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Contrails in my neighborhood

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posted on Jan, 14 2009 @ 01:16 PM
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Hello,

While driving home from college this afternoon, I noticed that the sky in my area is filled with airplane contrails. Are these planes are using chemicals or something?









posted on Jan, 14 2009 @ 01:19 PM
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at first..i thought u were in israel...u knw roket thingy..

but seein the third ..didnt seem u were there.



chemicals...dont think so...



posted on Jan, 14 2009 @ 01:22 PM
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Mope they are exactly what you described them as....contrails...condensation trails

Dont worry chemtrails dont exist...and if they did they certainly wouldnt be spraying them that high up



posted on Jan, 14 2009 @ 03:30 PM
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Originally posted by Dan5647

.... Are these planes are using chemicals or something?



Do worry, chemtrails do exist.


These are not contrails but "chemtrails" containing chemicals. They can't possibly be regular contrails because:

- Their volume (and strange 'content') is much larger than the regular contrails' one. Up to about a hundred or more times larger. It's simply preposterous to allege regular contrails could become that big.
- Their dwell time is much longer. While a regular contrail dissolves after a few minutes, chemtrails can linger for up to several hours. Again a huge difference.
- When observed closely chemtrails often have special shapes like curly or rippled edges. This cannot be caused by a mere condensation of water by engine heat (the reason for contrails).
- Chemtrails often abruptly start or end 'out of nowhere' (as can be seen in the third picture), which again does not correspond to contrails. Contrails cannot abruptly start or end as aircrafts don't power their engines off and on during flight (There are rare exceptions like when an aircraft has to shed a part of its fuel, but that's of course only in emergencies).

[edit on 14-1-2009 by CoolBlackHole]



posted on Jan, 14 2009 @ 10:11 PM
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reply to post by CoolBlackHole
 


Excellent comeback.

And yes, even if the spraying was stopped right now, millions are going to die from this.

Ever wonder why flu like symptoms have a million different disease, bacteria explanations?

To hide the truth. We are breathing dust made of metals, mixed with salts, and they are also spraying CO2, under the guise of weather modification. Urea, Ammonium Iodide, Silver Iodide, Barium Salts, Aluminum, Sulpher and others that aren't published are being sprayed world wide.

Soon, all atmospheric scientists will be called to a central area, probably around Boulder, CO, to receive special access to underground fascilities.
Yes, I spelled it like fascism. The same way the trees are dying, the oceans are turning acidic, the bees are disapearing, alzheimers, restless leg syndrome, autism, bipolar disorder, heart disease, cancer, the list is endless, people will die too.

We are in for a rough ride.



posted on Jan, 14 2009 @ 10:17 PM
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Originally posted by OzWeatherman
Mope they are exactly what you described them as....contrails...condensation trails

Dont worry chemtrails dont exist...and if they did they certainly wouldnt be spraying them that high up


I'm amazed at the amount of disinformation on this subject there is from the "experts" on this site.

Just keep this in mind. Your children are breathing it too.



posted on Jan, 14 2009 @ 11:48 PM
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reply to post by doctordoom
 



That's quite a comprehensive list you've compiled there, I don't suppose if I asked for some evidence of your claims you would be able to provide it could you? Oh and please, nothing from rense.com, thanks.

Here's a thread I made regarding a much more plausible explanation as to why some places do have high concentrations of contaminates.
www.abovetopsecret.com...

As for this comment:

Originally posted by doctordoom
Just keep this in mind. Your children are breathing it too.


Why don't you keep in mind that whoever you believe to be involved, their families are breathing it in, they themselves are breathing it in.

Even small animals with much less immunity than humans are breathing it in, are they dropping dead? No!

Here's a couple of exerts from articles that might open yours eyes as to what an airborne poisoning incident actually looks like:


Testing to determine the cause of mass bird deaths in the Esperance area suggests the small number of birds tested died of lead poisoning. Up to 4000 birds were estimated to have died in Esperance between early December and January, and more than 100 bird deaths have been reported in the Esperance townsite this week. Samples of these birds have been submitted for testing.

Article


This was just the beginning it seems, the article goes on to say that the Environmental Health director, Jim Dodds said the Department
had not seen any evidence to suggest the general population has been exposed to a health risk.

It is sad to see just how wrong he was.


ESPERANCE children were exposed to an invisible chemical attack on their vulnerable bodies because government agencies - who were meant to protect them - failed to heed their own advice. On the eve of today's parliamentary inquiry into lead contamination that resulted in 4000-plus birds falling dead from the sky, The Sunday Times revealed a litany of oversights that may have resulted in irreparable damage to the health of infants in the town. Adults also have been exposed to highly toxic lead and nickel dust blown from the town's port, but it is the effect on young children that is causing the most angst. Lower levels of lead exposure can affect a child's mental and physical growth.

Article


[edit on 14-1-2009 by Chadwickus]



posted on Jan, 15 2009 @ 03:57 PM
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Originally posted by CoolBlackHole
- Their volume (and strange 'content') is much larger than the regular contrails' one. Up to about a hundred or more times larger. It's simply preposterous to allege regular contrails could become that big.


They become that large due to the introduction of more moisture into the air causing the upper atmopshere to become supersaturated. The more ice supersaturated, the more likely the contrail is to form a layer of cirrostratus. Maybe you should reasearch cloud types and how they form



- Their dwell time is much longer. While a regular contrail dissolves after a few minutes, chemtrails can linger for up to several hours. Again a huge difference.


Agian, you are wrong. Same principle as above, the introduction of more moisture into the air causes the atmopshere to become supersaturated causing the formation of cirrostratus



- When observed closely chemtrails often have special shapes like curly or rippled edges. This cannot be caused by a mere condensation of water by engine heat (the reason for contrails).


Sigh, you obviously did not take physics, chemistry and you have no knowledge of how meterological mechanisms work do you.

The shapes, curly or whatever are caused by high upper level winds, sometimes in excess of 100 knots. So of course they are not going to stay at the same shape



- Chemtrails often abruptly start or end 'out of nowhere' (as can be seen in the third picture), which again does not correspond to contrails. Contrails cannot abruptly start or end as aircrafts don't power their engines off and on during flight (There are rare exceptions like when an aircraft has to shed a part of its fuel, but that's of course only in emergencies).


No, engines can be turned off during flight, but thats not the issue in this case. The atmopshere does not remain at a constant temperature across the entire area, nor does it remain with the same humidity levels. Contrails appear to stop when the aircraft hits a dry patch of air, causing it to appear as if something is switched off



posted on Jan, 15 2009 @ 03:59 PM
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Originally posted by doctordoom
I'm amazed at the amount of disinformation on this subject there is from the "experts" on this site.

Just keep this in mind. Your children are breathing it too.


Its not disinoformation

Its just that 99% of the people that claim chemtrails exist dont know a thing about how the atmospheric mechanisms work and just believe what they read on sites such as Rense. Its called being gullible



posted on Jan, 15 2009 @ 04:06 PM
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reply to post by CoolBlackHole
 


You might care to learn a bit about what contrails are, how they form and how they behave before posting some ignornat nonsense


www.faa.gov...

They've been observed since the 1920s and well studied since WWII. We can even forecast where and when they'll be most likely to form

www-pm.larc.nasa.gov...

The idea that what you see are chenmtrails is an early internet hoax that sadly still continues despite nil evidence to support it. But as Barnum said, there's one born every day .....



posted on Jan, 15 2009 @ 04:08 PM
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Originally posted by OzWeatherman

Its just that 99% of the people that claim chemtrails exist dont know a thing about how the atmospheric mechanisms work and just believe what they read on sites such as Rense. Its called being gullible


And even Rense has this disclaimer:


Disclaimer - The posting of stories, commentaries, reports, documents and links (embedded or otherwise) on this site does not in any way, shape or form, implied or otherwise, necessarily express or suggest endorsement or support of any of such posted material or parts therein.

The myriad of facts, conjecture, perspectives, viewpoints, opinions, analyses, and information in the articles, stories and commentaries posted on this site range from cutting edge hard news and comment to extreme and unusual perspectives. We choose not to sweep uncomfortable material under the rug - where it can grow and fester. We choose not to censor skewed logic and uncomfortable rhetoric. These things reflect the world as it now is - for better and worse. We present multiple facts, perspectives, viewpoints, opinions, analyses, and information.

Journalism is (or used to be) the profession of gathering and presenting a broad panorama of news about the events of our times and presenting it to readers for their own consideration. We believe in the intelligence, judgment and wisdom of our readers to discern for themselves among the data which appears on this site that which is valid and worthy...or otherwise.


At bottom of page;
www.rense.com...



posted on Jan, 15 2009 @ 04:11 PM
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For comparison, normal contrails:








posted on Jan, 15 2009 @ 04:12 PM
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Originally posted by OzWeatherman

...Its just that 99% of the people that claim chemtrails exist dont know a thing about how the atmospheric mechanisms work...


and you do?

Edit: Having a meteorologist as a friend, he keeps me well informed. By the by, contrails don't stay in the sky longer than 45 minutes with any atmospheric condition.

[edit on 15-1-2009 by Sliick]



posted on Jan, 15 2009 @ 04:19 PM
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Originally posted by Sliick
and you do?

Edit: Having a meteorologist as a friend, he keeps me well informed. By the by, contrails don't stay in the sky longer than 45 minutes with any atmospheric condition.

[edit on 15-1-2009 by Sliick]


Well your friend must be a self appointed meteorologist because one of the major things you need to know about upper atmospheric phenomemen, is the persistance of contrails for forecasting purposes


Or maybe you're confused, when a contrail last up to 30 minutes its considered as a persistant contrail, and thus reported as cirrus cloud, or cirrostratus if it has spread across the sky.

Or maybe you're just fibbing

contrailscience.com...



posted on Jan, 15 2009 @ 04:40 PM
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Those are normal.
I live near an airport, planes fly over my house a lot. I see those often.
I'm guessing it's just the exhaust fumes and gas.



posted on Jan, 15 2009 @ 06:39 PM
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Originally posted by OzWeatherman

Originally posted by doctordoom
I'm amazed at the amount of disinformation on this subject there is from the "experts" on this site.



Its not disinoformation

Its just that 99% of the people that claim chemtrails exist dont know a thing about how the atmospheric mechanisms work and just believe what they read on sites such as Rense. Its called being gullible


Using the Appleman Chart


I challenge you to find me one sounding in the US where conditions exist, where a contrail MIGHT form. Keep in mind, the Appleman is almost 100% accurate in predicting when contrails WON'T form, and about 35% accurate when contrails do form, meaning contrails are even rarer than the Appleman Chart suggests.

Here, I'll give you the link for the sounding information. Pick a place, any place
weather.uwyo.edu...

One doesn't need to have a piece of paper saying one is an atmospheric scientist
to interpret the data. It's not really that tough.

[edit on 15-1-2009 by doctordoom]



posted on Jan, 15 2009 @ 08:04 PM
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While I'm waiting for a response from my last post, I would like to show you a news article I found.



L.A. County hopes to fend off drought with cloud-seeding program

By Deborah Schoch
June 16, 2008

Hoping to wring water from the skies, a parched Los Angeles County plans to launch an $800,000 cloud-seeding project in the San Gabriel Mountains that officials believe will boost rainfall and raise the levels of local reservoirs.

The project, which will rely on injecting clouds with silver iodide particles, has won county supervisors’ backing and is slated to begin this winter.
...
To have them be in the right place at the right time, that’s where it gets really complicated,” said scientist Daniel W. Breed, who studies cloud physics and precipitation at the National Center for Atmospheric Research, a federally funded center in Boulder, Colo.
...
Yet the phones are ringing at the offices of so-called weather modification firms that use airplanes or ground-based generators to spray silver iodide above mountains and watersheds, typically on contract to public agencies.

articles.latimes.com...


[edit on 15-1-2009 by doctordoom]



posted on Jan, 15 2009 @ 08:20 PM
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reply to post by doctordoom
 


Here you go...




373.0 7266 -42.6 -49.5 47 0.11 185 67 305.5 306.0 305.6
370.3 7315 -43.1 -49.8 47 0.11 185 67 305.6 306.0 305.6
353.7 7620 -45.6 -51.7 51 0.09 180 66 306.2 306.5 306.2
328.0 8124 -49.9 -54.7 57 0.07 180 62 307.0 307.3 307.0
312.0 8451 -46.9 -57.9 27 0.05 180 59 315.6 315.8 315.6
300.0 8710 -47.1 -63.1 14 0.03 180 57 318.9 319.0 318.9
292.0 8889 -47.9 -66.9 9 0.02 180 56 320.2 320.3 320.2
280.9 9144 -48.7 -68.2 9 0.01 180 55 322.6 322.7 322.6
256.0 9754 -50.6 -71.3 7 0.01 170 62 328.5 328.5 328.5


-47.9 at 292Hpa

Right on the borderline of "always contrails"

And



400.0 6610 -50.7 -64.7 17 0.02 340 54 289.0 289.1 289.0
341.7 7620 -55.2 -68.5 17 0.01 340 57 296.2 296.3 296.2
313.0 8182 -57.7 -70.7 18 0.01 340 54 300.2 300.3 300.2
300.0 8450 -57.7 -76.7 7 0.00 340 55 303.9 303.9 303.9
268.7 9144 -57.6 -74.2 10 0.01 335 55 313.8 313.8 313.8
250.0 9600 -57.5 -72.5 13 0.01 335 56 320.4 320.5 320.5
211.1 10668 -57.6 -74.9 9 0.01 335 65 336.1 336.1 336.1
200.0 11010 -57.7 -75.7 8 0.01 335 68 341.2 341.3 341.2


And


300.0 8420 -62.3 -72.3 25 0.01 5 78 297.4 297.4 297.4
299.0 8441 -62.3 -72.3 25 0.01 5 78 297.7 297.7 297.7
266.9 9144 -62.3 -73.0 22 0.01 0 76 307.5 307.6 307.5
257.0 9378 -62.3 -73.3 22 0.01 0 79 310.9 310.9 310.9
254.0 9451 -61.1 -73.1 19 0.01 0 80 313.7 313.7 313.7
250.0 9550 -61.3 -73.3 19 0.01 0 81 314.8 314.8 314.8
237.0 9880 -62.7 -76.7 14 0.00 0 82 317.5 317.6 317.5
222.0 10284 -60.5 -76.5 11 0.01 0 84 326.9 326.9 326.9
208.7 10668 -61.7 -79.5 8 0.00 0 85 330.9 330.9 330.9
200.0 10930 -62.5 -81.5 6 0.00 355 80 333.6 333.6 333.6
183.0 11476 -64.1 -83.1 6 0.00 359 84 339.6 339.6 339.6
179.9 11582 -63.5 -82.7 6 0.00 0 85 342.3 342.3 342.3


And



454.0 5870 -43.7 -56.7 22 0.04 325 53 287.5 287.7 287.5
438.8 6096 -45.0 -58.3 21 0.03 325 54 288.6 288.8 288.6
400.0 6710 -48.7 -62.7 18 0.02 325 58 291.6 291.7 291.6
382.0 7011 -50.7 -63.7 20 0.02 325 60 292.9 292.9 292.9
368.0 7253 -50.7 -63.7 20 0.02 325 62 296.0 296.1 296.0
347.7 7620 -53.2 -65.6 21 0.02 325 65 297.4 297.5 297.4
338.0 7802 -54.5 -66.5 21 0.01 323 64 298.1 298.1 298.1
317.0 8210 -55.9 -67.9 21 0.01 320 63 301.7 301.7 301.7
300.0 8560 -56.1 -68.1 21 0.01 320 64 306.2 306.2 306.2
285.0 8888 -54.5 -66.5 21 0.02 317 67 313.0 313.1 313.0
274.0 9141 -54.7 -66.7 21 0.02 315 69 316.2 316.3 316.2
273.9 9144 -54.7 -66.7 21 0.02 315 69 316.3 316.4 316.3


Shall I keep going?

And for reference, here is my balloon from this morning



516.0 5601 -3.7 -5.2 89 5.06 0 0 325.5 342.5 326.5
507.0 5740 -2.9 -8.9 63 3.87 70 2 328.1 341.4 328.9
500.0 5850 -3.3 -11.3 54 3.24 125 4 328.9 340.2 329.6
473.0 6287 -6.7 -10.1 77 3.77 157 6 330.0 343.1 330.8
441.0 6832 -8.9 -28.9 18 0.80 198 8 333.9 337.0 334.1
421.0 7189 -11.3 -24.3 33 1.28 225 10 335.3 340.1 335.5
407.0 7448 -13.1 -23.4 41 1.43 245 11 336.3 341.6 336.6
405.0 7486 -13.3 -23.3 43 1.45 244 11 336.4 341.9 336.7
400.0 7580 -14.1 -25.1 39 1.25 240 12 336.6 341.3 336.8
384.0 7889 -16.3 -28.9 33 0.92 220 10 337.6 341.1 337.8
380.0 7968 -16.9 -29.9 31 0.85 218 10 337.9 341.1 338.0
375.0 8067 -17.5 -21.7 70 1.81 216 10 338.3 345.1 338.7
369.0 8188 -18.5 -21.9 75 1.81 213 10 338.6 345.3 338.9
364.0 8289 -19.2 -22.3 77 1.77 210 10 338.9 345.5 339.3
339.0 8816 -23.1 -24.4 89 1.57 127 11 340.6 346.5 340.9
330.0 9011 -24.7 -26.6 84 1.32 95 12 341.1 346.1 341.4


As you can see, we have no contrails today



posted on Jan, 15 2009 @ 08:55 PM
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reply to post by OzWeatherman
 


Are you aware the NASA scientist Patrick Minnis states



If Rhi < 100%, contrails can
form but will not persist.

www-pm.larc.nasa.gov...
(page 5, right hand column right below the chart.

So here we have a top NASA scientist stating that IF Relative Humidity (Rhi)
is below (< = less than) 100% contrails can form but will not persist.

Not one of your soundings produced 100% or above Rhi. Not even close. For example your first sounding at 292Hpa, shows a relative humidity of 9%. Pretty dry air, don't ya think?

373.0 7266 -42.6 -49.5 47 0.11 185 67 305.5 306.0 305.6
370.3 7315 -43.1 -49.8 47 0.11 185 67 305.6 306.0 305.6
353.7 7620 -45.6 -51.7 51 0.09 180 66 306.2 306.5 306.2
328.0 8124 -49.9 -54.7 57 0.07 180 62 307.0 307.3 307.0
312.0 8451 -46.9 -57.9 27 0.05 180 59 315.6 315.8 315.6
300.0 8710 -47.1 -63.1 14 0.03 180 57 318.9 319.0 318.9
292.0 8889 -47.9 -66.9 9 0.02 180 56 320.2 320.3 320.2
280.9 9144 -48.7 -68.2 9 0.01 180 55 322.6 322.7 322.6
256.0 9754 -50.6 -71.3 7 0.01 170 62 328.5 328.5 328.5

5th column over is Rhi

Chemtrails are explained as persistant contrails. We need 100% or above for that to happen.

Now, how many times have you seen that happen?


[edit on 15-1-2009 by doctordoom]



posted on Jan, 15 2009 @ 09:09 PM
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reply to post by doctordoom
 

Column 5 is RH (Relative Humidity with respect to liquid water). RHi (Relative Humidity with respect to ice) is not in the sounding data and is the value which Minnis is referring to. Perhaps you should read the paper a bit more carefully.

[edit on 1/15/2009 by Phage]



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