Ejected from Cafe for being Israeli, page 1

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ATS Members have flagged this thread 4 times

Topic started on 14-1-2009 @ 03:00 PM by alien

A story in todays online News website here in New Zealand:

'Oh my god, the Gaza Strip has come to Invercargill'

Intro:

Two women were shocked after being kicked out of an Invercargill cafe yesterday because they come from Israel.

Sisters Natalie Bennie and Tamara Shefa were upset after being booted out of the Mevlana Cafe in Esk St by owner Mustafa Tekinkaya.

"He heard us speaking Hebrew and he asked us where we were from. I said Israel and he said `get out, I am not serving you'. It was shocking."
(full article in link above)

While I understand and can appreciate that business owners do have some rights in regards to refusal of service...I personally find this a bit on the nose...particularily as under our Human Rights legislation its not allowable to discriminate or refuse service etc due to ethnicity.

So I'm sure our Human Rights Commission may have a bit more to say about it.

Sure - I don't have family who may be affected by the Gaza conflict - as the Cafe owner may well do - but I think its a shame that this conflict has perhaps created such an air whereby people turn on others simply because of where they come from.

A few of my work colleagues were discussing it this morning - some feel the cafe owner should be commended for making a stand...others, such as myself, feel that the stand made does little more than perpetuate conflict.

Would be interested to hear/read the thoughts/opinions of other ATS Members...

Cheers.

reply posted on 14-1-2009 @ 03:08 PM by intrepid

He's ill informed and wrong. There's a difference Israelis and their gov't. Here's but one example of what the Israeli people are doing. Machsom Watch:

MachsomWatch, in existence since 2001, is an organisation of peace activist Israeli women against the Israeli Occupation of the territories and the systematic repression of the Palestinian nation. We call for Palestinian freedom of movement within their own territory and for an end to the Occupation that destroys Palestinian society and inflicts grievous harm on Israeli society.

www.machsomwatch.org...

reply posted on 14-1-2009 @ 03:57 PM by Skittle

Good one, atleast someone has balls to stand against injustice in their own small way.

reply posted on 14-1-2009 @ 04:02 PM by Harassment101

It's wrong to pick on individuals for the actions of their government. Just the same way it's wrong to hate Americans for the actions of the American government.

What if these women are against what is being done in Gaza? There are some Isreal citizens who do not approve of what is happenig.

If my country does something wrong, or unjust, I don't want to be hated for it, or discriminated for it, anymore than these women should be.

I feel sympathy for the owner if he does have family that is being attacked, killed, and having weapons tested on them, but these women didn't do anything, but try to have lunch.

[edit on 14-1-2009 by Harassment101]

reply posted on 14-1-2009 @ 04:04 PM by intrepid

Originally posted by Skittle
Good one, atleast someone has balls to stand against injustice in their own small way.

And it's this type of stance that perpetuates the insanity. What did these women do to deserve this other than being born Israeli?

reply posted on 14-1-2009 @ 04:05 PM by ANOK

Originally posted by Skittle
Good one, atleast someone has balls to stand against injustice in their own small way.

The injustice is people from a country having to suffer because of the actions of their government and the bigotry of others.

You could say they're to blame because they voted the gov in, but if you really think that's how it works you need to look a little harder into the reality.

reply posted on 14-1-2009 @ 04:07 PM by FredT

Originally posted by Skittle
Good one, atleast someone has balls to stand against injustice in their own small way.

People issue is with the actions of the Isreali government NOT the people of Israel.

I have made no bones about the wrongs I feel have been committed in this latest outrage, but, much like applying blame to an citizen of the US for say GITMO, or other acts of the Bush Administration its wrong.

reply posted on 14-1-2009 @ 04:07 PM by greeneyedleo

Originally posted by Skittle
Good one, atleast someone has balls to stand against injustice in their own small way.

That is ridiculous. Those 2 women and tons of others (along with many many Israeli citizens) have NOTHING to do with this conflict!

That's like me calling ALL Muslims terrorists. We know for fact they are not. And if I made that statement here or anywhere, I would be bashed and trashed.

reply posted on 14-1-2009 @ 04:13 PM by JanusFIN

Happen to me in Pattaya, Thailand about year ago...

We were out in bars and discos, we join with couple of young Israelis in bar, about 20 yrs old, one girl and one boy. Together about 7 people we went to famous Marine Discotek and just after we have stepped in, two Israelis was surrounded and they had about 10 sek to leave that Arabian owned disco, with quards - just because they look Jews - they were sniped out right away from place... For us others it was ok to stay, no-one act any hostile to us.

[edit on 14-1-2009 by JanusFIN]

reply posted on 14-1-2009 @ 04:18 PM by 38181

In Japan they do that all the time to Americans especially service men and women, they cross their arms and so " NO Amercian!" in front of there bars or cafe.......seen it many times.

reply posted on 14-1-2009 @ 04:21 PM by soldiermom

reply to post by Skittle

Being judgmental and small-minded does not equal balls, as you so eloquently put it. These two character flaws (among others) are what lead to so many conflicts in the first place.

There are times when guilt by association is a necessary assumption to make. In this instance, he shouldn't have assumed. It just raises tensions even higher.

reply posted on 14-1-2009 @ 04:22 PM by JanusFIN

reply to post by 38181

Yeah... I can guarantee thats same situation in Pattaya when US Navy comes to visit --- MP has already sorted those places where US soldiers are welcome, and before they leave, MPs check that all bills are paid. (Huge problems in paying bills over the years, dont know why, some attitude problem maybe?)

reply posted on 14-1-2009 @ 04:22 PM by alien

reply to post by Skittle

In a way I do agree with some sentiment there.

I personally think its a good thing for people to have the courage of their convictions to 'make a stand', 'send a message' in regards to injustice.

Heck - I come from a lengthy history of involvement with the Maori Land Protest movement in my country...and have certainly spent my fair share of time at the front of protest lines, getting arrested/detained, yelling and screaming and acting for what I believe in...

...I guess what I learnt from my decade or so of active protest and 'pushing the envelope' with the Govt/Police/Authority/Country was that one had to become smarter - not louder...calmer not more agressive.
I learnt you couldn't force people towards change...you had to be the change yourself.

You more readily encourage someone towards change not by using one finger (pointing/blaming) but by using five (offering a hand of friendship, speaking person to person so you may know them and they may know you as a person first and foremost)

So while I think "Hey, its good to stand up for what you believe, to stand up against injustice"...reading about this Cafe owners stand all I think is "one injustice creates another, creates another, creates another".

It can be a bit of a vicious self-feeding cycle.

Old adage: Its not what you say - but how you say it. Not what you do - but how you do it.

[edit on 14-1-2009 by alien]

reply posted on 14-1-2009 @ 04:36 PM by alien

...as others have pointed out, discrimination happens.

It happens.

Be you Israeli or American or Jewish or *insert race/gender/religion/age/whatever here*

Certainly experienced it numerous times myself...being a brown *minority* I grew up very accustomed to being snobbed by shopkeepers, followed around and/or stopped and searched by store security, questioned/harrased/assaulted by police, passed by taxi-drivers, refused rental accomodation by landlords etc etc. Still encounter that in some forms today...

Just find it saddening that we see the damage, trauma, pain such conflicts like Gaza cause...we see it live and loud every evening on the News, read it in our newspapers, hear it on the street or in the workplace lunchroom...

...and yet in some ways many still perpetuate and perpetrate the same essential thing each and every day in their own streets, their own communities through their actions such as this Cafe owner...

reply posted on 14-1-2009 @ 04:38 PM by detachedindividual

reply to post by alien

While I understand both sides of this particular spat, they should expect that there will be widespread anger toward Israel right now. I'm not suggesting that this excuses the actions of the store owner, but they should have an adult attitude about this and understand this little difference.

I don't agree that he should have refused them service, he didn't know if they support their country or not, and even if they did, as long as they weren't being disrespectful or causing any problems he should have no right to refuse service.

If I was them, (and if they don't support what Israel is doing), I would go back, and tell him that I understood his reasons. Show some compassion and support. Reinforce the idea that not all Israelis are completely insane.

He has made a stand, in an incorrect manner, but in the only way he really can. He is obviously passionate about the lives being lost at the hands of Israel, and he wants to feel that he is doing something.

Surely they should just be adults and continue with their lives, allow him this little victory without enforcing the belief that all Israelis support the war and are as vindictive and nasty as their government.

reply posted on 14-1-2009 @ 04:42 PM by kid_of_3NKi

Originally posted by Harassment101
It's wrong to pick on individuals for the actions of their government. Just the same way it's wrong to hate Americans for the actions of the American government.

What if these women are against what is being done in Gaza? There are some Isreal citizens who do not approve of what is happenig.

If my country does something wrong, or unjust, I don't want to be hated for it, or discriminated for it, anymore than these women should be.

I feel sympathy for the owner if he does have family that is being attacked, killed, and having weapons tested on them, but these women didn't do anything, but try to have lunch.

[edit on 14-1-2009 by Harassment101]

Dude, if these women were against their gov's actions in Gaza, why are they having a nice time sitting in cafes instead of protesting in front of their country's embasies while 100s of innocent Gazans are being killed?
There are many Israelis who support their gov's actions (maybe the majority even), and most of those who don't, do not have the guts to stand up against it.
You realy can't blame Mustafa (isnt't that an arab name even?!) for throwing out those women.. I would have done the same without hesitating, and I'm not a Palestinian / Arab.

The general point is:
You have to show people the consequences for their (or their goverments!) crimes and wrongdoing!
Otherwise they won't learn their lesson and things might not change or will get worst.
And if you are against criminal actions of your gov, do whatever you think is necessary and what you are able to do, to stop your gov asap!
Therefore there's no excuse for citizens who stay passive or even support their criminal gov, imo.

Ko3

reply posted on 14-1-2009 @ 04:45 PM by deccal

One of the biggest mistakes is to reflect the brutality of war machines to individual people. Actually this is what they really want to do. Labeling all Israelis as racist war freaks, labeling all muslims as hate-filled fanatics etc..We should never forget that each individual life is a distinct form other than bloodsucker governement and they never represent them unless they are officialy fighting for them. The best answer to all war machines of every governement is coming together of all people from any religion, ethnicity and culture and raise a collective voice against this violent insanity. This is our only chance and hope for future.

reply posted on 14-1-2009 @ 04:49 PM by Founding

Originally posted by Skittle
Good one, atleast someone has balls to stand against injustice in their own small way.

Hey you know what are next stand against injustice should be? We should break and burn all the stores owned by Jews! Oh wait.... I forgot the Nazis already did that it was called Kristalnaught. Grow up ignorance is not welcome anywhere

reply posted on 14-1-2009 @ 04:55 PM by intrepid

Originally posted by kid_of_3NKi
Dude, if these women were against their gov's actions in Gaza, why are they having a nice time sitting in cafes instead of protesting in front of their country's embasies while 100s of innocent Gazans are being killed?

Um, because they wanted something to eat? You do know that food is essential?

There are many Israelis who support their gov's actions (maybe the majority even), and most of those who don't, do not have the guts to stand up against it.

I wouldn't mind some stats on that.

You realy can't blame Mustafa (isnt't that an arab name even?!) for throwing out those women.. I would have done the same without hesitating, and I'm not a Palestinian / Arab.

Now there's a news bulliten.

reply posted on 14-1-2009 @ 05:04 PM by kid_of_3NKi

reply to post by intrepid

Know what?

If I were a jew during these days i would be so deeply ashamed of my gov's killing actions that i wouldn't dare to talk jewish in public so ppl can recognise me as an Israeli.. and imo that would be an expected behavour!

Ko3

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