Israeli army masses along Lebanon border

Israel was attacked the same day it became an independent state. In 1967 and 1973 massive armies from a host of neighbouring Arab countries came down with tanks with the expressed intent of annihilating them.

Israel has been in a defensive mode since day 1. Their foerign policy emanates from their wish to just be left alone.

But every other possible spin is put on this.


MF

reply to post by mmiichael


Stop acting like Israel came into existence when it became recognized as a state. Tension and such had been rising since the 20's when Jewish people started to immigrate there in larger and larger amounts. There were riots in Palestine to get the Jewish people out before Israel even came into existence. The Jewish people would buy up land and would want no part of the Palestinian people that they lived near. Once these communities got larger and more numerous, the Palestinian people really started to take issue and get angry.

The idea this is just self defense and nothing more is a real load, and the mere fact you are playing that card shows how little research you have done on middle eastern affairs.

The day Israel came into existence is the day they were the designated regional targets.

And from that day until this very hour, they are still designated regional targets.

Whether they should have been allowed was decided long ago.

Get over it.

reply to post by grimreaper797


Am I getting this right GrimReaper797...

The Israelis don't have the right to exist?

reply to post by golemina


No you aren't, allow me to aid your comprehension issues.

Israel isn't simply defending itself, it is slowly expanding itself. They don't need to fire rockets to take over, just buy everything up, which is what they did. It would be the equivalent of the USA going into Iraq and just starts buying up all the land for dirt cheap since it was all in ruins after we came in and bombed it to hell.

Simple fact, Israel came into existence by many Jewish people flooding into Palestine between the 1920's and 1950's via legal and illegal immigration, and buying/settling on land. The more they did this, the more angry the Palestinian people became, because many of the illegal immigrates were simply settling on the land. Like a peaceful invasion of sorts.

It is the kind of thing that goes unnoticed till there are hundreds of thousands of people there and they all want you to stay off and away from their communities.

reply to post by grimreaper797


Slowly expanding itself?

Hmm....

History would seem to disagree with you GrimReaper797.

I couldn't help but notice... You didn't really answer my question.

Do Israelis have the right to exist?

reply to post by golemina


I didn't answer because neither post had anything to do with either post I wrote. This has nothing to do with Israel's right to exist. I have no authority to say in whether a country has a right to exist or not. I am not some moral authority on the matter.

What I can say, by looking at history, is that Israel's war in the middle east is not just a defensive one.

I don't have to answer your question, because it has no bearing on the topic I AM talking about. You probably asked this question, because it derails the argument FROM MY point, which is historically and logically accurate, to a moral slugfest, which nobody can win at, because trying to fight about whether or not a country has the right to exist comes down to morality and personal opinion.

It was a good try to derail the argument into a slugfest about right and wrong, which is a sure fire stale mate, so that you wouldn't have to address MY POINT, that Israel is not fighting an overly simplified "defensive" war.

reply to post by golemina


And how would you know history disagrees with me? Its pretty obvious you have never had any sort of interaction with middle eastern history.

Originally posted by golemina
reply to post by grimreaper797

 

Slowly expanding itself?

Hmm....

History would seem to disagree with you GrimReaper797.

Um, wrong:

A US-led investigation into the causes of the Middle East conflict calls for Israel to halt the illegal expansion of Jewish settlements in the West Bank and Gaza.

The big increase in settlements over the last decade, often provocatively placed on hilltops overlooking Palestinian towns and villages, is one of the biggest causes of Palestinian hatred of Israelis.

www.guardian.co.uk...

Wow, yet another death to Israel propaganda thread. Being that the Muslim world is being so vocal about hating Israel, it only makes sense the Israel would set a military defense along their borders. If Lebanon or Hezbolla launches and attack against Israel on the Northern border, they won't be doing any of people of Gaza any favors, because they will only be pushing Israel to a more intense rushed attack to end the Gaza conflict.

If you think Russia will do anything but profit from Middle Eastern wars, you are kidding yourselves. They have a cemetery where there used to be a school which was brutally destroyed by Muslim terrorists, with the children inside, so I doubt if they have much sympathy for the Muslim desire to destroy Israel.

[edit on 15-1-2009 by poet1b]

Originally posted by golemina
reply to post by grimreaper797

 

Slowly expanding itself?

Hmm....

History would seem to disagree with you GrimReaper797.

I couldn't help but notice... You didn't really answer my question.

Do Israelis have the right to exist?

History would seem to disagree? Heres a map disagree with this.....




I recommend you check up on middle eastern history especially that of Israel because Grim is trying to teach you something that you just cant grasp.

Originally posted by poet1b
If Lebanon or Hezbolla launches and attack against Israel on the Northern border, they won't be doing any of people of Gaza any favors, because they will only be pushing Israel to a more intense rushed attack to end the Gaza conflict.

And israel will only be pushing them towards more millitancy.Hamas and hezbollah were just a group of rag-tag millitants but since israel went on bombing raid in palstine and lebanon these groups have managed to gain soo much power and support that they have toppled their own governments.And the rest of the Arab leaders are crappin their pants cos they know they are going down soon too.The West can expect more ahmadinejads and nasrallahs in future.

If you think Russia will do anything but profit from Middle Eastern wars, you are kidding yourselves. They have a cemetery where there used to be a school which was brutally destroyed by Muslim terrorists, with the children inside, so I doubt if they have much sympathy for the Muslim desire to destroy Israel.

Russia won't forget its 15,000 troops and elite spetz-natz forces who got slaughtered by the afghans armed by US during 1980s.Russia is not japan or vietnam, they don't forget their dead and they will make US pay in one way or another.Indeed russia sees muslims as its enemy but US/israel are its bigger targets.As the US armed muslims to defeat them, they will arm muslims to defeat US.

Dooper, will you get over it when the US is taken over by Canada and Mexico and possibly others? It might be more prudent to see the bigger picture rather than gloating over the suffering of othersespecially those who cannot fight back.

reply to post by tjeffersonsghost


Interesting myopic take.



Like I said (when talking to Grim)... History doesn't agree with you.

>'I recommend you check up on middle eastern history especially that of Israel because Grim is trying to teach you something that you just cant grasp.'

Maybe you should take your own advice big guy...

An honest observer might say...

Do you think you missed a couple of steps...



Maybe you should also look up the word 'genocide'.

And as long as we are at it... throw in the hat trick...

Do YOU think Israelis have the right to exist?



[edit on 15-1-2009 by golemina]

reply to post by golemina


An honest observer may also say, "What's you point"? You have been shown to be incorrect in your research. Care to extrapolate on your points? With links please, like the rest of us did.

reply to post by intrepid


Yo Intrepid!

Don't you have a less intimidating avatar than to come in as Super Moderator, Sir!

Most historians wouldn't take anything captioned something along the lines of genocidexxx.jpg as serious...

Are you?

If you look at the first cell in the map... It's 100% wrong.

So why would anyone, honest observer or not , take any of the rest of it seriouslessly?

My recommendation would be to look at credible historical sites...

Psst... Start with keywords 'british protectorate'.

Hope that helps Intrepid.

Originally posted by golemina
Yo Intrepid!

Don't you have a less intimidating avatar than to come in as Super Moderator, Sir!

That has what to do with the topic? My avatar is Wolverine because he's Canadian, he's tough and he cares. Any time someone comes in with the "moderator" thing, I KNOW that the debate is over.

Most historians wouldn't take anything captioned something along the lines of genocidexxx.jpg as serious...

I have NO idea what you're talking about. My source was The Guardian. A UK site.

My recommendation would be to look at credible historical sites...

Psst... Start with keywords 'british protectorate'.

Hope that helps Intrepid.

Doesn't help at all. I only see obfuscation. Care to elaborate? Can you?

reply to post by intrepid


I try NOT to take myself TOO seriously Intrepid... But I have been run over so many times by Moderators and Super Moderators with bees in their bonnets, that I have learned, albeit slowly , that 'it is' whatever you say 'it is'.

So if is one of those situations make this whole thread say whatever you want it to say.

I'm more than good with it.

But if this is a real discussion...

Then go look on Wiki and you'll see the 'cell' in question doesn't look ANYTHING like that served up. British Protectorate (thru 48 ).

And the 'genocide' thing is on the caption titled 'image source'.

reply to post by magicmushroom


Hey, if Mexico can take over Southern California, then I'm all for it.

And if Canada can take over Maine, Massachusetts, New Jersey, and New York City, hell, I'm all for that. I'd even be for throwing Maryland in on the deal.

If this story is true (Hey, just look at the Hezbollah backing source), I cannot blame Israel One Single Bit. These fools are messing around with a sedated Tiger, one which is already backed into a Corner as is, and will readily defend itself to the Upmost of its ability.

I feel bad for Lebanon, because they have a fairly secular Official Government, and a fairly Secular Military as well. Their only problem however, is that they have allowed for Hezbollah to become entrenched in their Society, and that can spell disaster for their entire Populace.