Why don't Muslims condemn violence commited by Muslims?

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posted on Apr, 9 2004 @ 11:44 PM
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mmm, personally, I think athiesm has become a religion unto it's self in today's society. But that's a topic for another thread, one I actively participate in

www.abovetopsecret.com...




posted on Apr, 10 2004 @ 12:00 AM
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Thinker, then there will always be radical Islamics.



posted on Apr, 10 2004 @ 12:09 AM
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Originally posted by Muaddib
Thinker, then there will always be radical Islamics.


There will always be radicals and extremeists of all religions.
A sad fact.

99% of the world's religions teach the same basic core values.

Honor your family, help the needy, do not steal, do not kill, etc.
if it is all the same then, who cares if you worship Budda or Jesus or Vishnu?

Just be kind and respectful!

IMO, it really is that simple!



posted on Apr, 10 2004 @ 12:33 AM
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We all, like sheep, have gone astray, each of us has turned to his own way; and the LORD has laid on him the iniquity of us all. -- Isaiah 53:6

Nice words..So true...



posted on Apr, 10 2004 @ 01:20 AM
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Except for the period from about 1800 (defeat of Egypt to Napoleon) to 1980 (Khomeini revolution in Iran), the Islamic world was generally at war with its non-Islamic rivals and borders.

There is a different scriptural basis between Judaism,Christianity versus Islam.

Even in the hebrew bible (old Testament), the wars etcetera were stated as historical *facts* or as part of god's will or plan.

It was also made quite clear that humans and kings and rulers can be sinful and fallible. Even the great King David, who is as close to a worshipped conquerer as anybody in the old Testament, was said to be prohibited from building the Temple housing the Ark because he was a soldier and had blood on his hands.

By contrast, Mohammed's actions are not just facts but explicit scriptural *proscriptions*: thou shalt's. To be like Mohammed is desirable in Islam.

The reality is that Islam and Muslims are hence less intrinsically resistant to radical and intolerant interpretations than Judaism and Christianity. They can be moderate and many are and have been. But the central ideologies *ARE* different.

Also Jewish law is not interpreted to automatically supercede or be incompatible with civil law, but Islamic law, Sharia, is explicitly seen to be the *only* law and hence is incompatible with democracy in some justified religious interpretations, i.e. man is not supposed to make law, only God.

There was a Protestant Reformation in the Christian world which tried to "get back to its roots" (though that certainly didn't stop the wars, though Catholics were pretty responsible for many atrocities too)....despite the wars a large thrust was to remove from Christianity the non scriptural crust which had built up, and that included wars and the Crusades.

If there is an Islamic Reformation, though, getting "back to the roots" would mean more war and violence and less tolerance of non-Muslims. Unfortunately, Usama bin Laden is pretty accurate scripturally. He just emphasizes some parts and not others.

There are different parts to the Quran---the early "mecca" part is generally pretty nice. Then when people didn't all flock to him and love him, Mohammed got medieval and more warlike and hence the "Medina" part and Hadith, which were more militant.

Now what about Medina? What happened there? In a nutshell, Mohammed killed and ethnically cleansed the Jews who lived there.
{Contrary to the modern-day radical propaganda which says that Jews in the Middle East are all European usurpers, there has been continuous presence for thousands of years. How many Jews are presently living in the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia? Zero.}

The wars of the Hebrews against the Akalamites and pagan Romans are over, no Akalamites and Romans are around any more.

But the Islamic scripture has an explicit account of Mohammed conquering Jews---and even after making a temporary truce to lull them into thinking there would be peace.

It is silly to imagine that this clearly doesn't influence current issues.



posted on Apr, 10 2004 @ 04:39 PM
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I started this post, not to stir things up, but as a genuine question. Looking back, I could have worded it better.

Seekerof and Illmatic have provided me with many instances of what I was looking for.

I am still puzzled. Ask any American who Louis Farrakhan is, and what he stands for, and you'll probably get a picture of an anti-semitic, antiwhite hatemonger. He is not the representative of the majority of Muslims, but he is a very loud, outspoken voice. He has the ability to rally large numbers of individuals that share his views. He is easily identifiable on TV.

Who in America is a Muslim that is as prominent, and outspoken, as Farrakhan, who is rallying large numbers of Muslims to publicly stand up and protest in the streets against terrorism? And if these demonstrations are being held, why aren't the cameras on on them? Who is the Muslim anti-terrorism equivalent of MLK Jr. ?

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posted on Apr, 10 2004 @ 04:50 PM
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Originally posted by jsobeckyWho is the Muslim anti-terrorism equivalent of MLK Jr. ?

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Probably some saintly person who's message and reason is being drowned out by the deafening roar of fanatacism.

There must be a Muslim like that out there.....



posted on Apr, 10 2004 @ 07:10 PM
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there are many muslims who condemn terrorism and many clerics in the USA who speak out loudly against it. maybe you should visit a mosque or an arab neighborhood, you might see or hear from one these people directly. The reason why you don't see them in the public eye, is because no one wants to hear it. The majority has already made their misguided opinions and no one invites these people to express their view. Go ask one of them to appear on Fox, Cnn or anywhere else, I am sure they will gladly accept. Just because you don't hear it, doesn't mean it is not spoken.



posted on Apr, 10 2004 @ 07:44 PM
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Originally posted by worldwatcher
there are many muslims who condemn terrorism and many clerics in the USA who speak out loudly against it. maybe you should visit a mosque or an arab neighborhood, you might see or hear from one these people directly.


And if you ask a islamic extremest in the US if he condemns terrorism you think he's going to say "no I can't wait to blow my self up while killing Americans" LoL. Hell I'd even be willing to say to advert attention from your self as a terrorist suspect to speak as loudly against terrorism as you can.



posted on Apr, 10 2004 @ 07:46 PM
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Look at mohammad. He was a warrior, not a peaceful man.



posted on Apr, 10 2004 @ 07:48 PM
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Nice logic again JOHNSmith....just what is the percentage of Muslim "extremist" within Islam? What is the percentage of "extremist" within Christianity?

Your point is?



seekerof



posted on Apr, 10 2004 @ 07:51 PM
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Originally posted by Slayer
Look at mohammad. He was a warrior, not a peaceful man.


Gee and I guess that Joshua, and others, was/were 'a' "man/men of peace" when the Israelites began to claim the "promised land"...the "land of milk and honey"?


seekerof



posted on Apr, 10 2004 @ 07:58 PM
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I'm not sure Seek. Hey I have an idea, let's call Hamas, Islamic jehad, Al Quada, and every other Muslim extremest terrorist group out there and ask for a head count. Oh and just out of curiosity what makes one a extremest? Maybe 50,000 people in the streets of Saudi Arabia burning the American flag yelling "death to america death to Israel?" I'm willing to bet about 1/4 of the middle east active Muslim population at least has attended one of those.



posted on Apr, 10 2004 @ 08:00 PM
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JOHNSmith, well said.
I will still contend that the original assertion of this topic and post is wrong and has been proven wrong.
There are multitudes (millions) of Islamic Muslims that condemn the use of violence, terrorism, suicide and murder, and that is according to their laws and religious texts.


seekerof



posted on Apr, 10 2004 @ 08:46 PM
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Have we all forgot about the Aga Khan ?

www.akfc.ca...




Aga Khan Foundation Canada (AKFC) is a non-profit international development agency established in Canada in 1980. As part of the world-wide Aga Khan Development Network, the Foundation supports social development projects designed to benefit the poor in Africa and Asia without regard to race, religion or political affiliation.


These are Muslims that Condem terrorists acts, and the Aga Khan himself is one of the most notable Humanitarians in the world.

Deep



posted on Apr, 10 2004 @ 08:50 PM
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Originally posted by Thinker
Islam is the root of terrorism. So as long as it exists, so will terrorism.

Anyone that says islam is peaceful religion has not read the KORAN.




Dude i was brought up islamic ans although i'm a non-practicing muslim, i can say they DO NOT condone violence..

and i suppose by your logic that islam is the root of all terrorists the IRA were islamic and not Catholic... # how the # did we get it wrong for all those years...

dumb ass



posted on Apr, 10 2004 @ 08:54 PM
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As for Christianity in the middle ages killing in the name of religion, that was because those people were corrupt and ignorant, not because their prophet told them to do it.


And they share common counterparts in the present times, Bush and the rest of his croneys, fighting " terror " in the name of God.

What we know of Jesus's teachings cannot be taken as litteral, thier is little or no proof at all to prove his very existence to begin with.

Bin Laden, and the rest of these extreme Islamic fanctions are also corrupt and ignorant.

If anything the media being the right arm of the goverment as been ejaculating the darker side of Islam.

Deep



posted on Apr, 10 2004 @ 09:05 PM
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Originally posted by Seekerof

There are multitudes (millions) of Islamic Muslims that condemn the use of violence, terrorism, suicide and murder, and that is according to their laws and religious texts.

seekerof


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I think that is in agreement. I would just like to see 100,000 of them gathered together in public, burning an effigy of bin Laden and other terrorists.

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posted on Apr, 10 2004 @ 09:14 PM
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Originally posted by jsobecky

Originally posted by Seekerof

There are multitudes (millions) of Islamic Muslims that condemn the use of violence, terrorism, suicide and murder, and that is according to their laws and religious texts.

seekerof


_________________________________________

I think that is in agreement. I would just like to see 100,000 of them gathered together in public, burning an effigy of bin Laden and other terrorists.

__________________________



Oh so how often do you do this? Never i'd guess... so does that mean you dont condemn it?



posted on Apr, 10 2004 @ 09:18 PM
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Condemn it when I see it special.
But even though I do condemn it when I see it does not cahnage that I know and believe that there are millions of Islamic Muslim that condemn it along with me. Media focuses on what sells or only the bad things, so instead of seeing those who voice opposition to such acts, you get to see those that rejoice in it.



seekerof





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