UNWRA HQ in Gaza hit by 3 Israeli white phosphorous shells

reply to post by mrmonsoon


wooooooooow. You dismiss him as a liar, but side with the Israeli guys using WHITE PHOSPHORUS? Seriously? Sometimes, when ignorance gets THIS bad, even a smartass like me is left utterly speechless. Simply incomprehensible, the sheer amount of ignorance your statements in this thread have displayed.

Originally posted by SectionEight

Originally posted by Exuberant1
reply to post by SectionEight

 

"your theory defies logic."

Please explain my theory to me.

You are clearly lying and putting words in my mouth - which is a common tactic used by pro-Israeli propagandists...

Hey hey, you are the one that put it down in writing in your posts. I'll paraphrase it for you,
Your theory is Isreal willingly attacked a UN building.

Wow, I feel I am debating at the kindergarten level here.

Possibly because you're speaking to others with the rationale and resolve of a child. The insecurity of your own argument is quite apparent. Now settle down like an adult and give the rest of us a logical argument.

Personally, I believe it was an accident, but that also shows just how careless Israel is about where it's armament is being placed. This is the third U.N. building hit so far by "accident." Reckless and indiscriminate targeting.

"Lol, look at my profile I've been here for years. "

Foolish.

reply to post by rightwingnut


When someone punches you in the nose, do you sit and wait for them to do it again? Do you punch him in the nose back, but only once and wait for them to punch again?

NO! You run them over with a Freight Train to keep them from ever doing it again.

Same goes for the UN buildings. freight train time.

There is absolutely NO EVIDENCE f any of this, in fact there is vast amounts of evidence to the contrary including the statements from the oriegn aid workers, NGO's and UN reps themselves.

These are "claime" made y Israel which they are free to back up with cock pit cam recrodings, radar recordings or ANYTHING ELSE they have provided nothing - ever. PERIOD.

In the last war against Lebanon they did exacly the same thing and provided exactly the same excuses only to be found lying, admitted tot he fact they were wrong and nothing was done about it.


Israel has beenfound well and trully guilty inumerable times - end of story.

reply to post by grimreaper797


Unbelievable, isn't it? Now the U.N. is in cahoots with Hamas by throwing cover for them according to Mrmonsoon. He is just playing his angle, and always has with Israel related subjects. A true armchair warrior of ignorance and the perpetual cycle that comes with it. You're not the only one shaking your head.. Smirking.

reply to post by DeadFlagBlues


Everyone here is an Armchair Warrior Idiot.

No body is their right now with eyes on. We are all safe behind are computer screens with no idea what is actually happening and pretending we do know.

Originally posted by arcnaver
reply to post by rightwingnut

 

When someone punches you in the nose, do you sit and wait for them to do it again? Do you punch him in the nose back, but only once and wait for them to punch again?

NO! You run them over with a Freight Train to keep them from ever doing it again.

Same goes for the UN buildings. freight train time.

And then you get posts like this -

This is genocide pure and simple - there is absolutely NO DOUBT where the worlds opinions lies on this war, there is no doubt that the court of public opinion has well and truly placed Israel squarely in the court of genocide with Rawanda, Serbia and Poland - They are deliberately driving out an entire nation with violence, oppression, imprisonment and every other horrendous act you can name - you are supporting one of the worst crimes against humanity ever committed.

reply to post by arcnaver


White Phorphorus

the random use of WP against civilian targets is banned under the CCWC and is a war crime

i don`t care if you want to feign innocence and say ` were not signed to it` ` its for smoke only`- many countries arn`t signed to the NPT and yet the USA is making a rather large fuss of nuclear tech.

UN CCWC LINK

and the specific protocol

Protocol 3 of the CCWC banning incendary weapons against civilians

you cannot go blanket bombing a city in WP (as they did in fullajah) - its a war crime


White Phosphorus cannot be extinghuished purely by water - as a chemical agent it usually requires a water/sand sprayed mix - or let it burn out.

please watch ` we were soldiers ` to see the effects of WP - they have to cut the chemical out to stop it from burning through the soldiers leg - which is the truth.

reply to post by mrmonsoon


Are we talking about the Qana bombing? Where the Israeli's killed 106 civilians and injured many more? The one where about one dozen rockets and mortar shells came from between 200-350 meters to the south of the UN compound? The one where Israel carpet bombed the area, with no regard saying that it wa "an error"?

The one that they had denied a drone reconning the area? The one where a UNIFIL solider had a video tape proving they had a drone in the area? That one? Where they knew it was a UN compound and bombed the entire area anyway?

The one where a UN official from the Netherlands was sent to investigate the incident and given the evidence he gave in his report, believes it to be unlikely that it was 'an error' like Israel claimed?

If you are talking about that incident, lets just move on, because given most the credible sources I read, Israel just claims to make a mistake, and the UN claims it wasn't a mistake. This was in 1996.

The tagline should read.
Israeli Government: Bombing the UN since 1996

www.time.com...

United Nations investigators say they have uncovered no evidence to support a claim by the Israeli military that Hamas fighters were holed up in a Gaza school, prompting a deadly attack by Israeli forces that killed 40 civilians, many of them children.

I guess you are right, Israel must have to wage war on the UN, since they are obviously Hamas supporters. The UN just wants the destruction of Israel.

All I am seeing is a great deal of instances where Israel claims one thing, and everyone else claims something else, and in every instance, innocent people got killed. Hmm.

reply to post by Harlequin


I respectfully disagree.

(b) Incendiary weapons do not include:
(i) Munitions which may have incidental incendiary effects, such as illuminants,
tracers, smoke or signalling systems;

This is not a movie.
However, you are correct. WP makes its own Oxygenation, so you cannot put it out with water and either have to dig it out, or find another method.

We disagree, thats fine. We see things differently.

--

I hold to the freight train analogy. Tit for Tat doesn not work and leads to prolonged incidents. That has been a major problem with the Mideast and the cause of much suffering. You end the conflict as quickly as possible while removing the opposition's abilities to hurt you again. Thus running them over with a freight train. If you just slap them, or say 'dont do that or ill be angry', well, they will just punch you in the nose again.

Interesting enough, Israel is not a signatory of Protocol III, covering this issue. Heck a big chunk of the Mideast didnt even bother to ratify it, but they sure can complain about it.

Did anyone see the incident in question? I mean behind the computer.

reply to post by arcnaver


When I get into a fight, I put down the guy attacking me. I don't attack him, his family, and everyone that lives on the same block that he does. When he punches me in the nose, I don't burn down every house on the block he lives on.

You want to use real life comparisons, then lets be realistic, killing innocent people not involved in the fight is unacceptable.

reply to post by grimreaper797


Agreed. Civilian casualties should be avoided as much as possible. However, that doesnt mean you cannot run the guy over with that freight train where ever you find him.

Be fair then. Admit that Hamas is hiding among civilians to cause these casualties. Admit they use civilians as human shields. Admit they do not wear a uniform. Admit they have launched weapons into civilian targets over and over again. Admit they strap bombs on their bodies and blow themselves up in a civilian marketplace. They are not innocent here.

reply to post by arcnaver


Under the Geneva Convention it is forbidden to deliberately use incendiary weapons on civilian targets.

Article 1 of Protocol III of the Convention on Certain Conventional Weapons defines an incendiary weapon as 'any weapon or munition which is primarily designed to set fire to objects or to cause burn injury to persons through the action of flame,heat or combination thereof,produced by a chemical reaction of a substance delivered on the target'.

Though some UN members may not have signed all treaties,they are still bound by the Geneva Convention.

Related links.
www.icrc.org...
www.unog.ch...(httpPages)/3CE7CFC0AA4A7548C12571C00039CB0C?OpenDocument


[edit on 15-1-2009 by DantesLost]

reply to post by DantesLost


See, this is where the trickery of WP comes in - it isn't classified as a incendiary weapon because that property is allegedly secondary to it's smoke. Consider it as the legal loophole of questionable chemical weapons...

[edit on 15-1-2009 by Goathief]

reply to post by arcnaver


Oh I am being fair, I am all for getting at the necks of people who kill innocent people. But lets face it, Israel is killing more innocent people than anyone else right now. So in that case, they are my main concern. When they stop killing so many innocent people, Ill start to condemn hamas and nobody else. Right now, Israel is playing into the terrorists hands. Kill tons of innocent people.

For instance, the times article I posted. 40 innocent people killed, mostly children, to kill two terrorist who may or may not have fled the scene before the bombs even hit the school.

With Israel doing things like that, who needs terrorists to kill innocent people?

Again, your freight train ideal is the perfect way to continue this war forever/start a genocide.

You have an issue with 5 people in a town of 1000, so you just kill everyone in the town? Live by the sword, die by the sword. Same goes for Israel.

reply to post by arcnaver


Yes the people who like using WP are the ones not signed to it;

also heres something else for you:

Peter Kaiser of the Organisation for the Prohibition of Chemical Weapons which oversee`s the implementation of the CWC (Chemical Weapons Convention 1997) said to clarify the use of WP;

No it's not forbidden by the CWC if it is used within the context of a military application which does not require or does not intend to use the toxic properties of white phosphorus. White phosphorus is normally used to produce smoke, to camouflage movement.
If that is the purpose for which the white phosphorus is used, then that is considered under the convention legitimate use.
If on the other hand the toxic properties of white phosphorus are specifically intended to be used as a weapon, that of course is prohibited, because the way the convention is structured or the way it is in fact applied, any chemicals used against humans or animals that cause harm or death through the toxic properties of the chemical are considered chemical weapons

The USA signed the CWC

treaties.un.org...

[edit on 15/1/09 by Harlequin]

Its really tiring to hear the repeated regurgitation of "Hamas is hiding among civilians". Gaza is about the size of Detroit with 10 times the amount of people. I know.. maybe Israel can stop bombing the hell out of everything, and all the Hamas can go to one little area and make a little base and give the IDF their coordinates. That way its all fair and square yeah?

Modern artillery today is extremely accurate. Almost pin point accurate. For Israel to say "oops we made a mistake", not once, but three times now. Come on.

Second, they are not using WP for smoke screens for their helicopters. That is just the biggest load of BS I have heard so far. First it was "oh we are using it for illumination" but that was a lie because they shoot it all day long. Now its "oh we're using it as a smoke screen for our choppers". You mean the helo's flying at 1000+ feet firing radar guided munitions at buildings? Hmm... I didn't know the Hamas, who lob basically Estee's quality rockets into Israel, had the ability to bring down AH-1W Super Cobras. To the point where IDF needs to fire off chemical incendiary rounds into a civilian population.

But... hell..... the Hamas are behind everything. Israel could stick a gun to a 5-year old childs head and pull the trigger. But someone on this board would stand up and shout "HAMAS MADE THEM DO IT". Give me a break.

Israel will get whats coming to it. That you can bet on.

Originally posted by mrmonsoon

A senior Israeli military officer said Israeli troops shelled after coming under fire from Palestinian militants inside the compound

Yahoonews

So, just like when fighting the Hezbollah terrorists, Hamas walks right up to the UN compound and starts firing weapon s @Israel troops

The UN is then aghast that Israeli's dare fire back.

If the UN allows terrorists to hide behind them and fire weapons into at Israeli soldiers, from their post, they deserve what they get.

When the UN allows this, they are acting like allies of the terrerists.

Nope all wrong.
There's no excuse for what Israel is doing. I'm sick of hearing about this. It's pathetic that Israel has fallen so low as to bomb a UN hq and a Hospital. Come on...that is inhumane and you know it. Someone should do something to stop them. And no im not saying they should team up with Hamas either