Atheists want God stricken from inaugural oath, page 4

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reply posted on 15-1-2009 @ 10:15 AM by ImaNutter

reply to post by Exuberant1

Do you realize what thread you are in? Do you realize this entire thread is about Atheists wanting the word GOD out of the Oath they use during inauguration?

I understand you are a believer in the Lord, so you will deny any factual evidence I give you. But I dare you to read my post again and respond to a) what is in the United States Constitution, not my opinions or bullcrap I theorized on my own but WHAT IS WRITTEN IN THE CONSTITUTION OF THE UNITED STATES also if you don't mind, please comment also on James Madison take on what the First Amendment means.

I was called out, I provided factual information that you yourselves can verify, I proved that God is not in the Oath, I proved our founding fathers did not want government to "compel" (his words not mine) anyone to worship God.

I can do nothing more to make my point. It's already been made and you've ignored it completely...what's a guy to do? Would you like a copy of the United States Constitution sent to your home for further inspection?

Where'd you go Huck Finn??? You feel okay snipping at me, "calling me" on that one, but when I respond...where you at? Did I post something you didn't like... perhaps the UNITED STATES CONSTITUTION or James Madison interpretation of the First Amendment.

reply posted on 15-1-2009 @ 10:21 AM by huckfinn

reply to post by ImaNutter

So you are saying that Barack Obama desiring God's help to do HIS job, compels YOU to worship God?

I don't get it.

reply posted on 15-1-2009 @ 10:25 AM by ImaNutter

Originally posted by Exuberant1
"Atheists want God stricken from inaugural oath"

Atheists?

More like Communists or Communitarians or Socialists or W/E they call their Godless Existentialist Selves nowadays...

"Why is it necessary? "

For the same reason it is still used in Courts - To affirm The Common Law

You want a president that acknowledges The Common Law don't you?

To affirm the Common Law does not require one be religious or have belief in a singular God - However all the documents that Contain the Common Law also contain a reference to God:

"For we know that the common law is that system of law which was introduced by the Saxons on their settlement of England, and altered from time to time by proper legislative authority from that time to the date of the Magna Charta, which terminates the period of the common law.... This settlement took place about the middle of the fifth century. But Christianity was not introduced till the seventh century; the conversion of the first Christian king of the Heptarchy having taken place about the year 598, and that of the last about 686. Here then, was a space of two hundred years, during which the common law was in existence, and Christianity no part of it.... That system of religion could not be a part of the common law, because they were not yet Christians."
--Thomas Jefferson, letter to Dr. Thomas Cooper, February 10, 1814

[edit on 15-1-2009 by Exuberant1]

Because you asked me to, I went back and read your post. I laughed.

Do you realize that the word God was not used once in your entire quote by TJ? You say this: "However all the documents that Contain the Common Law also contain a reference to God" .. AND THEN the quote you use directly after it makes no mention of the word God hahahahaha

As a matter of fact, I went for a quick search on a concrete meaning of Common Law. The fact is this exuberant, you can pretend to think common law refers to your deity in any way you want, but once again, find one mention of the word God in this entire description of Common Law (by your theories alone you say every document mentioning Common Law contains reference to God... where is it?) I know you wont read it, but I'll post it anyway... www.svpvril.com...

reply posted on 15-1-2009 @ 10:32 AM by ImaNutter

Originally posted by huckfinn
reply to post by ImaNutter

So you are saying that Barack Obama desiring God's help to do HIS job, compels YOU to worship God?

I don't get it.

YES. We continuously call the President of The United States the "Most Powerful Man in the Free World" so it's easy to make the stretch he is influential. What he does influences millions if not billions of people. Also... I would really like for you to respond to:

First... since I'm now a Constitutional Authority, I'll redirect you to Article 2 Section 1 of the United States Constitution...

www.usconstitution.net...
Quoted word for word, the oath as written in the United States Constitution...

"I do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will faithfully execute the Office of President of the United States, and will to the best of my Ability, preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the United States."

You called me on it.... I put time and effort into making my case and you ignore it. I realize I could smack you in the face with truth and fact and you would still be blind so this is my last post regarding this thread.

What the United States Constitution SAYS is enough for me! But like I said before I got drug into this mess (by you Huck Finn), I realize asking for anything promised to us in the United States Constitution is out the window these days...

reply posted on 15-1-2009 @ 10:38 AM by Exuberant1

reply to post by ImaNutter

"I understand you are a believer in the Lord,"

No, I'm agnostic. Google it.

Why do you say false things about me?

You are the one who believes in God, not me.

Stop using ATS to try and make converts.

[edit on 15-1-2009 by Exuberant1]

reply posted on 15-1-2009 @ 10:43 AM by ImaNutter

Sir, I apologize that I made any inference in your belief in God. I sincerely do. I had no intentions of distracting you off topic. Could you please get back on topic now that I have apologized? How about reading what I gave to you on the common law? Hm? Are you allergic to facts?

Once again I referred you to the substance of my point, with sources and factual information and you ignored it once again to talk personal stuff.

Why not talk about the United States Constitution?

I aim to convert no one to anything. Please don't say false things about me.

[edit on 15-1-2009 by ImaNutter]

reply posted on 15-1-2009 @ 10:47 AM by Exuberant1

reply to post by ImaNutter

"How about reading what I gave to you on the common law? Hm? Are you allergic to facts?"

Courtesy is Mandatory.

I read what you posted and I disagree with the statements you made. Clearly you are just trolling so I won't bother to respond with my view as to how wrong you are.

reply posted on 15-1-2009 @ 10:53 AM by ImaNutter

reply to post by Exuberant1

United States Constitution
Article 2, Section 1
Before he enter on the Execution of his Office, he shall take the following Oath or Affirmation:

"I do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will faithfully execute the Office of President of the United States, and will to the best of my Ability, preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the United States."

reply posted on 15-1-2009 @ 10:54 AM by dbates

Originally posted by Exuberant1
"ever hear of the separation of church and state as declared in the Consitution?"

Please cite the text from the article or ammendment in the Constitution that says this. You'll find it's not in there.

The phrase "So help me God", while not listed in Article II, Section 1 (Presidential oath of office) was uttered by George Washington at the first swearing-In ceremony. Most hold that he even kissed the Bible after uttering those words. His speech to Congress after the ceremony was even better.

it would be peculiarly improper to omit in this first official Act, my fervent supplications to that Almighty Being who rules over the Universe, .....

In tendering this homage to the Great Author of every public and private good....

No People can be bound to acknowledge and adore the invisible hand, which conducts the Affairs of men more than the People of the United States.

So you see, his first official act as President was to honor the "Almighty Being". Note that George Washington said that this was his act. He did not command that everyone bow down and pray. That would have been in violation of the First. Incorporating references to deity in official functions is not prohibited however.

Since we see that this has been so since the very first President, how are Christians wrong when they are trying to change nothing? It is the athiests who are trying to change how this country behaves.

reply posted on 15-1-2009 @ 10:57 AM by Exuberant1

reply to post by dbates

Originally posted by Exuberant1
reply to post by paisley101

"ever hear of the separation of church and state as declared in the Consitution?"

We've already covered that.

Thanks for pointing it out again.

And it is 'Constitution' - If you can't even spell it, then I know how much you respect it...

Could you please provide more context with that quote.

Then the members can see that I was actually quoting another member (paisely101)...

So really, you are replying to paisely101 and not myself.

[edit on 15-1-2009 by Exuberant1]

reply posted on 15-1-2009 @ 11:02 AM by ImaNutter

reply to post by dbates

Do you have any evidence that Washington did in fact use the word God in the first inauguration? Nothing I have found is concrete, as the consensus seems to be it can not be proven. He could kiss the Bible, that's fine. He was probably a pretty happy dude. But it's the oath he said that matters. And I've found nothing anywhere that proves he used the word God in the Oath.

Also, what you posted as his speech to congress is personal belief and a personal speech he made to congress. We are talking about the United States Constitution and what is in it.

There is no description in the United States Constitution that dictates how a speech should go.

[edit on 15-1-2009 by ImaNutter]

[edit on 15-1-2009 by ImaNutter]

reply posted on 15-1-2009 @ 11:12 AM by Venit

Speaking as an Atheist, there's supposed to be a separation of church and state. Only from a secular governing body can there be an ensuring of equality and no nasty siphoning off of federal funds to help someone's faith based projects.. as a certain president did recently.

However, if the president himself believes in whatever, then why not. I mean, it's an old ceremony, so changing it would just put more negative PR on us atheists, and we have enough of that already thank you very much.

reply posted on 15-1-2009 @ 11:14 AM by dbates

reply to post by Exuberant1

Since you didn't use bb code for the quote box, I assumed the text was yours. My apologies.

reply posted on 15-1-2009 @ 11:17 AM by dbates

Originally posted by ImaNutter
There is no description in the United States Constitution that dictates how a speech should go.

Look at Article II, Section 1

Before he enter on the execution of his office, he shall take the following oath or affirmation:--"I do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will faithfully execute the office of President of the United States, and will to the best of my ability, preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the United States."

reply posted on 15-1-2009 @ 11:28 AM by huckfinn

So if the Oath doesn't contain it and the Constitution doesn't require it, the addition of so help me God is added at the discretion of the person being inaugurated?

Maybe Obama want's God's help. Being President will difficult and the atheists, gays and Muslims are already digging into the guy and he hasn't even started his job yet.

I'd sure want some supernatural help, mythological or not, if I had to deal with you people.

reply posted on 15-1-2009 @ 11:31 AM by AmericanDaughter

O well.
It ain't gonna happen ...
It better not ...

reply posted on 15-1-2009 @ 11:33 AM by ImaNutter

reply to post by dbates

I've had to quote that a number of times, so I'm well aware of what it says. But would you mind explaining to me where Article 2 Section 1 it defines the parameters of a speech?