or the word "immediate."

5. Heading.

6. Altitude.

7. Duration of flight.

8. Remarks-Frequency, type of climb, ADCF, desired transfer point.

9. Any other information required by ATC facilities.

This is all within minutes now.
Norad's take:
The Return of NORAD

When word came on Sept. 11 that airliners had been hijacked, air defense fighters scrambled at Otis ANGB, Mass., and Langley AFB, Va., and went off to intercept the airliners. However, according to a NORAD fact sheet released shortly after the attacks, the fighters simply had no chance to intercept the four hijacked airliners.

The first notification that something was wrong came in at 8:40 a.m., and at 8:46 a.m. a fighter scramble order was sent to Otis. Only seconds after the scramble order, American Airlines Flight 11 out of Boston slammed into the World Trade Center's north tower. The two Otis F-15s did not take to the air until six minutes later.

Next, at 9:02 a.m., United Airlines Flight 175 from Boston crashed into the WTC south tower. At the time of this impact the Otis-based F-15s were still 71 miles outside of New York City, meaning they were about eight minutes away.

Shortly thereafter, at 9:24 a.m., NORAD got reports of additional hijackings and immediately scrambled two F-16s of the 119th Fighter Wing, a North Dakota ANG unit that keeps a permanent detachment at Langley. The Langley fighters took off at 9:30 a.m., but once again the Air Force lacked enough time to avert catastrophe. American Flight 77 out of Dulles Airport hit the Pentagon at 9:37 a.m. The Langley fighters were still 12 minutes and 105 miles away from Washington, D.C.

This article from Slate:
The military screw-up nobody talks about

The theories and arguments surrounding this event have also been extensively discussed within ATS, in this forum and in a research project. Its a matter of what view or perspective one wishes to take on this.


[Edited on 9-4-2004 by Seekerof]

posted on Apr, 9 2004 @ 11:04 PM
Great post Seeker,

Too bad that most people refuse to believe that it takes time to get a aircraft armed, fueled, and in intercept position.

I guess they figure that the pilots sprinkle pixie dust before they take off so that they can transport themselves right where they need to be?


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