Inventors anonimus

If some inventors decided to create some new device or a weapon and not register it with the official bodies, that would be illegal, right? Are there some scientists out there who decided that they don't want their work to be public and are now working on some secret device that could, say, knock out all the satellites around the globe? Or some other useful device like that

...I have just learnd how to use a multimeter, and this comes as a natural next step in my effort...

[edit on 14-1-2009 by greshnik]

Let me get this straight.

You just learned to use a multimeter, and your natural next step is building something to take out all satellites around the globe (or something like that)?

Make sure to keep us updated on your effort!!

Originally posted by ATruGod
Let me get this straight.

You just learned to use a multimeter, and your natural next step is building something to take out all satellites around the globe (or something like that)?

Make sure to keep us updated on your effort!!

No...my "natural next step" is to ask questions like this - do you think that there are scientists in the world who secretly work on projects they do not intend to share with public? I am not talking about those paid by government agencies, but independent ones, not registered anywhere. Is that possible?

The question is for those who know more than I do. The multimeter joke was just a self irony...



[edit on 14-1-2009 by greshnik]

reply to post by greshnik


yes, i find it very possible. Im one of those guys, i dont really trust any of my findings with anyone, but i have made some pretty astonding discoveries and inventions before. Like one invention i made way back in the 8th grade. I made a device with three bottom plates and two top plates that spun at well over 200rpm and in thereoy it had used the earths magnetic currents as a constant, then made its own oppisite magnetic force to conteract our own, then repelled itself off the ground quite effortlessley. But i never make my claims know, lord knows what could happen. I am making no attempts of validaty, im just using an example that some people can make great inventions or discoveries and choose to keep them secret. I know my spellings horrible, thanks for bearing with me though.

reply to post by greshnik

The purpose of a patent is to protect the inventor's rights, to keep others from selling his invention. There is no requirement that inventions be patented or otherwise "registered".

[edit on 1/14/2009 by Phage]

Isn't there something about a threat to national security? I think some people who have tried to get certain patents and sell their ideas have had this problem. I recall a lawyer telling me about a client and or friend of his with a laser gun that had it taken away along with the plans and was threatened by the government. I don't know if he had anymore of these though. Some things you just can't talk about or try to make money the honest way?

Originally posted by Phage
reply to post by greshnik

 

The purpose of a patent is to protect the inventor's rights, to keep others from selling his invention. There is no requirement that inventions be patented or otherwise "registered".

[edit on 1/14/2009 by Phage]

Hmmm...if you say so. I say that the purpose is also that all the scientific activity is visible. And controllable. Also, I think that you are legally required to register any laboratory or testing site.

Originally posted by greshnik
If some inventors decided to create some new device or a weapon and not register it with the official bodies, that would be illegal, right? Are there some scientists out there who decided that they don't want their work to be public and are now working on some secret device that could, say, knock out all the satellites around the globe? Or some other useful device like that

...I have just learnd how to use a multimeter, and this comes as a natural next step in my effort...

[edit on 14-1-2009 by greshnik]

Oh dear...please let us know when you learn how to use a soldering iron!


No it is not illegal to keep one's invention to themselves. Why would it be illegal? I have made many devices that I keep for myself for my own uses, and a few of them definately does not belong in the public arena, and could be used in a bad way. If I were to let loose those particular devices without registering them and getting appropriate patents and licensing for their sale and use in the public domain, someone could use one of them and cause irreputable damage and I would end up being held liable for it. No thanks!!

Some inventions are just better left out of the public realm, and out of government's knowledge base too.


Cheers!!!!

reply to post by RFBurns


I have bought a soldering iron, attempted to create "tv be gone" and - failed. I must have overheated a component... But, I will try again

RFBurns, thanks for your reply. I did not expect that real guru's like yourself would even reply to a mortal like me )

I guess what I am trying to ask is if there could be some guys with money, like Doctor Evil, trying to create a device or a weapon that would be capable of causing significant harm to society. How hard would it be to hide activity like that...I think it would be really, really hard to have such a project if it is not organised by government secret agencies.

[edit on 14-1-2009 by greshnik]

Simplified somewhat (so as not to take up 100 pages of boring legalistic details), it works like this:

Anyone can invent anything. There is no law and no regulatory agency covering inventors. All one must do to claim an invention as their own is to apply with the US Patent Office for a patent. This process does not by law require an attorney, but in order to efficiently and practically deal with the bureaucracy, one is ill-advised to not hire a patent attorney. The process is exhaustive and does require the payment of fees, although it is my understanding these are not tremendously expensive in themselves. The services of an attorney, on the other hand, are quite expensive. (Someone who has a breakdown of exact fees feel free to correct me on this, as I am going by hearsay, albeit from many different sources.)

No prototype or other physical medium is required to apply for a patent. All that is needed is for one to be able to explain in technical language to their attorney exactly how the invention works. A Patent Draftsman will draw up plans which form the basis of the patent application, included in the attorney's price. Home-drawn plans are simply not acceptable to the Patent Office.

There is one exception to this rule: if an application describes a device which could be construed to be 'over-unity', 'perpetual motion', etc., the Patent Office does require a working demonstration device or the application will be refused. This is a fairly recent decision by the Patent Office in response to the deluge of patents for such devices that simply did not work.

A patent grants exclusive rights to the device/process/whatever being patented to the inventor for a specific period. An extension is possible, however the fee for this extension is appreciable. During the lifetime of the patent, the invention belongs exclusively to the inventor and may be used solely by them or sold to companies to be produced for market. Only a patent gives this legal protection! There are many myths around about how to 'protect' your device without the expense of a patent, and all of them are wrong.

Sealing a drawing of your device in an envelope and mailing it to yourself only establishes that you drew it before the date of the postmark. The owner is not the person who thought of it first, but the person who first applied for a patent. Yes, people have 'saved' their inventions that way in the past, but only when there was some legal question of plagiarism (as in the case of a broken non-disclosure contract). Similarly, you can have a million witnesses to the fact that you showed the device to the company who patented it, but as long as there is no contract between you and that company stating clerly that you are the inventor and they will not pursue patent rights, it doesn't matter. Even if you have that contract, you have no claim to the patent itself, but may have a claim to proper reimbursement (as defined by a judge) for your idea.

If you publish information about your invention anywhere that can be accessed by the public, without patent protection at that time, the invention can no longer be patented. It becomes what is known as 'public domain' and may be used by anyone at any time without any recourse by the inventor. In other words, talk about it before you apply for the patent, and you just gave it away.

'Patent Pending' is a misunderstood phrase. It does not mean that there is a patent; it means that the inventor has applied with the US Patent Office for a patent and therefore will be protected should that patent be awarded. If that happens, any protection begins from the date of application and the inventor may sue anyone using their patent without permission for damages.

There is absolutely no registration or regulation of research. Research takes place in basements, sheds, shops, etc. all over this country every day, not just in large facilities. If memory is correct, Bull Gates wrote the first Windows OS in his basement after IBM (his employer at the time) told him they weren't interested in it. (Again, if this is an urban myth, someone tell me.)

The Federal Government may, at its sole discretion, declare anything as a 'threat to national security'. That includes inventions, and they do have access to Patent Office records (actually, so does everyone; they are public records). So yeah, if you build and patent a device that can knock satellites from the sky, get ready for a visit from nice men in black suits and dark sunglasses.

Good luck with that multimeter, and as RFBurns said, be careful when you get to the soldering iron. those things get hot.

TheRedneck

As long as it remains a backyard experiment and remains in the backyard there would be no problem, it is when you step on the money that you get into more than you bargained for.

I got a patent along with a friend back in the early 90's. We didn't use an attorney, we did all the paperwork ourselves. If you do this, expect to be turned down, but keep trying. They will not necessarily understand what your invention is. We had two turn downs and my friend finally called the patent examiner and explained the invention and cleared everything up and we got the patent.

I think we had about $1000 in the patent by doing it ourselves, but if we had used a lawyer, it would have cost us about $10,000 back then, I don't know what it would be now. After you get the patent, you still have to pay a maintenance fee that increases ever time you have to pay.

Patents are expensive just to say you own an idea. You need to have an invention that is marketable to make it worth your while to get a patent. The problem with my invention was that I had to go up against big names with big money that claimed that "if the problem can be solved, our engineers would have already solved it". Well, it worked because we tested it and proved that it would. They just would not accept our claims.