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The two most important lines on the chart are the 0 percent relative humidity line and the 100 percent relative humidity line. If the atmosphere were colder than the temperature indicated by the 0% line, a contrail would form even if the relative humidity of the atmosphere were zero
Originally posted by doctordoom
reply to post by OzWeatherman
So is the Appleman Chart contradicting Patrick Minnis?
And where is your source, please. I thought that was a
requirement here.
The red line (dash-double dot line) in the Appleman chart shows at what humidities contrails can persist (usually between 60% and 70% relative humidity).
Originally posted by doctordoom
reply to post by OzWeatherman
None of your soundings showing anything close to 60% Rh, except for the one from your baloon, where you observed no contrails at all.
Originally posted by doctordoom
reply to post by OzWeatherman
Again, we are talking about "persistant contrails"
368.0 7648 -41.3 -44.3 73 0.20 195 63 308.5 309.2 308.5
357.0 7854 -42.9 -46.3 69 0.17 197 64 309.0 309.7 309.1
346.0 8063 -44.6 -48.8 62 0.13 200 66 309.6 310.1 309.6
340.0 8179 -45.5 -50.2 59 0.11 198 68 309.8 310.3 309.9
333.0 8317 -46.5 -50.9 61 0.11 195 71 310.3 310.7 310.3
332.0 8337 -46.6 -51.1 60 0.11 195 71 310.4 310.8 310.4
318.0 8620 -48.7 -53.7 56 0.08 198 75 311.4 311.7 311.4
313.0 8724 -48.9 -54.9 49 0.07 199 77 312.5 312.8 312.5
309.0 8808 -49.6 -55.3 51 0.07 200 78 312.6 312.9 312.6
300.0 9000 -51.3 -56.1 56 0.06 200 77 312.9 313.2 312.9
292.0 9174 -52.6 -57.2 57 0.06 195 76 313.5 313.7 313.5
286.0 9308 -53.7 -58.1 58 0.05 195 80 313.9 314.1 313.9
274.0 9584 -55.8 -59.9 60 0.04 200 84 314.6 314.8 314.7
269.0 9703 -56.7 -60.7 60 0.04 206 80 315.0 315.1 315.0
264.0 9823 -56.1 -61.1 53 0.04 211 76 317.6 317.7 317.6
261.0 9896 -56.8 -62.4 49 0.03 215 73 317.5 317.7 317.5
500.0 5210 -29.9 -37.9 46 0.29 296.5 297.6 296.6
434.0 6207 -35.3 -43.3 44 0.19 301.9 302.6 301.9
400.0 6770 -38.9 -43.1 64 0.21 304.4 305.1 304.4
391.0 6926 -40.1 -43.1 73 0.22 304.8 305.6 304.8
371.0 7282 -41.9 -45.4 69 0.18 307.0 307.7 307.0
366.0 7374 -41.7 -50.7 37 0.10 308.4 308.8 308.5
358.0 7523 -42.5 -57.5 18 0.05 309.3 309.5 309.3
Originally posted by CoolBlackHole
These are not contrails but "chemtrails" containing chemicals. They can't possibly be regular contrails because:
Originally posted by defcon5
[The reason that we are seeing persistent contrails in Florida over the last few weeks, is due to the extremely low temperature. Expect to see a lot over the coming weekend as it proceeds to get down near the 30-degree mark. Right now, if I walk outside, I can see my own breath down here.
400.0 7480 -21.9 -25.3 74 1.23 245 77 326.4 330.9 326.7
392.4 7620 -22.9 -26.7 71 1.10 245 80 326.9 331.0 327.1
379.0 7875 -24.7 -29.3 66 0.90 245 81 327.8 331.1 328.0
316.9 9144 -35.1 -39.4 64 0.40 245 85 330.6 332.1 330.7
305.0 9416 -37.3 -41.6 64 0.33 245 84 331.1 332.4 331.2
300.0 9530 -38.3 -42.7 63 0.30 245 83 331.3 332.5 331.3
256.0 10594 -47.3 -50.9 66 0.14 240 89 333.4 333.9 333.4
253.1 10668 -47.9 -51.4 67 0.13 240 89 333.6 334.1 333.6
250.0 10750 -48.5 -52.0 67 0.13 240 90 333.8 334.4 333.9
219.9 11582 -55.9 -60.8 54 0.05 230 95 334.8 335.1 334.9
217.0 11667 -56.7 -61.7 53 0.04 231 95 334.9 335.1 334.9
Originally posted by Heike
"... Anyway, I used to raise birds. Everything from finches to big macaws. And I know how incredibly sensitive they are to gases and airborne contaminants. Remember how they used canaries in the mines before they had sensors? When the canaries dropped dead, the miners still had time to get out ... So, it's really very simple. If there aren't enough "chemicals" in the sky to harm the birds who fly around in it, there aren't enough chemicals in the sky to harm humans. ...
Originally posted by CoolBlackHole
Of course it's SLOW contamination they cause. And you can't diagnose slow chemical poisoning by observing birds.
Source
Birds have a long and successful history of being indicators of environmental health in many ecosystems throughout the world.
Source
Birds are particularly good as environmental indicators because they:
* live in almost every type of environment in Australia and in almost every niche (place or role) within those environments.
* are at the top of the food-chain and are therefore vulnerable to accumulating chemicals ...
Source
And like canaries down the coal mine, he says, birds act as a crucial early-warning system that should alert us to the vulnerability of other plants and animals. ... "In addition, many bird species are valuable environmental indicators, warning us of impending environmental problems."
They become that large due to the introduction of more moisture into the air causing the upper atmopshere to become supersaturated. The more ice supersaturated, the more likely the contrail is to form a layer of cirrostratus. Maybe you should reasearch cloud types and how they form